Confirmed with Link: Kap files for salary arbitration, still has no idea what he's doing in any zone

Will Kapanen and the Pens reach an agreement before arbitration?

  • Sure

    Votes: 34 34.7%
  • No

    Votes: 10 10.2%
  • Sign and trade! Sign and trade!

    Votes: 8 8.2%
  • Ron Sleepy Hextall says "Relax"

    Votes: 11 11.2%
  • I'm annoyed he's still here

    Votes: 12 12.2%
  • WHY IS HE STILL HERE??!?

    Votes: 19 19.4%
  • I thought we had a done deal, man.

    Votes: 4 4.1%

  • Total voters
    98
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jmelm

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If it gets all the way to Arbitration he's definitely getting 2.5-2.75M. People thinking it's under 2M are delusional.

If he gets all the way to arbitration, then it's a massive failure by the front office. For all the jokes we make or decisions we disagree with of Burke & Hextall, there's no chance they are THAT stupid to have rolled the dice and not know exactly what's going on.

They have something up their sleeve and we just haven't seen it yet, most likely a trade given he hasn't been signed days or weeks ago. No way they would leave this to chance, especially given their cap situation.

Hextall sounds confident that a deal will be done so I am not going to worry about it.

Posturing through the media, nothing more. There's a move coming, no question.

Guys, this isn't any different from Puljujarvi. He wants out of Edmonton, they said they would accommodate and are working on trade options, and yet they still QO'd him and he filed for arbitration. No different here with Kapanen. Wake up people!!
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
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I think we just need to get to our game, players need to keep their heads, play hard every shift. It's a game of puck battles, one at a time, and we're going to take it one game at a time.

You need a good tagline. Every good Pittsburgh coach has a tagline.

Maybe "Crunch Factor" or how bout some cheesebag shit like "We do the work in advance" or "our currency here is sweat" etc.
 
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Re: Archi
He's the style that we need that we've been missing. Certainly there are better players in that style but availability and pricing and signability are all things to be considered. He's a 20pt scorer per 82. He's an energetic, wrecking ball type. He's Tanev-lite. Last year, I'd suggest we wanted Tanev on the ice more than ZAR and Simon. So let's get the guy some games in before we judge him too harshly.

Re: Kapanen
Going to arb makes sense for him but I still think it's a risk. He may not get the answers he wants. That said, knowing Hextall, he's probably offering $1mil x 1yr and he wants $3mil x 3yrs. I'm guessing 1-2yr x $2.5-2.75. I think that makes sense for both sides. My hope is that Kappy sees that as the wake up call that nothing is nor should be guaranteed. This could conceivably be the last NHL deal he gets so he needs to get going if he wants money. But really, the only way for him to go is up. He's not going to get much worse. At his worse, he's still a serviceable 3RW. But we need him to do more. We need him performing at the 2RW status. Injuries will happen. We need him to be able to cover.

Re: Hextall's comments
That's fine if he sees Archi as the depth at forward. While we may look light, I would suggest that means we may see more WBS guys up to cover for injuries. We may see more of Bjorkqvist, Hallander, Puustinen, maybe Poulin or Legare, certainly DOC and Zohorna...I mean we have some intriguing guys in WBS and it's time to see what we have in them.

Who knows, maybe Pickering or Broz or Plante push...
 

jmelm

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Re: Archi
He's the style that we need that we've been missing. Certainly there are better players in that style but availability and pricing and signability are all things to be considered. He's a 20pt scorer per 82. He's an energetic, wrecking ball type. He's Tanev-lite. Last year, I'd suggest we wanted Tanev on the ice more than ZAR and Simon. So let's get the guy some games in before we judge him too harshly.

