Confirmed with Link: Kassian Signs - 4 Years, 3.2M Per

[Czechboy]

7th most minutes? Is he suppose to take PK minutes away from defensemen? lol

I honestly can't tell if you're trolling or just reaching incredibly hard.

I honestly don't know how I can lay it out any clearer... I used last years stats and results and this years stats and results. He's never been a good PKer. He's currently not a PKer. This is not a skill he brings to the team. It never was.

 

[McDNicks17]

I honestly don't know how I can lay it out any clearer... I used last years stats and results and this years stats and results. He's never been a good PKer. He's currently not a PKer. This is not a skill he brings to the team. It never was.

You've established he was playing second unit minutes and that the PK was bad last year, but neither prove he's a bad PKer.

RNH was getting brutalized on the PK last year. His PK GA/60 was almost triple what it is this year. The PK improvement is far from just a change in players.


He has a history of quality PKing. It's likely something he won't do while playing with McDavid since his line is almost always on the ice right after a PK, but if he ends up in the bottom six in a year or two, it's absolutely something he can do.

 

[Drivesaitl]

7th most minutes? Is he suppose to take PK minutes away from defensemen? lol

I honestly can't tell if you're trolling or just reaching incredibly hard.

This is unwarranted comment. The poster is making his position reasonably clear. That Kassian is not currently a regular pk player, and that when he's been on the unit theres scant evidence of him being a good to great pk player, which is what was attributed to him as a false value.

Its interesting if anything that the pk has been better with Kassian playing less of a part on it.

Where is the proof Kass is currently a good pk player and that this is part of his incumbent value for duration of THIS contract?

He's not even f***ing playing, due to multiple suspensions, and if anything it seems that the propping up of some specious value at that time could be considered reaching.

Wow, lets all support the inherent *value* of Zach Kassian when he finds the stupidest way to bail on the team during the worst possible time and we can't even have him in the lineup.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The 'everyone loves him' is a narrative. Have you ever heard a player come out and bash a teamate on the Oil?

You said he was a good PK guy. I just wanted to make it real clear. He doesn't PK at all anymore. So that isn't a strength or an asset anymore.

Versatility means he can do many things. He only does ONE thing... play 5 on 5. That's his versatility. Zack can play 5 on 5 in 2019/2020. Can't help on the powerplay. Can't help on the penalty kill. Doesn't take faceoffs. Doesn't play OT. Doesn't do shootouts.

Just 5 on 5.

With McDavid he does well (if he didn't get suspended all the time, he may have gotten 50 points), without McDavid he gets around 25 points (9 years of proof).

That's not versatile. That's 1 dimensional.

I've already said I didn't want magic beans for him. I'm not sure why you refereence awful trades as a counter to something I said? I said his value was high and we should've traded him (or packaged him) for an actual Top 6 forward that can help us.

Top 6 production is something Kassian has never delivered away from McDavid. I have 10 years of proof to show he can't get more than 25 points away from the best player in the game (in his prime).

Also, he's 30 next year and on the decline.

I feel like everyone that talks about his ilk and versatility are talking about face punching.

Also, you never answer my questions... Tell me about Zack's speed again... behind McDavid or ahead of Gagner? Where does he fit. Because I keep hearing about how fast he is. I would describe him as 'not slow and about 12th on the roster in terms of speed. Where do you have him?

Yep. I've made the comment several times that McD had very good and nice things to say about Brandon Manning. Quite clearly such comments from players, about other players on the team, mean very little on a team sport. Nobody disses their team mates or says anything unflattering.

Anyway several very good posts on the thread, thanks for your continued contributions.

 

[Drivesaitl]

No fighting in the playoffs (or the Olympics). Name all the smashmouth guys that played key roles on the last few Stanley Cup Champions? There is a reason there aren't many Kassians around anymore.

