Proposal: Kadri to Avs for 1st+?

[missionAvs]

Jost +16th overall pick.

Or something built around Erik Johnson

Absolutely not to the first (I've tossed a ton of flak at Jost since we drafted him but I liked what I saw in the playoffs) but a hell yeah to the second offer.

 

[qqaz]

Absolutely not to the first (I've tossed a ton of flak at Jost since we drafted him but I liked what I saw in the playoffs) but a hell yeah to the second offer.

Ok, so let's talk about Erik Johnson for a bit. I know him by reputation, but don't watch the Avs a lot. What's his play been like recently, and what's his future with COL look like?

 

[Echo Roku]

Ok, so let's talk about Erik Johnson for a bit. I know him by reputation, but don't watch the Avs a lot. What's his play been like recently, and what's his future with COL look like?

People overstate his recent decline (since the last impression he gave was while playing badly with a shoulder injury that needed surgery)

But he is on the decline. He’s the sort of the player that the Leafs want stylistically, but he’s only even feasibly available because he’s definitely past his prime and still on a 6mil a year contract

It’s not a trade that’ll happen for a ton of reasons

He’s a leader with the Avs and there is a sort of familial like loyalty the Avs will show him. Add to that he has a limited NMC

Also, while he may play the desired role with the Leafs well for a year or two, I do think the team would regret it a couple years down the line with that 6mil cap hit still there

Even on the Avs there is a non-zero chance he gets bought out by the Seattle expansion draft

People suggest it, but it really doesn’t seem realistic when you account for everything

 

[qqaz]

People overstate his recent decline (since the last impression he gave was while playing badly with a shoulder injury that’s needed surgery)

But he is on the decline. He’s the sort of the player that the Leafs want stylistically, but he’s only even feasibly available because he’s definitely past his prime and still on a 6mil a year contract

It’s not a trade that’ll happen for a ton of reasons

He’s a leader with the Avs and there is a sort of familial like loyalty the Avs will show him. Add to that he has a limited NMC

Also, while he may play the desired role with the Leafs well for a year or two, I do doubt it the team would regret it a couple years down the line with that 6mil cap hit still there

Even on the Avs there is a non-zero chance he gets bought out by the Seattle expansion draft

People suggest it, but it really doesn’t seem realistic when you account for everything

Thanks for the honest breakdown. Sounds about right to me.

EJ 5 years ago would be the perfect fit for the Maple Leafs today. But if the decline has already started and the Avs don't have the heart to move him, then the conversation is moot.

Shame.

 

[avsfan09]

OK, 16OA for a selfish guy (playoff suspensions) like Kadri? Nah.

The Avs window would be opened if we addressed the 2C position. 4thov is likely 2 years out from playing. Kadri's contract is three more seasons @4.5(I think) which is an amazing price for a 2 C. It ends right around the time that #4 will be coming in to take over his role. Kadri will always remain tradable due to his contract as well. All in all he's close to the perfect stop gap for us. I'd much rather go after him than pay Hayes 7 mill for 5+ years.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

The Avs window would be opened if we addressed the 2C position. 4thov is likely 2 years out from playing. Kadri's contract is three more seasons @4.5(I think) which is an amazing price for a 2 C. It ends right around the time that #4 will be coming in to take over his role. Kadri will always remain tradable due to his contract as well. All in all he's close to the perfect stop gap for us. I'd much rather go after him than pay Hayes 7 mill for 5+ years.

Are there really no other 2C's that could be a fit in the league? Kadri is fine, but he is Bozak v2. We're doing the Leafs a favor taking cap away from them and I feel like we are accepting the ugly friend because the hot friend is too much effort. I know Kadri has value, but he is the opposite of what the Avs have been doing in developing young guys and making it their team rather than bring in outsiders who could have a good/bad influence on the locker room.

I know it is just reputation from what we see, but Kadri seems like a douche in general.

Ok, so let's talk about Erik Johnson for a bit. I know him by reputation, but don't watch the Avs a lot. What's his play been like recently, and what's his future with COL look like?

He had a rough season offensively compared to his norm, but a lot of that could be due to Barrie/Girard taking over the powerplay and Johnson being asked to do more of the d zone faceoffs and PK. Plus he had shoulder surgery immediately following the playoffs which is where we really saw him play "bad" instead of just normal and not "good".

 

[Hasbro]

Re-read for Christ sakes haha. Not sure why so many people keep saying this.

Should have #16 in the title to alleviate confusion.

 

[avsfan09]

Should have #16 in the title to alleviate confusion.

Probably. It's habit from the Avs board where we generally call #4 the Ottawa pick.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

The Avs window would be opened if we addressed the 2C position. 4thov is likely 2 years out from playing. Kadri's contract is three more seasons @4.5(I think) which is an amazing price for a 2 C. It ends right around the time that #4 will be coming in to take over his role. Kadri will always remain tradable due to his contract as well. All in all he's close to the perfect stop gap for us. I'd much rather go after him than pay Hayes 7 mill for 5+ years.