Re: Kapanen
Going to arb makes sense for him but I still think it's a risk. He may not get the answers he wants. That said, knowing Hextall, he's probably offering $1mil x 1yr and he wants $3mil x 3yrs. I'm guessing 1-2yr x $2.5-2.75. I think that makes sense for both sides. My hope is that Kappy sees that as the wake up call that nothing is nor should be guaranteed. This could conceivably be the last NHL deal he gets so he needs to get going if he wants money. But really, the only way for him to go is up. He's not going to get much worse. At his worse, he's still a serviceable 3RW. But we need him to do more. We need him performing at the 2RW status. Injuries will happen. We need him to be able to cover.

Re: Hextall's comments
That's fine if he sees Archi as the depth at forward. While we may look light, I would suggest that means we may see more WBS guys up to cover for injuries. We may see more of Bjorkqvist, Hallander, Puustinen, maybe Poulin or Legare, certainly DOC and Zohorna...I mean we have some intriguing guys in WBS and it's time to see what we have in them.

Who knows, maybe Pickering or Broz or Plante push...

I have no problem with Archibald -- he can be sent to the minors and not count one penny against the cap.

Re. Kapanen: the only thing that makes sense, if he's not traded (which I find difficult to believe he won't be), is that he's signed for an amount that makes him either (A) relatively easy to trade or (B) able to send to WBS without having too much count towards the cap. If we sign him for $2.25 or $2.5M and he sucks again (which is more likely than not), then we'll have lost $1M-1.25M in cap space, or paying another team an asset to take him. There's just WAY too much risk here if it's not a 1 year deal at a salary less than $2M and if that was going to happen, that contract should have been signed long before now. I'm highly skeptical.

Re. the others you mentioned: Pickering is extremely under-developed physically. Broz and Plante have exactly zero % chance of making the team, as they won't even be in WBS. Plante will be in the USHL and Broz at college. Legare has a long way to go before showing he has a chance to even have a cup of coffee in the NHL and Poulin has to either be dominant for > half a year to even have a chance of getting more than a game or two this year. Oh, and Bjorkqvist is back in Finland.

The only guys who have a shot to contribute among our youngsters this year are DOC (for sure), Zohorna (has a spot to lose to Poehling or someone else), Puustinen and Hallander. Everyone else is a pipe dream.
 

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I have no problem with Archibald -- he can be sent to the minors and not count one penny against the cap.

Re. Kapanen: the only thing that makes sense, if he's not traded (which I find difficult to believe he won't be), is that he's signed for an amount that makes him either (A) relatively easy to trade or (B) able to send to WBS without having too much count towards the cap. If we sign him for $2.25 or $2.5M and he sucks again (which is more likely than not), then we'll have lost $1M-1.25M in cap space, or paying another team an asset to take him. There's just WAY too much risk here if it's not a 1 year deal at a salary less than $2M and if that was going to happen, that contract should have been signed long before now. I'm highly skeptical.

Re. the others you mentioned: Pickering is extremely under-developed physically. Broz and Plante have exactly zero % chance of making the team, as they won't even be in WBS. Plante will be in the USHL and Broz at college. Legare has a long way to go before showing he has a chance to even have a cup of coffee in the NHL and Poulin has to either be dominant for > half a year to even have a chance of getting more than a game or two this year. Oh, and Bjorkqvist is back in Finland.

The only guys who have a shot to contribute among our youngsters this year are DOC (for sure), Zohorna (has a spot to lose to Poehling or someone else), Puustinen and Hallander. Everyone else is a pipe dream.
I know "sending them to WBS" is a popular fallback but realistically, I don't think Archi nor Kapanen make it through waivers, especially at their salary and cap hit (Kapanen's likely cap hit). That's a no-brainer pick-up for the likes of Arizona who then hope he rebounds so they can send him out for a pick at the TDL. Teams always tend to pick up guys like Archi on the waivers as well. So, I don't think that should be a realistic part of the discussion. If they thought Kapanen was a demotable asset, they wouldn't have qualified him. Worst case, you scratch him or trade him.

I was kidding on Pickering and Plante. They were the longest shots I could think of.

