Confirmed with Link: Kap files for salary arbitration, still has no idea what he's doing in any zone

[Pens x]

Is Doc the Crux by which we should judge the quality of this lineup? Seems like a pretty low bar and threshold to reach. Aim higher. I like the player and would be okay if he were in the lineup, but I'm not clamoring for him. Hopefully we can do better.

Archibald will take his spot.

 

[jmelm]

Stop deluding yourself that DOC will be a regular next season...

Stop deluding yourself that he won’t be.

 

[Ryder71]

Archibald will take his spot.

I'm not that enamored with anyone in the bottom six to tell you the truth. But I don't look at Doc as some savior there.

 

[jmelm]

I'm not that enamored with anyone in the bottom six to tell you the truth. But I don't look at Doc as some savior there.

So what you’re really trying to say is that you see DOC being in the top 6?

 

[Ryder71]

So what you’re really trying to say is that you see DOC being in the top 6?

Probably not. LOL

 

[dogthateats]

DOC has 3 career NHL goals and none of them were really beating a goalie with his shot. I guess he was in the right places at least.
Goal 1: MAF misplays a puck (lol) near the border of the trapezoid and DOC hustles to the puck for an easy tap-in
Goal 2: the Dragon blasts a slapshot off of DOC and into the net
Goal 3: same game as goal 2, DOC makes a centering pass to Friedman, but the puck hits a defender and goes into the net

 

[gopens66]

Fair enough.........and what's his NHL sample size?

 

[gopens66]

The fact is Sullivan came in as head coach and immediately started calling up youth from WBS. Fast forward and he wins two cups. Then he somehow turns into Bylsma and won't play youth. Zohorna and DOC both showed speed, grit, tenacity and hustle in the limited chances they got and still produced in those limited chances. It's not unreasonable for fans who understand the cap era to want to see more of that.

 

[Pens x]

The fact is Sullivan came in as head coach and immediately started calling up youth from WBS. Fast forward and he wins two cups. Then he somehow turns into Bylsma and won't play youth. Zohorna and DOC both showed speed, grit, tenacity and hustle in the limited chances they got and still produced in those limited chances. It's not unreasonable for fans who understand the cap era to want to see more of that.

It seems like the second Hextall came here, Wilkes Barre ceased to exist.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

DOC has 3 career NHL goals and none of them were really beating a goalie with his shot. I guess he was in the right places at least.
Goal 1: MAF misplays a puck (lol) near the border of the trapezoid and DOC hustles to the puck for an easy tap-in
Goal 2: the Dragon blasts a slapshot off of DOC and into the net
Goal 3: same game as goal 2, DOC makes a centering pass to Friedman, but the puck hits a defender and goes into the net

He also went like 20 games without a single point. Over the course of the same stretch (10/26 through 1/15) Boyle had 2pts (2 goals), Simon had 3pts (3 assists), ZAR had a *scorching* 8pts (1g, 7a). Three guys everyone would've gnawed off their own arm to have the team be rid of.

I'm all for the kid having a Rust/Jake "where the f*** did this dude come from" moment but I'm... Pretty skeptical. We'll go with that.

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

Why the f*** is this bum still here??

 

[Ryder71]

It seems like the second Hextall came here, Wilkes Barre ceased to exist.

I mean our prospects kind of suck, and they're kind of underwhelming. What's the big deal, none of them are grade A prospects.

Why the f*** is this bum still here??

Hextall lost a bet with every other GM apparently.

 

[Seras]

2.5x1

 

[Ryder71]

The fact is Sullivan came in as head coach and immediately started calling up youth from WBS. Fast forward and he wins two cups. Then he somehow turns into Bylsma and won't play youth. Zohorna and DOC both showed speed, grit, tenacity and hustle in the limited chances they got and still produced in those limited chances. It's not unreasonable for fans who understand the cap era to want to see more of that.

I get what you're saying. And I do like Doc, however I don't think it's that big of a deal. I think you really need to calm down oh, okay? It's not like we have the next Connor McDavid down in the minors. LOL or any one remotely close to him, okay? They're largely trash. Our Prospect pool Beyond maybe three or four players is disgustingly bad. You need to understand that. You need to embrace that.