Here I somewhat disagree. Big physical guys that can play still are features of SC clubs. Wilson played a pretty significant role in the Caps Win. He was dominating physically and one of the hardest players to play against in the playoffs. But in no way should the skill level of Kassian be compared to such a player. Maroon is more of a comparable but Kass is not at that level either. Maroon had a pretty insignificant role last SC playoffs I would say.

This is somewhat disconnected but in the playoffs there can be some value in a player on the bench that helps keep the club balanced, level, and not panicking or getting off its game. Patrick Maroon is such a guy and further to why a team like Tampa would just take a run having him.

But overall I agree with your points. There is a vastly decreasing role for the Lucic's, the Kassians of the league and if you can't play, you don't play, or less minutes, and far less value. Kassian as you say is only ever a production forward playing with McDrai. Even when Drai was removed from that line and Kass was playing witha best player in hockey, he couldn't support offense. Kass was benefitting from two superstars in the game to bag points. Anybody like Archibald can step into that role.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I'm pretty sure I've given a few reasons why it was a bad signing at the team... age, point production, had a high trade value a month ago, not effective away from McDavid, term, cap hit. The fact he's gotten 2 point since and is about to be suspended is just cherry on the cake. I even posted an article I wrote about it on here which also has stats and links. But okay, it's cause I said so. Enjoy your drive. Look forward to talking about this in 4 years.

Your stats and links which you wrote about don’t make your opinion any more valid than mine.

If I had the time and inclination I could write a blog nobody else would read either at how the contract is a fair price at below average NHL dollars for an average NHL player who brings qualities to the game highly valued by NHL execs, coaches and it’s star players and use quotes, stats and links to support my opinion.

In the end the contract was signed less than two weeks ago and he will not be defined by objective fans or bloggers alike by those two weeks and this unfortunate suspension.

To say he should have been traded is simple pie in the sky reaching. For what return? At what loss? For someone who doesn’t have the pulse of the team, locker room or Holland’s trading partners you simply do not have the Answer to an invalid question.

If you are going keep patting yourself on the back over how well your article aged then keep knocking yourself out. I believe his contract and worth over that time span will prove to be good value and money well spent.

Time will tell. Not two weeks.

 

[McDNicks17]

This is unwarranted comment. The poster is making his position reasonably clear. That Kassian is not currently a regular pk player, and that when he's been on the unit theres scant evidence of him being a good to great pk player, which is what was attributed to him as a false value.

Its interesting if anything that the pk has been better with Kassian playing less of a part on it.

Where is the proof Kass is currently a good pk player and that this is part of his incumbent value for duration of THIS contract?

He's not even ****ing playing, due to multiple suspensions, and if anything it seems that the propping up of some specious value at that time could be considered reaching.

Wow, lets all support the inherent *value* of Zach Kassian when he finds the stupidest way to bail on the team during the worst possible time and we can't even have him in the lineup.

Is it wrong to expect more evidence than "he played less minutes than four defensemen" and "the PK was bad last year" when someone is so staunchly against something that's easily seen in a couple simple stats?

Kassian was on the ice for 20% of the PK goals against last year. There's an obvious bias if you're blaming him for the sole difference in this and last year's PKs.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Is it wrong to expect more evidence than "he played less minutes than four defensemen" and "the PK was bad last year" when someone is so staunchly against something that's easily seen in a couple simple stats?

Kassian was on the ice for 20% of the PK goals against last year. There's an obvious bias if you're blaming him for the sole difference in this and last year's PKs.

I think you're reading selectively into the comments and posts which were certainly well explained posts and I would wish for more of those here. Its unfortunate that you would coin such posts as trolling.

Because you shouldn't.

The pk was not even a prominent point made by the poster. To the contrary the poster was seemingly suggesting that the talking Kass up for his pk acumen was fairly irrevelant as its not known to be current or continued value.

Agree or disagree I prefer that posters at least expand on their points here. Something that occurs less frequently here. Why discourage such comments?

 

[McDNicks17]

I think you're reading selectively into the comments and posts which were certainly well explained posts and I would wish for more of those here. Its unfortunate that you would coin such posts as trolling.

