OT: kelly sutherland beef with Canucks?

[Bourne Endeavor]

I think a lot of Canuck fans need to watch the other playoff series. The officiating has been absolutely brutal for everyone. There isn't a big conspiracy against the Canucks at work.

This. Believe me, I witnessed two ******** calls on both my teams last night that cost them games. Ottawa got away with absolute murder against Montreal. Game one between Minnesota and Chicago was so laughably bad on officiating both sides at four blatantly wrong calls half way through.

The officiating has been joke all season. There is no Canucks conspiracy.

 

[The Optimist]

To be fair, we were much more undisciplined than the Sharks, this was obvious. I don't know to the extent of the penalties, but we deserved to get more calls against us.

bad calls happen, I don't buy a conspiracy

There were countless penalties that were iffy. Raymond 'crosscheck", Hamhuis 'hook', Bieksa 'crosscheck', Sedin 'faceoff violation', Sedin 'board', and the Weise call was borderline (looked like more of a dive to me).

The Sharks looked more disciplined because
A) they got called for less borderline infractions
and
B) They dove more making the Canucks look worse.

 

[vanuck]

If you can call Lapierre's "goalie interference" - where he was pushed into Niemi - an example of indiscipline, then yeah we weren't disciplined... Keep in mind we were called for that several times this season where it wasn't our fault.

 

[luongo321]

This. Believe me, I witnessed two ******** calls on both my teams last night that cost them games. Ottawa got away with absolute murder against Montreal. Game one between Minnesota and Chicago was so laughably bad on officiating both sides at four blatantly wrong calls half way through.

The officiating has been joke all season. There is no Canucks conspiracy.

Yes, there was a bias against the Canucks in this series. I don't know why people keep defending the officiating in this series. Those refs must be killing themselves laughing on the inside. I've watched as many playoff games as I can this postseason. The consistent one-sided bias is nowhere to be seen in any other series.

 

[mrmyheadhurts]

Yes, the officiating has been poor in all the series but are any of the others even close in terms of discrepancy between the teams?

I've seen a ton of bad calls this playoffs but they seem to even themselves out a bit, which quite frankly, is exactly what I was expecting to happen in the Canucks series but never did.

 

[vanuck]

Is officiating the reason why we lost? No. But it sure as **** doesn't make the loss any easier to swallow when practically every marginal call went in favour of the Sharks.

On top of that, the refs were just plain incompetent too.

You don't even have to look back past this regular season to know we consistently weren't getting the benefit of the doubt. Deserved reputation or no, you can't deny the team was trying to clean up its image and it still didn't work. Hence the frustration.

This is an issue for MG to go over with the head of officiating.

 

[604]

I think we have to get rid of Burrows...we are never going to get away from the incident with Auger with him on the team.

Burrows complaining:

Ron McLean on Burrows: – where McLean basically puts words into Burrow’s mouth and goes out of his way to try and destroy the guy – kind of long…first quote is the best part (don’t watch the whole thing – it’s a waste of time, they go on to show every “bad†incident Burrows has ever had after the most boring conversation ever

Ron MacLean on Burrows again: – starts @2:00…@3:40 it’s pretty funny between McLean and Cherry

McLean “apologizes†on Burrows: – This really makes me think the Canucks have a problem with the referee community as McLean doesn’t really apologize

I honestly believe that McLean is connected to the referrees around the league and his feelings are likely shared by a large portion of the referee community. This NHL isn't the NFL where things are fair, it's a bush league that has zero accountability with it's refs.

 

[Dado]

I don't know why people keep defending the officiating in this series.

Nobody is defending the officiating. People are saying there is a difference between incompetence and conspiracy.

Bottom line: the Canucks weren't screwed out of anything, the better team won.

 

[mrmyheadhurts]

OK, this Kevin Kyro guy is full of crap.

Sharks: 36:16 PP time
Canucks: 15:36 PP time

The discrepancy is not 30, it's closer to 20 which makes me wonder about the rest of his research. I might have to do some research of my own tonight.

Source is NHL.com:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.ht...etail.powerplaySeconds&viewName=powerPlayTime

 

[Cogburn]

Just claim he sexually harassed the Sedins to get him away from the team. Easy peasy.

As for the Burrows/Auger thing, if we just don't sign an agreement with CBC (hint hint new manager), we won't have to listen to their sexist racist dinosaur and his malevolent lapdog any more in the middle of our games.

 

[CherryToke]

Do you guys really think that differential is a coincidence or deserved... of course not.