 

[Ryder71]

DOC has 3 career NHL goals and none of them were really beating a goalie with his shot. I guess he was in the right places at least.
Goal 1: MAF misplays a puck (lol) near the border of the trapezoid and DOC hustles to the puck for an easy tap-in
Goal 2: the Dragon blasts a slapshot off of DOC and into the net
Goal 3: same game as goal 2, DOC makes a centering pass to Friedman, but the puck hits a defender and goes into the net

It's largely the backup quarterback syndrome. They want the underdog, they want the low guy on the totem pole to get their shot. Even if he sucks to high heaven. They don't care, they want blood. Regardless of if it actually helps the team or not. They want to change for the sake of change and they don't care what the Fallout is. They simply don't care.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

The fact is Sullivan came in as head coach and immediately started calling up youth from WBS. Fast forward and he wins two cups. Then he somehow turns into Bylsma and won't play youth. Zohorna and DOC both showed speed, grit, tenacity and hustle in the limited chances they got and still produced in those limited chances. It's not unreasonable for fans who understand the cap era to want to see more of that.

Did they though?

Listen, I am all for getting some youth in the lineup

Z seen his share of chances last season and while he looked good there were still some things that needed worked on (completely understandable, he's only seen NA ice for 2 years)

DOC was called up in the playoffs while it mattered most - he looked ok but it wasn't like anyone should be saying Damn DOC should have been up here much earlier

I find it funny that there are many in this fanbase that continue to demand these guys play up here like they just deserve a spot and the organization has it out to let their talents rot in WBS. These guys are just ready to break out and make some huge impact to the team and we are holding them back from doing so.

If these guys earn a spot in the lineup-like I think at the very least DOC and possibly Z do next year sure. Competition is good. But lets let them earn it. It not like we are so talented in WBS (b/c we aren't) that there are players just lined up waiting to hit the big club and thrive

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I've learned speaking to anyone about Kapanen here is fruitless. The hate is rooted deep for no apparent reason that lives in logic.

Did they though?

Listen, I am all for getting some youth in the lineup

Z seen his share of chances last season and while he looked good there were still some things that needed worked on (completely understandable, he's only seen NA ice for 2 years)

DOC was called up in the playoffs while it mattered most - he looked ok but it wasn't like anyone should be saying Damn DOC should have been up here much earlier

I find it funny that there are many in this fanbase that continue to demand these guys play up here like they just deserve a spot and the organization has it out to let their talents rot in WBS. These guys are just ready to break out and make some huge impact to the team and we are holding them back from doing so.

If these guys earn a spot in the lineup-like I think at the very least DOC and possibly Z do next year sure. Competition is good. But lets let them earn it. It not like we are so talented in WBS (b/c we aren't) that there are players just lined up waiting to hit the big club and thrive

Nice excuses.

The fact is Sullivan came in as head coach and immediately started calling up youth from WBS. Fast forward and he wins two cups. Then he somehow turns into Bylsma and won't play youth. Zohorna and DOC both showed speed, grit, tenacity and hustle in the limited chances they got and still produced in those limited chances. It's not unreasonable for fans who understand the cap era to want to see more of that.

You speak the truth.

But so many here drank the Sully juice in keg stands that they refuse to believe things that are literally proved by facts and footage.

But hey the 6 and 4mins he got in the playoffs is proof. I also love how Puustinen was called up, was engaged at both ends, created a goal, created other chances, then was sent down. Doc was never tried in the top 6 when he was on his hot streak, but Heinen or anyone got hot for a game, they were instantly promoted. Hell Rodrigues was up in the top 6 for 40+ games while being awful during that last stretch.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

I've learned speaking to anyone about Kapanen here is fruitless. The hate is rooted deep for no apparent reason that lives in logic.


Nice excuses.


You speak the truth.

But so many here drank the Sully juice in keg stands that they refuse to believe things that are literally proved by facts and footage.