Fortunately, our options aren't just Kadri and Hayes. The option I prefer is to slide Rantanen to the 2nd line and let the kids play. Kerfoot is serviceable with Mack/Landy, so let's see if Jost can continue to improve on what he showed in the playoffs while playing with Mikko. Or if Compher can figure out his consistency issues and become a viable 2nd liner. We still haven't seen 200 NHL games from either of them, so I'd rather not assume they have shown us their best NHL hockey yet.

 

[avsfan09]

Are there really no other 2C's that could be a fit in the league? Kadri is fine, but he is Bozak v2. We're doing the Leafs a favor taking cap away from them and I feel like we are accepting the ugly friend because the hot friend is too much effort. I know Kadri has value, but he is the opposite of what the Avs have been doing in developing young guys and making it their team rather than bring in outsiders who could have a good/bad influence on the locker room.

I know it is just reputation from what we see, but Kadri seems like a *****e in general.



He had a rough season offensively compared to his norm, but a lot of that could be due to Barrie/Girard taking over the powerplay and Johnson being asked to do more of the d zone faceoffs and PK. Plus he had shoulder surgery immediately following the playoffs which is where we really saw him play "bad" instead of just normal and not "good".

Kadri is a step or two above Bozak let's be honest. Kadri is appealing due to his contract and price. If we are going stop gap than he might be the best option. If we are trying to fill it long term than obviously not. It'll all come down to what's available. Personally I want to fill it long term but what is really available?

 

[avsfan09]

Fortunately, our options aren't just Kadri and Hayes. The option I prefer is to slide Rantanen to the 2nd line and let the kids play. Kerfoot is serviceable with Mack/Landy, so let's see if Jost can continue to improve on what he showed in the playoffs while playing with Mikko. Or if Compher can figure out his consistency issues and become a viable 2nd liner. We still haven't seen 200 NHL games from either of them, so I'd rather not assume they have shown us their best NHL hockey yet.

I'm surprised how much flack this is getting. Do you really want to go into next season without a proven center? Maybe if we get Panarin Jost will suffice but we definitely shouldn't waste anther season without help. There's also the possibility we could do what you say and look for someone to shake loose at the deadline.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

I'm surprised how much flack this is getting. Do you really want to go into next season without a proven center? Maybe if we get Panarin Jost will suffice but we definitely shouldn't waste anther season without help. There's also the possibility we could do what you say and look for someone to shake loose at the deadline.

We went into the last 2 seasons without a proven 2C and made the playoffs in consecutive years and won a playoff series for the first time in over a decade. So, I disagree with your premise that we're somehow wasting years and need to fix some roster problem in order to be successful. I consider the last two years pretty successful and want to see what this group can continue to do with a little more experience. Keeping our draft picks and prospects helps ensure that we have a steady supply of young talent. That's how you find long term solutions in today's NHL. You don't find them by trading 16OA for a 3 year bandaid.

 

[avsfan09]

We went into the last 2 seasons without a proven 2C and made the playoffs in consecutive years and won a playoff series for the first time in over a decade. So, I disagree with your premise that we're somehow wasting years and need to fix some roster problem in order to be successful. I consider the last two years pretty successful and want to see what this group can continue to do with a little more experience. Keeping our draft picks and prospects helps ensure that we have a steady supply of young talent. That's how you find long term solutions in today's NHL. You don't find them by trading 16OA for a 3 year bandaid.

If we had a 2c this season maybe we actually win?

 

[tucker3434]

We went into the last 2 seasons without a proven 2C and made the playoffs in consecutive years and won a playoff series for the first time in over a decade. So, I disagree with your premise that we're somehow wasting years and need to fix some roster problem in order to be successful. I consider the last two years pretty successful and want to see what this group can continue to do with a little more experience. Keeping our draft picks and prospects helps ensure that we have a steady supply of young talent. That's how you find long term solutions in today's NHL. You don't find them by trading 16OA for a 3 year bandaid.

The next 3 years might be our best shot. At some point, you gotta stop rebuilding and go for it.

 

[justafan22]

16 + Kerfoot?

 

[Halla]

Are there really no other 2C's that could be a fit in the league? Kadri is fine, but he is Bozak v2. We're doing the Leafs a favor taking cap away from them and I feel like we are accepting the ugly friend because the hot friend is too much effort. I know Kadri has value, but he is the opposite of what the Avs have been doing in developing young guys and making it their team rather than bring in outsiders who could have a good/bad influence on the locker room.

I know it is just reputation from what we see, but Kadri seems like a *****e in general.



He had a rough season offensively compared to his norm, but a lot of that could be due to Barrie/Girard taking over the powerplay and Johnson being asked to do more of the d zone faceoffs and PK. Plus he had shoulder surgery immediately following the playoffs which is where we really saw him play "bad" instead of just normal and not "good".

wait..what?

