Karlsson vs Coffey for peak (read OP)

[psycat]

Letang would've been very close to Karlsson offensively if he had not had a stroke. Their PPG is .85 to .91 during the 2011 - 17 span.

Coffey is Erik Karlsson with the winning pedigree and it isn't like he didn't play defensively in the majority of his cup wins.

Sure but those kind of superteams are not really possible in todays NHL+the fact that he did play with the two best offensive players and a myriad of other superstars of course. Simply hard to compare I mean still leaning towards Coffey personally but it's probably mostly based on the name.

 

[psycat]

wrong, and wrong.

Mcdavid was already the best in 2017.

Best at being overrated maybe, McDavid that is. McDavid is just horribly overrated in general, farted his way to two weak Art Ross's that even HFboards doesn't rank in the top 10 seasons of the 2000s, bad playoff performer so far, losing Ross to his own team mate this year, tons of empty points boosted by ice-time etc- clearly one of the best(and the most flashy) players in the game but nowhere near some "clear number one" at any point in his career so far.

 

[joe dirte]

Best at being overrated maybe, McDavid that is. McDavid is just horribly overrated in general, farted his way to two weak Art Ross's that even HFboards doesn't rank in the top 10 seasons of the 2000s, bad playoff performer so far, losing Ross to his own team mate this year, tons of empty points boosted by ice-time etc- clearly one of the best(and the most flashy) players in the game but nowhere near some "clear number one" at any point in his career so far.

Out of curiousity, you think tonnes of ice time can boost points? And tonnes of PP time boosts points even further?

 

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

Letang would've been very close to Karlsson offensively if he had not had a stroke. Their PPG is .85 to .91 during the 2011 - 17 span.

Coffey is Erik Karlsson with the winning pedigree and it isn't like he didn't play defensively in the majority of his cup wins.

1) Teammates, teammates, teammates. Letang played on super teams, being able to pick up easy points on the power play with Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Neal, etc. They literally won a Cup without Letang. It took Karlsson playing at a super level to get to the Conference Finals.

2) Karlsson had injuries, too. Missed most of the lockout-shortened season and had to re-learn how to skate efficiently.

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

Went with Coffey, nothing against Karlsson, Coffey I just feel was the better player, the multiple 100 point seasons as a defenseman along with the season goal record of 48 speaks for itself.

 

[Gurglesons]

1) Teammates, teammates, teammates. Letang played on super teams, being able to pick up easy points on the power play with Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Neal, etc. They literally won a Cup without Letang. It took Karlsson playing at a super level to get to the Conference Finals.

2) Karlsson had injuries, too. Missed most of the lockout-shortened season and had to re-learn how to skate efficiently.

What does any of this have to do with Letang producing at a similar clip to Karlsson?

 

[AvroArrow]

Context matters. Karlsson had nowhere near the level of teammates Coffey had, nor did he play in the highest scoring era.

Playing in the 80s, with Gretzky, Messier, Kurri cannot be ignored. I don't think anyone disagrees with the fact that Coffey was a phenomenal player but if you're going to compare point totals, and difference in points between players etc. you have to do it in context. Karlsson never had the luxury of playing with the goat and 2 other hall of famers

 

[McFlash97]

There's more to hockey than beyond points my guy.

like -6 games ?

 

[McFlash97]

Context matters. Karlsson had nowhere near the level of teammates Coffey had, nor did he play in the highest scoring era.

Playing in the 80s, with Gretzky, Messier, Kurri cannot be ignored. I don't think anyone disagrees with the fact that Coffey was a phenomenal player but if you're going to compare point totals, and difference in points between players etc. you have to do it in context. Karlsson never had the luxury of playing with the goat and 2 other hall of famers

Coffey was just flat out better guy.

lets get real here.

stop spinning around in circles. Its laughable to compare. Margarine is just a low fat worst tasting butter. It Ain't butter.

Karlsson is Coffey lite.

 

[joe dirte]

What does any of this have to do with Letang producing at a similar clip to Karlsson?

Letang is highly underappreciated around here. When healthy, he was a top 5 Dman in the NHL. He wasn't one dimensional like other high scoring dmen. He was no elite shutdown guy, but quite capable defensively. so many people don't realize that Pittsburgh played a reasonably tough, and tight defensive team game. It's not all Crosby and Malkin.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

like -6 games ?

Let's see how many -6 games Coffey would've had if he were on the Ottawa Senators instead of the 80s Oilers.

 

[GrantLemons]

Context matters. Karlsson had nowhere near the level of teammates Coffey had, nor did he play in the highest scoring era.

Playing in the 80s, with Gretzky, Messier, Kurri cannot be ignored. I don't think anyone disagrees with the fact that Coffey was a phenomenal player but if you're going to compare point totals, and difference in points between players etc. you have to do it in context. Karlsson never had the luxury of playing with the goat and 2 other hall of famers

Put some respek on Kevin Lowe's name.

 

[Fourier]

Context matters. Karlsson had nowhere near the level of teammates Coffey had, nor did he play in the highest scoring era.

Playing in the 80s, with Gretzky, Messier, Kurri cannot be ignored. I don't think anyone disagrees with the fact that Coffey was a phenomenal player but if you're going to compare point totals, and difference in points between players etc. you have to do it in context. Karlsson never had the luxury of playing with the goat and 2 other hall of famers

First let me say that I think Karlsson was the best offensive defenseman in decades. But great teammates can cut both ways.

For most of his career Karlsson was the go to guy in Ottawa especially on the pp. If he was on the ice the puck went through him a lot. On the pp this was especially true. That means that if a goal is scored he probably gets a point simply because of the volume of touches even on plays where his contribution is not primary.

On the Oilers, as good as Coffey was, the guy who had the puck was Gretzky. Playing with Gretzky, Coffey was a target more than they guy stirring the pot once they were in the offensive zone. This was not because Coffey wasn't as incredibly talented offensively but more so because they had a guy was the best of all time. The Oilers power play back then never ran through its defencemen like most pp's do today. It was much more a forward focused attack.

An example of this is the impression that during their time together Nugent-Hopkins must have benefitted points-wise from playing with Hall who is perceived to be the better player. It turns out that at least 5 vs 5 this perception was wrong. Over the years they played together Nuge's ES scoring rate was actually higher away from Hall than it was with Hall. The reason was that Hall is a player who always wants the puck while when they played together Nuge deferred to Hall. Playing away from Hall Nuge was typically the go-to guy on his line and was far more often the puck carrier. Moreover, if you dig deeper it turns out that it was Nuge's assist rate that went down playing with Hall vs when he was playing with guys who typically scored much less, something that is completely counter intuitive. So while Coffey certainly benefitted substantially from playing with two of the games greats its not always as simple as the better the linemates the more you as an individual score. Karlsson with Gretzky would have had a very different role than he did in Ottawa. Certainly he would have put up more points, but I am less convinced that he would have been as good a complementary player for Gretzky as Coffey as was.

On a different note: . In Karlsson's 82 point season he had 56 ES points and no SH points. 36 of those were primary points. In Coffey's best year he had 30 ES and 9 SH goals. Plus 60 ES assists and 5 SH assists. 13 of his SH points were primary points and 69 of his ES points were primary. That's 81 primary points either ES or SH. I was at every home game Coffey played that year. He was beyond ridiculous. Other than Gretzky it was the best I ever saw anyone in an Oiler uniform play.