But hey the 6 and 4mins he got in the playoffs is proof. I also love how Puustinen was called up, was engaged at both ends, created a goal, created other chances, then was sent down. Doc was never tried in the top 6 when he was on his hot streak, but Heinen or anyone got hot for a game, they were instantly promoted. Hell Rodrigues was up in the top 6 for 40+ games while being awful during that last stretch.

I dont know, apparently my excuses are facts and the gameplay tells you that

And while Kap does get some hate, his expectations were set pretty high. I like Kap and while he hasn't been what people wanted him to be ( a 2nd line NHL'er ) his game is not as bad as people make it out to be and has been extremely unlucky. Some of those goals go in he isn't getting as much hate

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I dont know, apparently my excuses are facts and the gameplay tells you that

And while Kap does get some hate, his expectations were set pretty high. I like Kap and while he hasn't been what people wanted him to be ( a 2nd line NHL'er ) his game is not as bad as people make it out to be and has been extremely unlucky. Some of those goals go in he isn't getting as much hate

Ok I guess we're talking Kapanen. The fact that the staff has no idea what his usage should be is a big problem. They had him bouncing from a scoring role to a checking role and nothing Inbetween all season. No usage on the pk when it was discussed in preseason (and utilized well). So to me how much is Kapanen losing his mojo his fault vs the info he's getting is likely making him play confused and out of sorts. There were times he did play well and the benefactor of his strong play got the promotion in the lineup over him. That has to sting when accountability is verbally vomited by this franchise as much as possible.

Also, there were multiple opportunities to try youth in prominent roles based on strong play and instead they doubled down on veterans that were on cold streaks that they wanted to give a longer leash to.

I mean if blokes want to ignore the usage the last 4-5yrs, fine. But don't expect us all to buy that bs. I won't try to change your mind, you won't change mine.

 

[Pens x]

I dont know, apparently my excuses are facts and the gameplay tells you that

And while Kap does get some hate, his expectations were set pretty high. I like Kap and while he hasn't been what people wanted him to be ( a 2nd line NHL'er ) his game is not as bad as people make it out to be and has been extremely unlucky. Some of those goals go in he isn't getting as much hate

And if Domingue stopped some of those pathetic goals, maybe we moved on…but he didn’t…

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think the biggest positive for Kapanen his first season with the Pens is how little he spent with the coaching staff and was thrown right into the mix and was allowed to just play his game. He gelled with Geno right away and with Geno not coming off a major knee surgery, it all looked good.

Then the "structure" attempt sets in. They have him being talked about killing penalties because he can and use him in situations in the preseason, vs buffalo he pk's and isn't on the ice for goals against his pk, but the other squads not so lucky.

Season starts he looks sort of ok and just gets worse as the season goes. They had the time to set him aside and sit him for a few and never did. One game healthy scratch. Also he got covid and just never looked the same. That was a trend for a lot of players actually....

Blueger broke his jaw, came back and was half the player.
McGinn got hurt and was a mess.
Geno was never normal all season
Zucker was hurt basically all season

It just seemed like a lot of bad shit went bad when it could have gone right.

And if Domingue stopped some of those pathetic goals, maybe we moved on…but he didn’t…

I don't know, maybe if the players didn't take dumb penalties or were able to play stronger defense and disciplined hockey we could also go that route. The biggest turning point wasn't the third goalie usage - it was Rodrigues getting up after being hit from behind with no call and taking a bad retaliatory penalty.

Pens had control up until that penalty. That gave the Rangers life and the Pens never turned it back to their side even in game 7 when they had players back.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I'm not Sullys biggest fan anymore but I agreed with his angry look at Erod.



If you lot remember - that goal was what woke Mika up. The refs were f***ing the Pens hard and the Pens didn't need to react but Erod did and f***ed the team. The Pens special teams was straight shit.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

Ok I guess we're talking Kapanen. The fact that the staff has no idea what his usage should be is a big problem. They had him bouncing from a scoring role to a checking role and nothing Inbetween all season. No usage on the pk when it was discussed in preseason (and utilized well). So to me how much is Kapanen losing his mojo his fault vs the info he's getting is likely making him play confused and out of sorts. There were times he did play well and the benefactor of his strong play got the promotion in the lineup over him. That has to sting when accountability is verbally vomited by this franchise as much as possible.

