Kadri on wing and other thoughts

[Teeder9]

Bozak was +2 just this year. And hey I'd be all for Kadri if he didn't play 3rd and 4th liners as a 2.

You do realize +/- has no bearing on a players ability right? You also realize QOC in any form also barely has any bearing on a players ability one way or the other right? We aren't talking a 10% difference here and 20 lost points. It's maybe 2-5 lost points playing top QOC and even 3rd line QOC. In fact, what you call top quality for Bozak and 3rd and 4th line quality for Kadri is players like Spezza for Bozak and Krecji for Kadri. You hinge your whole argument on these two things and they mean nothing minus the fun we all apparently have with you. In the big picture, Bozak faces worse comp than Sam Gagner. Can we assume that Gagner is just as good because he has to fight through offensive forwards trading chances 5-10 times a game? Of course not. No more than we can argue Grabs should or shouldn't have been bought out because of his +/- and QOC vs Bozak or Kadri. He made too much for his position in the lineup.

You trot out a stat and you know nothing about the actual numbers behind it or the difference overall in the players faced or what they do on the ice. Somehow you go from A to B thinking Bozak has faced Gretzky, lemiuex, and Orr all game while Kadri faces Colton Orr, Brent Gretzky, and Jocylen Lemieux. He faces 2nd lines mostly, with first lines and third lines thrown in. Significant difference here? No. All very good NHL players and in fact, if you go though NHL teams, most of the very good defensive players are on those lines, not the first. If you watch the games, he is the absolute driving force on his line. His line by the way consists of a winger whose by far best season came playing with Kessel, and another winger who is called the worst contract in the NHL, vs Bozak who plays with a bonifide top 10 offensive player in the league and a guy most consider one of the best contracts in the NHL.

Tell me, if you switched the two centers, who would you have faith in at least duplicating their seasons point values, Bozak or Kadri? You could argue the team would do better or worse all day long, but we just missed the playoffs. For me, 9th or last, no difference whatsoever.

 

[ULF_55]

For comparison sake, players Born 1989 and later ... with at least 46 points.

This places Kadri in fine company for young players. All of these players would have equal or greater value in a trade. Younger with more points or a higher PPG would have a difference. We won't worry about intangibles at this point, example Landeskog's leadership.

Player|Team|Position|Date of Birth|Height|Weight|Games|Goals|Assists|Points|Plus/Minus|PiMs|TOI/g
Tyler Seguin|DAL|C|January 31, 1992|73|195|80|37|47|84|16|18|19:20
Taylor Hall|EDM|L|November 14, 1991|73|201|75|27|53|80|-15|44|20:00
Jamie Benn|DAL|L|July 18, 1989|74|210|81|34|45|79|21|64|19:09
Erik Karlsson|OTT|D|May 31, 1990|72|180|82|20|54|74|-15|36|27:04:00
Matt Duchene|COL|C|January 16, 1991|71|200|71|23|47|70|8|19|18:29
John Tavares|NYI|C|September 20, 1990|73|205|59|24|42|66|-6|40|21:14
Jordan Eberle|EDM|R|May 15, 1990|71|180|80|28|37|65|-11|18|19:32
Gabriel Landeskog|COL|L|November 23, 1992|73|204|81|26|39|65|21|71|18:40
Ryan O'Reilly|COL|C|February 7, 1991|72|200|80|28|36|64|-1|2|19:49
Ryan Johansen|CBJ|C|July 31, 1992|75|223|82|33|30|63|3|43|17:38
Nathan MacKinnon|COL|C|September 1, 1995|72|182|82|24|39|63|20|26|17:20
Jakub Voracek|PHI|R|August 15, 1989|74|214|82|23|39|62|11|22|17:15
James van Riemsdyk|TOR|L|May 4, 1989|75|200|80|30|31|61|-9|50|21:03
Ondrej Palat|TBL|L|March 28, 1991|72|180|81|23|36|59|32|20|18:02
Kyle Turris|OTT|C|August 14, 1989|73|191|82|26|32|58|22|39|18:43
Derek Stepan|NYR|C|June 18, 1990|72|196|82|17|40|57|12|18|18:03
Jaden Schwartz|STL|L|June 25, 1992|70|190|80|25|31|56|28|27|17:31
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins|EDM|C|April 12, 1993|73|180|80|19|37|56|-12|26|20:23
Victor Hedman|TBL|D|December 18, 1990|78|233|75|13|42|55|5|53|22:26
Jeff Skinner|CAR|L|May 16, 1992|71|200|71|33|21|54|-14|22|17:11
Logan Couture|SJS|C|March 28, 1989|73|200|65|23|31|54|21|20|18:56
P.K. Subban|MTL|D|May 13, 1989|72|217|82|10|43|53|-4|81|24:36:00
Craig Smith|NSH|C|September 5, 1989|73|202|79|24|28|52|16|22|16:23
Reilly Smith|BOS|R|April 1, 1991|72|185|82|20|31|51|28|14|14:42
Mikkel Boedker|PHX|L|December 16, 1989|72|211|82|19|32|51|-9|20|17:24
Alex Pietrangelo|STL|D|January 18, 1990|75|201|81|8|43|51|20|32|25:21:00
Tyler Johnson|TBL|C|July 29, 1990|69|182|82|24|26|50|23|26|18:47
Nazem Kadri|TOR|C|October 6, 1990|72|188|78|20|30|50|-11|67|17:23
Gustav Nyquist|DET|R|September 1, 1989|71|185|57|28|20|48|16|10|16:51
Brandon Saad|CHI|L|October 27, 1992|73|202|78|19|28|47|20|20|16:17