That reffing was years of embellishing, calling out a ref by name, the Auger thing, Mike Gillis presser about having a ''fair playing field'' we constantly feud with refs and whine to the media and dive all over the place.

We finally got it handed to us.

whining to the refs has been part of the game since its existence. If they cant handle it professionally , they shouldnt be professional refs. I think it goes deeper than just whining..

its personal with Sutherland and maybe others too. They dont belong in the league. They are like crooked cops.

 

[vanuck]

OK, this Kevin Kyro guy is full of crap.

Sharks: 36:16 PP time
Canucks: 15:36 PP time

The discrepancy is not 30, it's closer to 20 which makes me wonder about the rest of his research. I might have to do some research of my own tonight.

Source is NHL.com:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.ht...etail.powerplaySeconds&viewName=powerPlayTime

Huh, thanks for that. I'll have to look more into it too then.

Edit: Still by far the largest discrepancy out of all the series so far. Next closest would seem to be STL-LA at 8:11 for the Blues and MIN-CHI at 8:05 in favour of the Wild.

 

[Timmer44]

OK, this Kevin Kyro guy is full of crap.

Sharks: 36:16 PP time
Canucks: 15:36 PP time

The discrepancy is not 30, it's closer to 20 which makes me wonder about the rest of his research. I might have to do some research of my own tonight.

Source is NHL.com:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.ht...etail.powerplaySeconds&viewName=powerPlayTime

PP time doesn't equal pp opportunities.

 

[StringerBell]

OK, this Kevin Kyro guy is full of crap.

Sharks: 36:16 PP time
Canucks: 15:36 PP time

The discrepancy is not 30, it's closer to 20 which makes me wonder about the rest of his research. I might have to do some research of my own tonight.

Source is NHL.com:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.ht...etail.powerplaySeconds&viewName=powerPlayTime

I imagine he got 30 from the PP differential. It was 25-10 right? Obviously neither team used all their PP time, which accounts for the difference in potential PP time he seems to be using.

 

[mrmyheadhurts]

Huh, thanks for that. I'll have to look more into it too then.

Edit: Still by far the largest discrepancy out of all the series so far. Next closest would seem to be STL-LA at 8:11 for the Blues and MIN-CHI at 8:05 in favour of the Wild.

Absolutely, it just throws into doubt that guys claim that it's an NHL record because he couldn't even get the basic numbers right.

PP time doesn't equal pp opportunities.

You're right, PP time is actually a much fairer representation. You could get a PP and then say, get a garbage penalty for gloving the puck off the draw, and negate the PP after 4 seconds. Still counts as an 0 for 1 on the scoresheet but it hardly represents equal opportunity. Conversely you could convert early too. Neither measurement does justice to the whole picture I suppose.

It could've been the way he worded it that confused me.

If you just add up penalty minutes, the discrepancy is 24. If you look at PP opportunities, the discrepancy is 6.

I still don't know what he's referencing when he says there is a 30min differential.

 

[Jack Tripper]

i guess when you're the first team out of the playoffs for the second year in a row you have to talk about something

 

[mrmyheadhurts]

i guess when you're the first team out of the playoffs for the second year in a row you have to talk about something

Pretty much.

 

[BoHorvatFan]

whining to the refs has been part of the game since its existence. If they cant handle it professionally , they shouldnt be professional refs. I think it goes deeper than just whining..

its personal with Sutherland and maybe others too. They dont belong in the league. They are like crooked cops.

No team has had as many feuds with the refs in public as we have over the last 5 years. Ever since MR. Entitled Mike Gillis took over, guess it's easy to be that way when everything is handed to you(an entire core that's still here, a coach for 5 years, two number 1 goalies, 20 million in cap space off the bat) but since Gillis came is we whine, we dive, we complain we name refs in public. It has caught up to us. The whole, poor us, everyone is against us act got old. The Bruins are mean! The league is giving LA goals off their feet that shouldn't count! Ron Maclean is mean we won't talk to him! Auger threatened me! The refs are giving the Hawks an advantage! Sutherland is mean! come on it doesn't end!

 

[604]

Just claim he sexually harassed the Sedins to get him away from the team. Easy peasy.

As for the Burrows/Auger thing, if we just don't sign an agreement with CBC (hint hint new manager), we won't have to listen to their sexist racist dinosaur and his malevolent lapdog any more in the middle of our games.

The problem is, CBC is the only way most Canadians (and most NHL referees) see our team.

We have a terrible reputation and honestly I'm quite sure some refs have Auger's back after the incident.

We got screwed in the finals, we got screwed in these playoffs.