Because you shouldn't.

Agree or disagree I prefer that posters at least expand on their points here. Something that occurs less frequently here.

When someone includes defensemen in TOI rankings to make him look worse, they've gone past the point of arguing in good faith.

 

[Drivesaitl]

When someone includes defensemen in TOI rankings to make him look worse, they've gone past the point of arguing in good faith.

That would be your opinion. That is not a fact. You chose to view it that way when the poster in question has made several quite good posts and that are arguably better than 90% of what gets posted here. Why anybody would want to discourage such posting with unfair reference to trolling is beyond me.

Anybody could just as easily say that you are not conducting the exchange in good faith because you are looking only at the one point and throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I mean we can find some point of disagreement in everything anybody states right?

cheers

 

[McDNicks17]

That would be your opinion. That is not a fact. You chose to view it that way when the poster in question has made several quite good posts and that are arguably better than 90% of what gets posted here. Why anybody would want to discourage such posting with unfair reference to trolling is beyond me.

Anybody could just as easily say that you are not conducting the exchange in good faith because you are looking only at the one point and throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I mean we can find some point of disagreement in everything anybody states right?

cheers

I doubt you'd think it was a "quite good post" if I were to make the argument Drai is a second line player because he's 4th in ice time behind Nurse, Klefbom and Bear.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I doubt you'd think it was a "quite good post" if I were to make the argument Drai is a second line player because he's 4th in ice time behind Nurse, Klefbom and Bear.

The point is clear. Nothing wrong with calling out an erroneous point. But no reason to devalue the whole points made, or the poster. Right?

If one specific point is out of line just say so. Poor form to reference trolling instead.

moving on

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

The 'everyone loves him' is a narrative. Have you ever heard a player come out and bash a teamate on the Oil?

You said he was a good PK guy. I just wanted to make it real clear. He doesn't PK at all anymore. So that isn't a strength or an asset anymore.

Versatility means he can do many things. He only does ONE thing... play 5 on 5. That's his versatility. Zack can play 5 on 5 in 2019/2020. Can't help on the powerplay. Can't help on the penalty kill. Doesn't take faceoffs. Doesn't play OT. Doesn't do shootouts.

Just 5 on 5.

With McDavid he does well (if he didn't get suspended all the time, he may have gotten 50 points), without McDavid he gets around 25 points (9 years of proof).

That's not versatile. That's 1 dimensional.

I've already said I didn't want magic beans for him. I'm not sure why you refereence awful trades as a counter to something I said? I said his value was high and we should've traded him (or packaged him) for an actual Top 6 forward that can help us.

Top 6 production is something Kassian has never delivered away from McDavid. I have 10 years of proof to show he can't get more than 25 points away from the best player in the game (in his prime).

Also, he's 30 next year and on the decline.

I feel like everyone that talks about his ilk and versatility are talking about face punching.

Also, you never answer my questions... Tell me about Zack's speed again... behind McDavid or ahead of Gagner? Where does he fit. Because I keep hearing about how fast he is. I would describe him as 'not slow and about 12th on the roster in terms of speed. Where do you have him?

Not everyone loves him... likely just his teammates. He's not a fun player to play against and sticks up for this team's elite players and teammates.

His veteran coach seems to like him:
“He’s the epitome of today’s power forward, a big guy who can engage in the physical part of the game but Zack also has the skill to play with top players,” said Edmonton coach Dave Tippett. “It’s a unique talent, the physical part and the skill.”

“His hands are really good. That goal he scored. That was a great shot,” Tippett said. “He’s a versatile player. I would still put him in the class of a role player but there’s different roles he can jump into because he’s skilled enough.”

These quotes from a veteran coach with 1,000+ games under his belt and another 700+ as a pro player in my books is pretty credible in assessing player talent and attributes. On a bad team, he seized the opportunity to play and produce on the top line. Skating and thinking with creative players like McDavid and Draisaitl is important and Kassian did that at times in Vancouver with the Sedin's. And yes of course McDavid inflates everyone's numbers he plays with ... it's why he is a generational talent.

