Friedman: Karlsson trade talks picking up, Vancouver interested

[Flamesjustwin]

Tbh as a Leafs fan, seeing Bolts fans not want to include Point or MS or Oilers fans not wanting to include LD, making the deal as Nylander + Liljegren + 1st makes me think we're overpaying considering I doubt another team would be willing to top that offer or come close.

The key word being fans. You do realize most fans on here ridiculously overrate their players right? Your average Joe on here is usually way off base on player values.

 

[DFC]

Tbh as a Leafs fan, seeing Bolts fans not want to include Point or MS or Oilers fans not wanting to include LD, making the deal as Nylander + Liljegren + 1st makes me think we're overpaying considering I doubt another team would be willing to top that offer or come close.

Yes and no. TB fans don't want to include Point because we just can't do it without ripping a huge hole into our lineup, not because of player values. Karlsson is worth Point and then some. But losing Point means TB would have an all-time great defense... and no center depth to speak of. It would just defeat the purpose.

The Leafs are in a very different position. Trading Nylander + for an extended Karlsson gives you the best center in the division (Matthews); unquestionably the best center depth in the league; arguably, but probably, the best defenseman in the division/league (Karlsson); a very good defense; and your weakest position, wing, is the position that seems to matter least in terms of winning long-term, and even so, you've still got Mitch Marner, meaning you're not even THAT weak on the wing.

If Ottawa would do this trade, the Leafs should do it. I think TB still has a better team than Toronto as of right now, even though the Leafs are so strong down the middle. But Nylander for Karlsson, IMO, tips things in the Leafs' favor in a big way. I just don't see how it wouldn't make you a better, more balanced team.

 

[hockeyguy1967]

For a signed Karlsson I'd be willing to go Nylander + 1st + Zaitsev.

Rielly-Karlsson
Dermott-Hainsey
Borgman-Liljegren

The skating ability of that top pair would be incredible to watch

Zaitsev has negative value.

 

[jrgtml67]

Just want to say one thing. I'm assuming Tampa fans are saying they have a shot..well how when you guys most likely are getting Panarin? I think its hilarious..leads cant afford 4 guys but Tampa can afford, Stam, Kuch, Hedman, Miller, Johnson, Mcdonagh and have to resign Point in a year and Vase in 2. But no leads cant dare afford Matthew's Nylander Marner and Tavares.

 

[AndreRoy]

Three way trade:

Tampa sends a cap dump to Vegas for Jake Leschyshyn, then Tampa sends him and Cal Foote for Erik Karlson.

With Wolanin Ottawa gets a half it's D corp made up of sons on members of the 1996 Stanley Cup Colorado Avalanche.

We don’t have a cap dump that would allow us to fit Karlsson’s next contract and we aren’t trading Foote for a rental.

 

[AndreRoy]

Just want to say one thing. I'm assuming Tampa fans are saying they have a shot..well how when you guys most likely are getting Panarin? I think its hilarious..leads cant afford 4 guys but Tampa can afford, Stam, Kuch, Hedman, Miller, Johnson, Mcdonagh and have to resign Point in a year and Vase in 2. But no leads cant dare afford Matthew's Nylander Marner and Tavares.

This Tampa fan agrees with you.

 

[DFC]

Just want to say one thing. I'm assuming Tampa fans are saying they have a shot..well how when you guys most likely are getting Panarin? I think its hilarious..leads cant afford 4 guys but Tampa can afford, Stam, Kuch, Hedman, Miller, Johnson, Mcdonagh and have to resign Point in a year and Vase in 2. But no leads cant dare afford Matthew's Nylander Marner and Tavares.

You're mistaking outside fans for TB fans. Most of the threads started about TB lately have been started by outside fans. In no universe do I think it's possible for us to land Karlsson and Panarin. One or the other, sure, although they both seem pretty far fetched right now, and would both require us clearing cap space.

But there's also the thing where it looks like Toronto is going to have to pay its stars a lot more than TB is. Nobody's getting 10m in TB. Not sure that's going to be the case in Toronto, where it definitely feels like some young players are looking to get paid.

 

[NoName]

Yes and no. TB fans don't want to include Point because we just can't do it without ripping a huge hole into our lineup, not because of player values. Karlsson is worth Point and then some. But losing Point means TB would have an all-time great defense... and no center depth to speak of. It would just defeat the purpose.

The Leafs are in a very different position. Trading Nylander + for an extended Karlsson gives you the best center in the division (Matthews); unquestionably the best center depth in the league; arguably, but probably, the best defenseman in the division/league (Karlsson); a very good defense; and your weakest position, wing, is the position that seems to matter least in terms of winning long-term, and even so, you've still got Mitch Marner, meaning you're not even THAT weak on the wing.

If Ottawa would do this trade, the Leafs should do it. I think TB still has a better team than Toronto as of right now, even though the Leafs are so strong down the middle. But Nylander for Karlsson, IMO, tips things in the Leafs' favor in a big way. I just don't see how it wouldn't make you a better, more balanced team.