Zohorna is going to be a dime-a-dozen guy. If he was 5'10 180lbs, no one would want him on the roster so there is a bit of bias towards his height and weight despite the fact he doesn't use it to his advantage all that much. They should have a guy over in the Czech showing him videos of Lucic, Kreider, Hornqvist, Wilson, etc and encouraging him to morph his game around that style. Otherwise, you're Brian Boyle without the production.

But to your last sentence, that's 5 guys in depth...even if everyone else is a pipe dream. That's quite a few guys to be able to bring up.
 

HandshakeLine

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Realistically, the best option for upgrading the top 6 at this point besides signing Kadri or somehow making some weird insane trade for Miller (which BTW isn't happening), is to hope for a couple of our guys to have a hot start and a couple of trade pieces to start in a slump and maybe a team or two to goes into a tailspin early.

And let me be the first to point out that, no this is not VERY realistic, but it's still more realistic than trading for Miller now.
 
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HandshakeLine

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Nov 9, 2005
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Pictured: Kap's agent

5JcfOKC.png
 

Sidney the Kidney

One last time
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Realistically, the best option for upgrading the top 6 at this point besides signing Kadri or somehow making some weird insane trade for Miller (which BTW isn't happening), is to hope for a couple of our guys to have a hot start and a couple of trade pieces to start in a slump and maybe a team or two to goes into a tailspin early.

And let me be the first to point out that, no this is not VERY realistic, but it's still more realistic than trading for Miller now.

Maybe one of our fantastic forward prospects will come in to camp and kill it and perform like a top six ...

... hahahaha oh God I almost got through writing that entire thing without laughing.
 
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jmelm

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Which, IMO, would be a fail by management. This team needed to upgrade its forward group, not bring everyone back and call it a day.

Exactly. And we can’t rely on Zucker to play 82 games in the top 6 either. So the best solution would have been (and still should be) to get another top 6 forward and slot Zucker and everyone else down a spot.

But if we’re not able to make any legit additions, we need to at least change it up. Delete Kapanen and let Puustinen/Hallander battle it out for one bottom 6 RW spot. Have Poehling push Zohorna for the 4th line LW spot. Etc…

But we still need an addition up front, or failing that, at least a lateral “change”. Like Kapanen for Puljujarvi, or Kapanen for 50% retained Donskoi. Etc.
 

jmelm

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I know "sending them to WBS" is a popular fallback but realistically, I don't think Archi nor Kapanen make it through waivers, especially at their salary and cap hit (Kapanen's likely cap hit). That's a no-brainer pick-up for the likes of Arizona who then hope he rebounds so they can send him out for a pick at the TDL. Teams always tend to pick up guys like Archi on the waivers as well. So, I don't think that should be a realistic part of the discussion. If they thought Kapanen was a demotable asset, they wouldn't have qualified him. Worst case, you scratch him or trade him.

Zohorna is going to be a dime-a-dozen guy. If he was 5'10 180lbs, no one would want him on the roster so there is a bit of bias towards his height and weight despite the fact he doesn't use it to his advantage all that much. They should have a guy over in the Czech showing him videos of Lucic, Kreider, Hornqvist, Wilson, etc and encouraging him to morph his game around that style. Otherwise, you're Brian Boyle without the production.

But to your last sentence, that's 5 guys in depth...even if everyone else is a pipe dream. That's quite a few guys to be able to bring up.

I don't think a single person here would lose sleep if Archibald were to be claimed through waivers, since the general sentiment of him being signed was not popular. But even if you assume the front office wants him around, there's nothing to suggest he should be a full time NHLer. He's perfectly adept to sit in the press box as the 13th forward given what he brings (4th liner at most) and the $900K he's making.

Kapanen, on the other hand, cannot be paid $2M+ and be sitting in the press box. If he's being paid that much, he needs to be a consistent middle 6 contributor. How confident are we that's what's going to happen? I would have been perfectly fine to let him walk as a UFA and sign someone else, so I can only infer that either he was going to be re-signed for cheap (but there's no deal and now there's arbitration) or because he had some trade value and that's why he was qualified.