Like Tippett, I view Kassian as a quality role player with versatility in his game, not as a traditional first line skill player. The Oilers have had a black hole at wing and he's earned the ice on the topline. His production is solid and has improved with the stability in his life. The new contract kicks in at his age 29 season and ends at age 32 season which of course turns 33 with a January birthdate.

About Kassian's speed, watch the games. He can skate with McDavid's line and produce 5 on 5 production, gets in on forecheck with speed and ill-humour, and does so as a power forward type player that Tippett described above. He's top third on the team for speed imo. I'll forego skills competition pageantry as as way to gage his speed and hold on to the eye test of game situation. Watch his stride and it is easy to see a strong, powerful skater.

The trade history of Edmonton hasn't been good. This team has been horrible forever and finally in position to potentially make the playoffs. The box office has also been hit as excessively loyal fans finally have voted with their wallets to stay away instead of paying among the highest ticket prices in the league to watch this team. I've listed many reasons in past posts why trading Kassian during the deadline frenzy would not happen. It is a franchise that can't afford to take the risk of breaking up a roster that might actually lift the decade of darkness. And his GM, Coach and Teammates that interact, sweat and toil with Kassian have stated they want and value this guy on their team - even at the time of great controversy with Turtlegate.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Zack is not a cornerstone to a Stanley Cup Championship team.

Where do you think he'd play on Tampa? Boston? The Leafs? The Flames? The Blues? The Avs?

He'd be a bottom 6 guy getting 12 minutes a night with about 25 points. His only versatility is that he can occasionally punch a face.

He didn't get better, he got on McDavid's line. Just like Chiasson, Ratty and Maroon before him.

McLeod was an example of many guys that are faster than him. McLeod projects to be a good bottom 6 player who is actually versatile. He will also be a better player in 2 years. Can you say the same about Zack in 2 years?

Bottom 6 players should be signed for shorter terms and cap hits. Kassian is not a core piece. He never will be. He's never led a team to the playoffs. He's barely scored in the playoffs. He's never been a core piece on another team. He's a bottom 6 guy who lucked out and got to play with McDavid. He can also punch a face, take stupid penalties and get himself suspended twice in the same month when the Oil needed him the most.

Of course he's not a cornerstone player for Tampa, Boston, the Leafs, Flames, Blues, Aves, or 25 other teams, he was plutonium when picked up and a guy on his third strike of a wild child's most excellent adventure in fast living and easy money as a professional athlete. He has an addiction issue which will always pose a risk to the end of his days. Right now, in this season, he's a cornerstone player whose talked about as a leader on a epic bad franchise that is finally in position to compete for the playoffs. It's taken five years on this team to rebuild his life, credibility with management, teammates, and family; and his game as an NHL player.

He's a role player that earned ice time with the first line of a bad hockey team and has been able to stay there with solid 5 on 5 production. Oh and to your point, yup, he can occasionally punch a face as McDavid, Draisaitl and teammates have appreciated knowing that if shit hits the fan its not Rattie or Chiasson who will back them up. Kassian will move down the lineup as this team improves its personnel. Unfortunately that can't happen fast enough. But even then, he'll have the ability to move up in situations because he can think and skate with top talent and occasionally punch a face too.

McLeod and Nygard are both faster than Kassian. Lots of AHL players too. Kassian's built a ten year NHL career playing at the game's highest level. He did it while fighting a serious addiction problem and now sober has put up essentially career production two of the past years earning ice time as fought to earn the trust and respect of teammates, management and coaching. Beyond skills, character is an essential attribute to make the NHL first and foremost but secondly to stay in it over the long run. Kassian is far, far from a perfect player and no one is selling that bill of good. Your example of Ryan McLeod is an example of a guy with solid skill set (principally skating) but flags about being a perimeter player and having to learn to go into the tough areas on the ice shed some insight into the character side and grit of what it takes to make and succeed in the NHL. I hope McLeod and every Oiler prospect will achieve their full potential and make the Oilers great again! But its a long road from prospect to NHL player and lots that has mad skills but missed the character attributes.