I know it's not fair, and I don't want to trade Burrows but part of me believes we need to move him to get away from this stuff...possibly Lapierre and Bieksa too.

Moving all those guys in one off-season might help us with referees in the future.

 

[CherryToke]

No team has had as many feuds with the refs in public as we have over the last 5 years. Ever since MR. Entitled Mike Gillis took over, guess it's easy to be that way when everything is handed to you(an entire core that's still here, a coach for 5 years, two number 1 goalies, 20 million in cap space off the bat) but since Gillis came is we whine, we dive, we complain we name refs in public. It has caught up to us. The whole, poor us, everyone is against us act got old. The Bruins are mean! The league is giving LA goals off their feet that shouldn't count! Ron Maclean is mean we won't talk to him! Auger threatened me! The refs are giving the Hawks an advantage! Sutherland is mean! come on it doesn't end!

then why is it so easy to single out Sutherland.. shouldnt all the refs be treating them like ****? he takes it too far and deserves to lose his job because of it. That is all I ask. If I cheat customers in my profession, I expect to be fired as well.

 

[604]

then why is it so easy to single out Sutherland.. shouldnt all the refs be treating them like ****? he takes it too far and deserves to lose his job because of it. That is all I ask. If I cheat customers in my profession, I expect to be fired as well.

Nothing is going to happen to Sutherland...he's one of the leagues favorite officials and reffed in the 2010 and 2011 finals.

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/lifestyle/the-performer-kelly-sutherland-referee/

It's obvious that the referees are a community that we have offended. We can keep fighting the good fight but it would be a losing battle every time. Maybe we should hire Kerry Fraser as a special advisor.

 

[I in the Eye]

i guess when you're the first team out of the playoffs for the second year in a row you have to talk about something

I agree... and I don't believe there's a conspiracy against the Canucks, but when you found out that Sutherland was going to be the ref before the game started, did you think that the Canucks would have an uphill battle in game 4?

I did, many posters here did... I was quiet about my prediction (I didn't post it)... Posters here did (it's time-stamped)...

There's something wrong with that, IMO... As a fan, you shouldn't be able to predict an uphill battle in a game based on the ref that is going to be calling the game...

That overtime penalty on Daniel was just a bad call, IMO... I think that SJ fans would be angry if it was one of their players penalized there... I didn't see any consultation with the refs and linesmen about what happened there (maybe there was, but I don't recall)... A boarding penalty is pretty serious... The timing of that penalty was pretty serious... I've seen consultations amongst on-ice officials for much less, at least critical times... Sutherland wasn't even the closest ref to the play...

Reffing isn't the reason why the Canucks lost... The Canucks lost because SJ has an excellent powerplay, and the Canucks penalty killing consistently wasn't good enough to hold the powerplay off... I'd say that the Canucks powerplay would have been an important contributing factor, but really, there wasn't enough PP opportunities to really guage how much of a let down the powerplay was or not, IMO... Lack of discipline... There were many legit calls (over the 4 games) that were correctly called... They were penalties, so, it's fair enough to call them... SJ got many more breaks from doing rulebook illiegal things, but, that's the breaks... Many of the calls against the Canucks were penalties...

Going into the game, many predicted that the Canucks penalty killing needed to be very good, not only because the Sharks powerplay is outstanding, but because Sutherland was reffing, so there would be more penalties against the Canucks, then there would be against the Sharks...

Regardless of the reason why, this is a fact... It was predicted that Sutherland would make questionable calls against the Canucks, and he did... He regularly does, to the point that it's noticable... He will again in the future... Is it attributed to just being human? To random chance? To Canuck hatred? I don't know... We can all reasonably predict, though, that Sutherland will make questionable calls against the Canucks in the future... That games where Sutherland is reffing, the opposing team is likely to have more powerplay opportunities... The coaching staff and players should adjust appropriately armed with this knowledge...

 

[BoHorvatFan]

then why is it so easy to single out Sutherland.. shouldnt all the refs be treating them like ****? he takes it too far and deserves to lose his job because of it. That is all I ask. If I cheat customers in my profession, I expect to be fired as well.

I don't think we ever get the calls TBH. Doesn't matter who is reffing the games we will get no benefit of the doubt, Sedins can be mugged out there it doesn't matter. We brought it on ourselves though so it's hard to complain.

 

[Dado]

The problem is, CBC is the only way most Canadians (and most NHL referees) see our team.

That, and animated gifs of Kesler tumbleweeding down the ice.

 

[J Canuck]

I wonder how many more times we're going to get 2 minutes for that 1 barrel roll.