So if Kapanen is re-signed as sucks so badly that we're going to put him on waivers, then he damn well better get claimed or we'll be stuck with a substantial cap hit. So the concern about Kap getting claimed off waivers is nonexistent for me.

Re the others, here's how I would rank the guys who have a realistic shot at making the team -- leaving out Kapanen and any other additions:

1) DOC -- a sure bet to make this team as the 3rd (more likely) or 4th line LW
2) Zohorna & Poehling -- similar caliber of players and likely fighting for that same 4th line LW position.
3) Puustinen -- he's a more obvious Kapanen-type replacement for a scoring type RW.
4) Hallander -- he's more of a McGinn-type replacement as a 2 way and PK'ing RW if we want to replace McGinn with a guy who's making $2M less.

Given that Puusy and Hallander are waiver exempt, they will have to clearly outperform others to earn a spot, but it's within the realm of reason for them to do so.
 

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I don't think a single person here would lose sleep if Archibald were to be claimed through waivers, since the general sentiment of him being signed was not popular. But even if you assume the front office wants him around, there's nothing to suggest he should be a full time NHLer. He's perfectly adept to sit in the press box as the 13th forward given what he brings (4th liner at most) and the $900K he's making.

Kapanen, on the other hand, cannot be paid $2M+ and be sitting in the press box. If he's being paid that much, he needs to be a consistent middle 6 contributor. How confident are we that's what's going to happen? I would have been perfectly fine to let him walk as a UFA and sign someone else, so I can only infer that either he was going to be re-signed for cheap (but there's no deal and now there's arbitration) or because he had some trade value and that's why he was qualified.

So if Kapanen is re-signed as sucks so badly that we're going to put him on waivers, then he damn well better get claimed or we'll be stuck with a substantial cap hit. So the concern about Kap getting claimed off waivers is nonexistent for me.

Re the others, here's how I would rank the guys who have a realistic shot at making the team -- leaving out Kapanen and any other additions:

1) DOC -- a sure bet to make this team as the 3rd (more likely) or 4th line LW
2) Zohorna & Poehling -- similar caliber of players and likely fighting for that same 4th line LW position.
3) Puustinen -- he's a more obvious Kapanen-type replacement for a scoring type RW.
4) Hallander -- he's more of a McGinn-type replacement as a 2 way and PK'ing RW if we want to replace McGinn with a guy who's making $2M less.

Given that Puusy and Hallander are waiver exempt, they will have to clearly outperform others to earn a spot, but it's within the realm of reason for them to do so.
I'm going to disagree with you here quite a bit...but not necessarily in a major way.

First, "we" as in HFPens may not care but the GM and coaches will. You don't construct your roster in the off season with the attitude of "well if they get claimed, oh well". That level of flippancy is not how you become a GM and it's certainly not how you think as a GM. Again "we" may be okay with it but that's also why we type here and not on a Penguins front office letterhead.

I also think your calibration of players is way off. To suggest that DOC is a sure thing to make the team as a 3LW but Zohorna has to battle with Poehling? Poehling has the most games and production of the three. Zohorna has 25 games and 10 points. People need to pumps the brakes on him a bit. I would suggest they all provide a similar level of production and style.

Then comparing that to Archibald...Archi has a significantly higher production history. He would be comparable to McGinn. I would suggest Archi is McGinn-lite.

You're probably looking at a:

McGinn-Carter-Kapanen
Poehling-Bleuger-DOC

bottom 6 with Zohorna rotating with DOC. And I say that as a better case scenario since it's highly probably DOC starts in WBS with Archi taking his spot.

That all said, probably not hard to see who the new whipping boy will be since people can't look past someone who may think differently than them. Sad.
 
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3ladesof5teel

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Feb 20, 2012
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I guess this board always has to have something or a player to complain about or there wouldn't be a reason to post here

:D
 
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