Value of: Kadri for rebuilding assets

[strictlyrandy]

Kadri is 25. Phaneuf is 31. One has a 7 mil caphit, the other has a 4.5 cap hit. Why would we ever make that trade?

I say this as a Leafs fan about an Ottawa player. Phaneuf is incredibly underrated imo. I don't have to say nice things about him but Phaneuf is a good player.

Interesting. A top pairing quality D is a need, yet you'd rather have a tweener.

Phaneuf isn't a bad player, I just don't think he's a top pairing quality player. That you'd rather have Kadri over Phaneuf speaks a lot.

 

[Magic Man]

By what measure?

Everything I've seen from him indicates that he's a solid top 4 and an iffy top pairing as of late. Doesn't even really produce much anymore. I can attribute that to a new team though. I think this season will be real telling, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

That being said, if you think he's a top pairing D and that's your need, would you trade Kadri straight up for him?

He is a top pairing dman. But, he's significantly older and more expensive. He was also a member of the team for 7 years. They've been there and done that.

Management spoke when they traded him and signed Kadri to a 6 year deal.

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

He is a top pairing dman. But, he's significantly older and more expensive. He was also a member of the team for 7 years. They've been there and done that.

Management spoke when they traded him and signed Kadri to a 6 year deal.

Exactly this.

Also in what world in kadri a tweener? He's a clear #2 by all counts and a good one at that.

 

[Rebuilt]

Nazem Kadri has become expendable with the acquisition of Matthews via the draft and projects to get out slotted by Nylander eventually.

Kadri is a clear cut 2C on rebuilding teams and a solid 3C on contenders.

Looking for (at-least one of):

• A young RHD with top 4 upside
• 1st round picks and 2nd round picks
• Quality prospects at the forward position
• Blue-chip goaltending prospects

Talk to us after the expansion draft.

 

[Bookman]

So much for my secret hope that Kadri's extension would put a stop to these threads....

 

[Quarter]

So much for my secret hope that Kadri's extension would put a stop to these threads....

We were all fools to doubt the anti-Kadri bandwagon.

 

[Marmoset]

To everyone saying I'm wrong:

Kadri is a mid 40 point centreman. That would be ok on its own, however he...

Is awful on face-offs
Doesn't really kill penalties
Is a dirty player. He's been suspended twice now in the last 2 years by the league for head hits. Its one thing to be an idiot like that on a low end team, but a playoff team isn't going to want a 2C that gets himself suspended like that.
Is incredibly immature. Not just getting suspended by his own team, but you never know when he's going to throw one of his tantrums after getting hit.

Kadri was 49.2% on faceoffs last season while effectively playing as the #1 centre. That is hardly awful.

Also, who cares if he doesn't kill penalties? It's quite common for forwards who play a lot on the PP to not kill a lot of penalties.

I can't believe there are some suggestions to trade him for picks. If you want to trade him for something of need, such as young defenceman, I can understand that. There is zero urgency to give him away for draft picks.

 

[LondonKendrick]

As a Leafs fan I'm sick of reading how great Kadri is, his '27 goals when you correct for his career shoot percentage' it's embarrassing, no other player in the league gets props for shots they don't score on. The reality was that Kadri was in a contract year and moved up in the lineup and took more chances to secure a spot.

Give Holland enough minutes and PP time and he'll put up 40 points too, Kadri is just a guy.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

As a Leafs fan I'm sick of reading how great Kadri is, his '27 goals when you correct for his career shoot percentage' it's embarrassing, no other player in the league gets props for shots they don't score on. The reality was that Kadri was in a contract year and moved up in the lineup and took more chances to secure a spot.

Give Holland enough minutes and PP time and he'll put up 40 points too, Kadri is just a guy.

He really wouldn't. If Holland is just as capable as Kadri why'd the Leafs re-sign Kadri long term while Holland had to go to arbitration?

 

[Mad Dog Tannen]

He really wouldn't. If Holland is just as capable as Kadri why'd the Leafs re-sign Kadri long term while Holland had to go to arbitration?

Why'd they sign Clarke to an albatross of a contract. Just because someone does something doesn't validate it as a correct decision.

Kadri is great 2/3c. Probably a 3c on half of NHL teams.

 

[JKG33]

-You expect one single player's possession numbers to change the fortunes of an entire team? Leafs went from one of the worst possession teams to the 13th best
-There are tons of good 2 way players that don't PK. Kadri was the #1C responsible for supplying all the offence last year. Why waste your number 1 offensive resource on the PK? He was excellent both ways 5 on 5. Look at his shot supression and takeaway numbers.
-Compared to his career shooting % he had an unlucky year. We aren't comparing him to Ovi here. We are comparing Kadri 2016 to past Kadri shooting.
-That was 2014/2015 man.