Also, there were multiple opportunities to try youth in prominent roles based on strong play and instead they doubled down on veterans that were on cold streaks that they wanted to give a longer leash to.

I mean if blokes want to ignore the usage the last 4-5yrs, fine. But don't expect us all to buy that bs. I won't try to change your mind, you won't change mine.

There's is nothing in any of the youths game that I seen that showed me they deserved a roster spot. Actullay quite the opposite. Angello, who people wanted to see he for his "toughness" played his way right out of the organization and will be lucky to even see NHL ice again.

This is coming from someone whos doesn't want to see Erod or Heinen back even though I am thankful for what they did playing above their heads at times. Also people wanted to shit on Boyle all season, guy had a hell of a season and people finally couldn't deny it anymore

Regarding Kapanen, I think if you asked him he would tell you straight up its on him. He knows he needs to be better and I 100% believe he will be better. Injuries to the team definitely didn't help many of our middle 6 forwards with any type of consistency. They were all asked to play both checking and scoring roles, I think both Zucker and Kap suffered this the most

 

[3ladesof5teel]

And if Domingue stopped some of those pathetic goals, maybe we moved on…but he didn’t…

Completely different scenarios.

Domingue played like shit and was basically a warm body covering the crease as we had no choice

Kapanen outside of not scoring was still creating and playing a solid game

 

[Honour Over Glory]

There's is nothing in any of the youths game that I seen that showed me they deserved a roster spot. Actullay quite the opposite. Angello, who people wanted to see he for his "toughness" played his way right out of the organization and will be lucky to even see NHL ice again.

This is coming from someone whos doesn't want to see Erod or Heinen back even though I am thankful for what they did playing above their heads at times. Also people wanted to shit on Boyle all season, guy had a hell of a season and people finally couldn't deny it anymore

Regarding Kapanen, I think if you asked him he would tell you straight up its on him. He knows he needs to be better and I 100% believe he will be better. Injuries to the team definitely didn't help many of our middle 6 forwards with any type of consistency. They were all asked to play both checking and scoring roles, I think both Zucker and Kap suffered this the most

Ok…

Angello was someone I wanted to see up over seeing Boyle get played too much, but it was a name of many I had mentioned I wanted to see at least tried one or two games on the 4th line at the time - Bellerive was another, Gruden who I was impressed with in WBS with his mature 2-way game, Hollander a little raw but would have been interesting there too.

Heinen I was never a fan of but he was getting a lot of top 6 time for being a ghost for long stretches, he scored 6 goals his first month, then 3 goals the 2 month, then you have Rodrigues from Game 34 to Game 82 he was getting top powerplay time, top 6 time and put up 3 goals.

The point is that you don’t know what you have until you put them in a spot to see if they fit, if you don’t try it, you never know. Puustinen should have had more than 1 game. Drew O’Connor showed for a 5 game stretch he was capable of doing more but was basically stuck to Boyle most of his time up which is just not fair usage for a young lad that has higher upside than that, the coach was so busy trying to just win games to win games than actually making sure they don’t run into issues for a team that has major injury issues.

I was also the “annoying wanker“ that kept saying Tristan Jarry was getting over played and Sullivan was going to get him hurt - Low and behold, my f***ing shitty prediction came to fruition much to all of our disdain.

I think so many here forget how much of this is very familiar and want to lie to themselves that it isn’t the same because I guess it’s a coping method. But winning games during the regular season to only have the same result in the playoffs, while a lot is injuries and what not, there are things that could have been avoided. If Jarry didn’t have the craziest workload in the last 30 games of his regular season, he’d still be healthy. If we saw more of Puustinen, Doc, etc in different top 6 usage, when players went cold, we’d have something to see as options. If POJ was tried for more than a few games, we would see what the defense options could be if some blokes laid eggs or got hurt (Dumoulin).

You plan for contingencies and all possible scenarios and prep for the playoffs at a certain point, I feel like this coach f***ed us before the playoffs started and then the third goalie became the story. Without anyone realizing we should have never been in that position if Jarry wasn’t playing like 95% of the starts in his last 25-30 game stretch.