 

[HonestHockey*]

You do realize +/- has no bearing on a players ability right? You also realize QOC in any form also barely has any bearing on a players ability one way or the other right? We aren't talking a 10% difference here and 20 lost points. It's maybe 2-5 lost points playing top QOC and even 3rd line QOC. In fact, what you call top quality for Bozak and 3rd and 4th line quality for Kadri is players like Spezza for Bozak and Krecji for Kadri. You hinge your whole argument on these two things and they mean nothing minus the fun we all apparently have with you. In the big picture, Bozak faces worse comp than Sam Gagner. Can we assume that Gagner is just as good because he has to fight through offensive forwards trading chances 5-10 times a game? Of course not. No more than we can argue Grabs should or shouldn't have been bought out because of his +/- and QOC vs Bozak or Kadri. He made too much for his position in the lineup.

You trot out a stat and you know nothing about the actual numbers behind it or the difference overall in the players faced or what they do on the ice. Somehow you go from A to B thinking Bozak has faced Gretzky, lemiuex, and Orr all game while Kadri faces Colton Orr, Brent Gretzky, and Jocylen Lemieux. He faces 2nd lines mostly, with first lines and third lines thrown in. Significant difference here? No. All very good NHL players and in fact, if you go though NHL teams, most of the very good defensive players are on those lines, not the first. If you watch the games, he is the absolute driving force on his line. His line by the way consists of a winger whose by far best season came playing with Kessel, and another winger who is called the worst contract in the NHL, vs Bozak who plays with a bonifide top 10 offensive player in the league and a guy most consider one of the best contracts in the NHL.

Tell me, if you switched the two centers, who would you have faith in at least duplicating their seasons point values, Bozak or Kadri? You could argue the team would do better or worse all day long, but we just missed the playoffs. For me, 9th or last, no difference whatsoever.

with all of the ******** in this post I have a hard time containing myself.

Where to begin.

Bozak faced the second stiffest competition in the league in QoC for centerman. Sam Gagner was 67. Kadri 95. That's 94 centres in the NHL facing stiffer competition. Yep Gagner faced better competition even though the numbers say different.

You don't understand the significance of one center having to carry the load and by a long shot. Bozak faces higher QoC than any LA King center. Kopitar, Carter, and Richards all face higher QoC than Kadri. That's a huge discrepancy. And a huge problem. Until we get a 2 center we are screwed.

 

[DaveT83*]

I love Kadri - but he needs to be insulated physically to be effective.

He's too small to be slotted in with Bozak, Bolland.
He's too small to play with Clarkson/Lupul/Kessel
The rest of the team simply aren't finishers.


The knock against Kadri isn't on his abilities. But the lack of opportunities the organization has proved him since his arrival.


Its funny that fans echo the same sentiment for our Best Players:
-Dion needs a better partner
-Kessel needs better line mates

But for our prospects its "do it on your own or leave"

 

[Joey Hoser]

We clearly need to get this guy out of town so he can stop holding back Clarkson.

 

[ULF_55]

We clearly need to get this guy out of town so he can stop holding back Clarkson.

Well, we shouldn't underestimate the talent the Devils had up the middle.

They were good enough to make the SCF, so it isn't fair to expect Kadri to be that good.

People have to be more patient, and perhaps Kadri will be good enough to be a key player on a team like the Devils if he keeps improving.

 

[Teeder9]

with all of the ******** in this post I have a hard time containing myself.