Kassian's contract is a little rich, a little long. Eskimo likely hit it with he's a $2 million player with other things that gets him to $3.2 million contract. Where some see the character flaws in Kassian I opt to see the will and grit to overcome a major illness, to become a valued teammate and trusted player by coach and management. Sure, maybe he could have been traded for more skill versus bad draft picks per past Oiler legacy, but right now Kassian is an important player with versatility for THIS Oilers team, and I anticipate for the contract ahead.

Appreciate we see things differently.

 

[Beerfish]

Kassian was paid and termed because of the mcdavid effect. GM's keep getting fooled about this.
Would we have signed him otherwise? Oh maybe but not to that term and salary.

And the same people saying it is no big deal were the ones saying 'Give Holland a year to clear cap space and we will be fine!'

 

[Drivesaitl]

Of course he's not a cornerstone player for Tampa, Boston, the Leafs, Flames, Blues, Aves, or 25 other teams, he was plutonium when picked up and a guy on his third strike of a wild child's most excellent adventure in fast living and easy money as a professional athlete. He has an addiction issue which will always pose a risk to the end of his days. Right now, in this season, he's a cornerstone player whose talked about as a leader on a epic bad franchise that is finally in position to compete for the playoffs. It's taken five years on this team to rebuild his life, credibility with management, teammates, and family; and his game as an NHL player.

He's a role player that earned ice time with the first line of a bad hockey team and has been able to stay there with solid 5 on 5 production. Oh and to your point, yup, he can occasionally punch a face as McDavid, Draisaitl and teammates have appreciated knowing that if **** hits the fan its not Rattie or Chiasson who will back them up. Kassian will move down the lineup as this team improves its personnel. Unfortunately that can't happen fast enough. But even then, he'll have the ability to move up in situations because he can think and skate with top talent and occasionally punch a face too.

McLeod and Nygard are both faster than Kassian. Lots of AHL players too. Kassian's built a ten year NHL career playing at the game's highest level. He did it while fighting a serious addiction problem and now sober has put up essentially career production two of the past years earning ice time as fought to earn the trust and respect of teammates, management and coaching. Beyond skills, character is an essential attribute to make the NHL first and foremost but secondly to stay in it over the long run. Kassian is far, far from a perfect player and no one is selling that bill of good. Your example of Ryan McLeod is an example of a guy with solid skill set (principally skating) but flags about being a perimeter player and having to learn to go into the tough areas on the ice shed some insight into the character side and grit of what it takes to make and succeed in the NHL. I hope McLeod and every Oiler prospect will achieve their full potential and make the Oilers great again! But its a long road from prospect to NHL player and lots that has mad skills but missed the character attributes.

Kassian's contract is a little rich, a little long. Eskimo likely hit it with he's a $2 million player with other things that gets him to $3.2 million contract. Where some see the character flaws in Kassian I opt to see the will and grit to overcome a major illness, to become a valued teammate and trusted player by coach and management. Sure, maybe he could have been traded for more skill versus bad draft picks per past Oiler legacy, but right now Kassian is an important player with versatility for THIS Oilers team, and I anticipate for the contract ahead.

Appreciate we see things differently.

Without even commenting on the meat of your post a wish for more of this (bolded) on the board.

As well as it being a true pleasure just to read a good exchange here. This is what discussion is, kudos to both of you!

 

[Little Fury]

Seems like most people on the extreme end want to punish Kassian for what could have happened. Lots of "give him 20 games because his skate could have went higher and got his neck" kind of stuff.

Chara just got a $5k fine for crosschecking someone in the throat. Should they have given him 10+ games because "what if he collapsed Gallagher's windpipe?" or something similar?

It was a beyond dumb thing to do, but he's only getting 5-8 games.

Yes.