I would still take Stamkos as the single best centre in the division right now. Tavares is close, but Stamkos just racks up offensively. Matthews could get there by the end of the season, as he was really solid after he finally recovered from all the injuries, but as of right now Stammer still is in my eyes number 1 (Bergeron is also the fourth guy in this conversation, and Eichel could work his way in of he lives up to his potential). Now, the Leafs are really inly rivalled by Pittsburgh for depth down the middle as a whole, I grant you that.

Tampa already has a true superstar on the blue-line so while adding the best dman in the NHL (when healthy), would be an absurd abundance of riches, unlike the Leafs, I don’t see any holes in key areas for Tampa. They sort of look like those Capitals teams of a few years ago that looked like gods on paper and dominated in the regular season.

Now for an extended (and healthy) Karlsson, yes, the Leafs should be willing to trade Nylander and the first and maybe even Liljegren as well, if they can make the contracts work with the cap (this is all pointless if we also can’t afford to sign Marner next season; that along with losing Nylander, our pick and the single best prospect in our system would seriously damage the Leafs ability to contend).

The Lightning indeed do not have the same need for a superstar blue-liner, but still... can you imagine the damage that Hedman and Karlssin could do? Split them up and you have teams facing a Norris caliber defenceman all game, and stack them together in high leverage situations and just watch as the puck soends minutes at a time in the opponents end... and can you imagine how insane it would be to see both those guys feeding passes to Stamkos and Kucherov?! That would be nuts.
Losing Point would indeed cause some issues at centre depth, but Karlsson is just so good and would have such a positive impact, if Point is the required centrepiece (in addition to a blue-chip future or something for a sugned Karlsson, and the Lighting can work it under the cal, then I think Tampa has to pull the trigger: their window is firmly open now, we don’t know about three or five years from now, but putting Karlsson in this lineup now undoubtedly puts them as very heavy Cup favorites and should really help them finally get over that playoff hump they have had for the last few years (we all know how mych Karlsson can elevate his game in the playoffs; imagine if he had the roster of the Lightning in 2017 instead of the Sens).

 

[DFC]

I would still take Stamkos as the single best centre in the division right now. Tavares is close, but Stamkos just racks up offensively. Matthews could get there by the end of the season, as he was really solid after he finally recovered from all the injuries, but as of right now Stammer still is in my eyes number 1 (Bergeron is also the fourth guy in this conversation, and Eichel could work his way in of he lives up to his potential). Now, the Leafs are really inly rivalled by Pittsburgh for depth down the middle as a whole, I grant you that.

Tampa already has a true superstar on the blue-line so while adding the best dman in the NHL (when healthy), would be an absurd abundance of riches, unlike the Leafs, I don’t see any holes in key areas for Tampa. They sort of look like those Capitals teams of a few years ago that looked like gods on paper and dominated in the regular season.

Now for an extended (and healthy) Karlsson, yes, the Leafs should be willing to trade Nylander and the first and maybe even Liljegren as well, if they can make the contracts work with the cap (this is all pointless if we also can’t afford to sign Marner next season; that along with losing Nylander, our pick and the single best prospect in our system would seriously damage the Leafs ability to contend).

The Lightning indeed do not have the same need for a superstar blue-liner, but still... can you imagine the damage that Hedman and Karlssin could do? Split them up and you have teams facing a Norris caliber defenceman all game, and stack them together in high leverage situations and just watch as the puck soends minutes at a time in the opponents end... and can you imagine how insane it would be to see both those guys feeding passes to Stamkos and Kucherov?! That would be nuts.
Losing Point would indeed cause some issues at centre depth, but Karlsson is just so good and would have such a positive impact, if Point is the required centrepiece (in addition to a blue-chip future or something for a sugned Karlsson, and the Lighting can work it under the cal, then I think Tampa has to pull the trigger: their window is firmly open now, we don’t know about three or five years from now, but putting Karlsson in this lineup now undoubtedly puts them as very heavy Cup favorites and should really help them finally get over that playoff hump they have had for the last few years (we all know how mych Karlsson can elevate his game in the playoffs; imagine if he had the roster of the Lightning in 2017 instead of the Sens).

Stamkos is really a shadow of his former self, particularly at ES. He scored 8 ES goals last season, same as Chris Kunitz. Yeah, he had a nice amount of ES assists, but nobody's ever going to mistake Stamkos for an elite playmaker. He's not as good as Tavares right now, not as good as Matthews, not as good as Bergeron (when you consider D).

That makes Point pretty essential for us. He scored more goals than Stamkos last year, while playing with an assortment of wingers, whereas Stamkos was glued to Nikita Kucherov all year long. Point is also blossoming into a legit shutdown center, and we don't have another one. So yeah, losing him would destroy our C depth. Neither Stamkos nor Johnson have played consistently at a high level (relative to their roles) in a few years. Emphasis on "consistently."

 

[Kranix]

Teams are going to see what they actually have in the first bit of the season oct-nov. Some are going to really want Karlsson by US Thanksgiving. That's when a trade happens, for my third guess.

 

[MMC]

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