Bozak has hit 20g and 50pts ONCE in his career. Kadri has a pair of 30g seasonsand three 50+pt seasons (as well as a 44pt in 48 game lockout)

this is honestly one of the worst takes ive seen on here. also doing the leafs a favor taking a 2C on a sweetheart 4.5mil deal that can get 20-30g/45-60pts???

awful

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

If we had a 2c this season maybe we actually win?

You mean like Toronto did with Kadri? Oh wait...

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

The next 3 years might be our best shot. At some point, you gotta stop rebuilding and go for it.

What we've been doing through talent acquisition since the 2015 draft has produced more on ice success over the last two seasons than we've seen in over a decade. Why not see the build through, given the early success we've seen?

 

[avsfan09]

You mean like Toronto did with Kadri? Oh wait...

Fair point but people are overblowing this one incident imo. You can't judge a player on two incidents.

 

[Iracundia]

Thanks for the honest breakdown. Sounds about right to me.

EJ 5 years ago would be the perfect fit for the Maple Leafs today. But if the decline has already started and the Avs don't have the heart to move him, then the conversation is moot.

Shame.

This "familial like loyalty the Avs will show him" is absolute nonsense that a few posters like to spew. Never once have I heard Sakic or Bednar speak about EJ in this light. Never. If the Avs felt this way they would have given EJ a full NMC like Marleau got and would have been done with it. They didn't do that though. The 2 parties agreed to a M-NTC, NMC (must list 19 teams he can be traded to). EJ can be traded to over 61% of the NHL, this doesn't seem to be an absolute loyalty clause like some like to pretend he has with the team.

Every player starts to decline after a certain age and EJ is no exception. After rewatching your last 2 games vs Boston it was clear as day that EJ's play is multiple levels higher than Hainsey. I really noticed how much difficulty Hainsey had with his Dzone exits. Hainsey's complete lack of foot speed meant that he could rarely skate the puck out and maintain position because he would be run down quickly by the forecheckers. Playing on his offside meant he would end up back-hand flipping the puck out of the Dzone only to give up position. Even though EJ has slowed down some, his acceleration and overall speed is still much higher than Hainsey. EJ has a much higher ability to pass or skate the puck out of the Dzone. Both are physical but I feel that EJ has more of a meanstreak in front of the net and along the boards. EJ at this point in his career should be focused on being a stay-at-home D who occasionally rushes the puck and plays big PK minutes. A negative to EJ is the number of injuries he gets. I'm of the belief that if EJ played in the east and had a much easier travel schedule he would have more recuperation time and thus reduce the number of injuries he gets.

Now does this mean you make the trade for EJ? Nope, because there are better options that need to be visited (Trouba, Pesce and Larsson). But if those players don't become available then EJ falls next in line. Normally a RD like EJ wouldn't be available but the Avs are in a situation where recent drafts (Makar, Timmins) and trades (Girard) have changed the Avs fortunes on D. Teams can only afford to pay for two high-end D and I expect those two to be Barrie and Makar which makes EJ expendable. Our depth on D is like your depth upfront.

EJ+(retention/cap dump)
for
Kadri

Both players have some warts but both players fill the most important needs for each team.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Fair point but people are overblowing this one incident imo. You can't judge a player on two incidents.

Fine, instead of focusing on Kadri's incident, should I bring up Nashville acquiring Turris as their 2C and not winning? Or Dallas getting Spezza to be their 2C and not winning? Or the Avs having Duchene/Stastny/ROR and not winning? Having a 2C doesn't guarantee success in the playoffs.

 

[Morbo]

I think the Leafs need a capable 3rd line centre more than they need a mid round 1st.

Not saying they shouldn't move Kadri, but I don't see them doing it without bringing in another 3C.

 

[avsfan09]

Fine, instead of focusing on Kadri's incident, should I bring up Nashville acquiring Turris as their 2C and not winning? Or Dallas getting Spezza to be their 2C and not winning? Or the Avs having Duchene/Stastny/ROR and not winning? Having a 2C doesn't guarantee success in the playoffs.

No but not having one does?

 

[Halla]

Fine, instead of focusing on Kadri's incident, should I bring up Nashville acquiring Turris as their 2C and not winning? Or Dallas getting Spezza to be their 2C and not winning? Or the Avs having Duchene/Stastny/ROR and not winning? Having a 2C doesn't guarantee success in the playoffs.

seriously? when was the last time a team won the cup without a legit 2c? the hawks with handzus like a decade ago?

 

[Halla]

You mean like Toronto did with Kadri? Oh wait...

Toronto lost in 7 to the cup favorite, a team that has only lost 3 total times in rds 2-4.....
and they didnt even HAVE kadri the last few games SMH

basically you are arguing having a strong 1-2 C punch doesnt guarantee success yet pretty much ever winner in recent memory has been stacked up the middle (Crosby/Malkin, Backstrom/Kuznetsov, Kopitar/Carter) etc