 

[longtimeoilfan]

No fighting in the playoffs (or the Olympics). Name all the smashmouth guys that played key roles on the last few Stanley Cup Champions? There is a reason there aren't many Kassians around anymore.

The new nhl ... hockey for people that should be watching soccer.

And when it comes to a long series against a team, players like Kassian are gold ... watch Toronto get tooled again because they lack grit.

Boston was a thorn in the side of the Maple Leafs playoff hopes because of players 'like' Kassian.

edit: And there aren't many goons in the league anymore … Kassian is far from a goon.

 

[TheRebuild]

The new nhl ... hockey for people that should be watching soccer.

And when it comes to a long series against a team, players like Kassian are gold .

Like Kassian is the key word here... not actual Kassian who has only made the playoffs 3 times in the 10 years he’s played professionally, and has largely been a non-factor in those series.

 

[McDNicks17]

Like Kassian is the key word here... not actual Kassian who has only made the playoffs 3 times in the 10 years he’s played professionally, and has largely been a non-factor in those series.

If you think he was a non-factor in the San Jose series, I don't know what to tell you.

 

[longtimeoilfan]

Like Kassian is the key word here... not actual Kassian who has only made the playoffs 3 times in the 10 years he’s played professionally, and has largely been a non-factor in those series.

Haters gonna hate … Like I wrote, I still like the signing. And I look forward to what Kassian brings in the playoffs.

 

[Czechboy]

Your stats and links which you wrote about don’t make your opinion any more valid than mine.

If I had the time and inclination I could write a blog nobody else would read either at how the contract is a fair price at below average NHL dollars for an average NHL player who brings qualities to the game highly valued by NHL execs, coaches and it’s star players and use quotes, stats and links to support my opinion.

In the end the contract was signed less than two weeks ago and he will not be defined by objective fans or bloggers alike by those two weeks and this unfortunate suspension.

To say he should have been traded is simple pie in the sky reaching. For what return? At what loss? For someone who doesn’t have the pulse of the team, locker room or Holland’s trading partners you simply do not have the Answer to an invalid question.

If you are going keep patting yourself on the back over how well your article aged then keep knocking yourself out. I believe his contract and worth over that time span will prove to be good value and money well spent.

Time will tell. Not two weeks.

Do me a favour.. reread this post and tally how many cheapshots you took at me. Now reread every post I've written to you... count my cheapshots at you.

Also, you haven't provided any stats.

 

[Czechboy]

Is it wrong to expect more evidence than "he played less minutes than four defensemen" and "the PK was bad last year" when someone is so staunchly against something that's easily seen in a couple simple stats?

Kassian was on the ice for 20% of the PK goals against last year. There's an obvious bias if you're blaming him for the sole difference in this and last year's PKs.

The top 7 were 3 D and 4 forwards.. Zack was the 4th forward. Only 4 guys (or 3) PK at a time.

What stat? What is easily seen? He's played less than 2 minutes total this season. It's very easy to see that he doesn't penalty kill.

 

[Czechboy]

He can skate with McDavid's line and produce 5 on 5 production

This part I agree with.. I just don't see anything else he does. He literally just plays 5 on 5 with McDavid. That's not versatility. It's 1 dimensional. Archibald also produces great 5 on 5 with McDavid. He also played 3 on 3 today and scored with Drai.. don't think Zack has played on 3 on 3 OT or scored any OT points.

Also, please find me quotes of Tippet saying any of the Oiler's suck? Shouldn't be in the league and are garbage? He hasn't said a bad thing about anyone because that's not a smart thing to do. I'm positive I could find him saying positive things about every single player on the roster.

 

[Czechboy]

The new nhl ... hockey for people that should be watching soccer.

And when it comes to a long series against a team, players like Kassian are gold ... watch Toronto get tooled again because they lack grit.

Boston was a thorn in the side of the Maple Leafs playoff hopes because of players 'like' Kassian.

edit: And there aren't many goons in the league anymore … Kassian is far from a goon.

Who's the Kassian on Boston that keeps knocking out Toronto?