Where to begin.

Bozak faced the second stiffest competition in the league in QoC for centerman. Sam Gagner was 67. Kadri 95. That's 94 centres in the NHL facing stiffer competition. Yep Gagner faced better competition even though the numbers say different.

You don't understand the significance of one center having to carry the load and by a long shot. Bozak faces higher QoC than any LA King center. Kopitar, Carter, and Richards all face higher QoC than Kadri. That's a huge discrepancy. And a huge problem. Until we get a 2 center we are screwed.

Corsi QOC He's far down the list- http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67#

As far as him doing anything? He plays with two of the best players in hockey, let alone his team. There is no significance anymore. Do it with Kadri's wingers and hold your off. zone time and get back to me on how effective he really is

 

[HonestHockey*]

Corsi QOC He's far down the list- http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67#

As far as him doing anything? He plays with two of the best players in hockey, let alone his team. There is no significance anymore. Do it with Kadri's wingers and hold your off. zone time and get back to me on how effective he really is

Oh hey I agree with that regarding Corsi QoC. No way he can make up for the defensive liabilities of his linemates having to face that high of QoC night in night out.

If in the second part you are talking Bozak neither of us know. He's never played elsewhere. He's already proven he can be very effective with Lupul so who knows.

 

[HonestHockey*]

We clearly need to get this guy out of town so he can stop holding back Clarkson.

Odd how Clarkson produced 30 and then 15 goals (shortened season) before coming here. Clearing some talent let down as line mates.

 

[Teeder9]

Odd how Clarkson produced 30 and then 15 goals (shortened season) before coming here. Clearing some talent let down as line mates.

And yet, when it comes to QOT he is an absolute blackhole for Kadri, or maybe that's Lupul. I'll let you decide

 

[Teeder9]

Oh hey I agree with that regarding Corsi QoC. No way he can make up for the defensive liabilities of his linemates having to face that high of QoC night in night out.

If in the second part you are talking Bozak neither of us know. He's never played elsewhere. He's already proven he can be very effective with Lupul so who knows.

So now it's his linemates holding him back?

 

[agropop]

with all of the ******** in this post I have a hard time containing myself.

Where to begin.

Bozak faced the second stiffest competition in the league in QoC for centerman. Sam Gagner was 67. Kadri 95. That's 94 centres in the NHL facing stiffer competition. Yep Gagner faced better competition even though the numbers say different.

You don't understand the significance of one center having to carry the load and by a long shot. Bozak faces higher QoC than any LA King center. Kopitar, Carter, and Richards all face higher QoC than Kadri. That's a huge discrepancy. And a huge problem. Until we get a 2 center we are screwed.

If Bozak and Kadri were to face off against each other, who would register the higher QoC?

 

[HonestHockey*]

So now it's his linemates holding him back?

Nope. Still not having a 2nd line centre to take some ice against some QoC is the problem.

 

[HonestHockey*]

And yet, when it comes to QOT he is an absolute blackhole for Kadri, or maybe that's Lupul. I'll let you decide

Yep 30 and 15. You tell me what happened?

 

[Teeder9]

Nope. Still not having a 2nd line centre to take some ice against some QoC is the problem.

We should revisit Kadri playing with Kessel/JVR and having Holland/McClement as his 2nd center

 

[HonestHockey*]

If Bozak and Kadri were to face off against each other, who would register the higher QoC?

Kadri and not even close.

 

[HonestHockey*]

We should revisit Kadri playing with Kessel/JVR and having Holland/McClement as his 2nd center

Yep it worked so well they had to try JVR at centre.

 

[ULF_55]

Kopitar, Carter, Richards
versus
Bozak, Kadri, Holland

Does it matter who gets more ice time with Bozak and Kadri?

 

[HonestHockey*]

Kopitar, Carter, Richards
versus
Bozak, Kadri, Holland

Does it matter who gets more ice time with Bozak and Kadri?

Needs to be fixed.

 

[Mess]

Kopitar, Carter, Richards
versus
Bozak, Kadri, Holland

Does it matter who gets more ice time with Bozak and Kadri?

If you don't have any serious aspirations of competing then it truly doesn't matter who gets more ice time as that is not going to effect team competitiveness any.

You simply can't make chicken salad out of chicken feathers and I think an upgrade at center is the only way to improve the team in comparison to teams that are strong Cup contenders.

Moving Kadri to the wing would only occur if Leafs were actually successful in improving the position via trade or UFA and then only if it didn't come at Nazem expense.