And this is the biggest point.

-So? He plays on the edge. Is that a bad thing? Keith is one of the dirtiest players in the NHL. Does that make him a bad player.

Duncan Keith cost his team a game in the playoffs because of his dirty play. Keith is an amazing player, one of the best D in the NHL. Does that make him a bad player?

The advanced stats bit was just me being an ass, and I apologize for that. If one thinks advanced stats are worth something than I can see why one might have a higher opinion of Kadri than those who don't.

I have a few problem with this whole #1C argument. You want to give Kadri the benefit of being a #1C, and how thats his excuse for not being a PK player. Yet this #1C only put up 45 points. Its no secret this was a development year for the Leafs, and long term Kadri is going to be a 2, ideally 3C. He's not a 60 point 1C. Might as well teach him to kill penalties, because if not he's significant;y less useful in those spots.

You want to say his shooting percentage should stay the same. But the thing is he shot 90 more times this past season than before. Thats a lot. Its not wonder his percentage took a hit. You don't just add that many shots and expect the percentage to stay the same. A good chunk of those are obviously of lower quality.

Keith can get a pass because he's a top 5 defenceman in this league. Do you think Chicago likes that he's dirty? **** no. But they put up with it because of how good he is. Kadri is barely a 2C, so he shouldn't get a pass for being dirty. He's easily replaceable, Keith isn't.

39 players were suspended last year should they all be traded.....

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...tracker-fine-raffi-torres-money-number-games/

27 the year before

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/2014-15-nhl-suspension-tracker/

Take a minute to read the names. Theres a lot of big name players in there.

People get suspended it happens you move on and Continue. Now if you can find me a quote of him saying ya the guy deserved it and **** it then I would agree. I would prefer some one who gets angry and passionate about the game over someone who floats out there for a paycheck.

How many of those players have been suspended multiple times? How many of those players have been fined for diving? How many of those players have been suspended by their own teams? Kadri getting suspended once isn't an issue on its own. The problem becomes when you add up everything, you get a guy with character issues.

Kadri was 49.2% on faceoffs last season while effectively playing as the #1 centre. That is hardly awful.

Also, who cares if he doesn't kill penalties? It's quite common for forwards who play a lot on the PP to not kill a lot of penalties.

I can't believe there are some suggestions to trade him for picks. If you want to trade him for something of need, such as young defenceman, I can understand that. There is zero urgency to give him away for draft picks.

It may not be awful, but its certainly not good. If your 1C is only putting up 45 points then you expect him to excel in other areas. One of those is faceoffs.

Again, he plays a lot of PP time but doesn't put up a lot of points. He won't be getting that kind of ice time long term. I addressed this earlier in my post, but he should be a guy thats killing penalties long term. The fact that he wasn't trusted to do that this year worries me.

 

[Mad Brills*]

Give Holland enough minutes and PP time and he'll put up 40 points too, Kadri is just a guy.

Holland would fold under the comp kadri plays against

 

[Albus Dumbledore]

Why'd they sign Clarke to an albatross of a contract. Just because someone does something doesn't validate it as a correct decision.

Kadri is great 2/3c. Probably a 3c on half of NHL teams.

Different management did that and totally different players. Kadri is entering his prime he should hit 50+ points this year unless his role gets reduced. Fine player to have on any team especially at 4.5 mil a year long term.

 

[JKG33]

Why'd they sign Clarke to an albatross of a contract. Just because someone does something doesn't validate it as a correct decision.

Kadri is great 2/3c. Probably a 3c on half of NHL teams.

I'd say over half, these are the teams he'd definitely be a 2C (or better) on:

Arizona
Carolina
New Jersey
Toronto
Vancouver

There might be a couple of debatable ones, so say a 2C on 10 teams at absolute best. That means he's a 3C (or worse) on the other 20 teams.

 

[JKG33]

Different management did that and totally different players. Kadri is entering his prime he should hit 50+ points this year unless his role gets reduced. Fine player to have on any team especially at 4.5 mil a year long term.

People have been saying this every year since his good lockout shortened season. Its been 3 years and he still hasn't scored over 50 points. At what point does it become he is what he is?

 

[X66]

Rather keep Kadri.

Great possession player with high end skill and plays with an edge. When his shooting percentage normalizes, he's going to make that contract a steal IMO.

Bozak is the on that is expendable moving forward.

In a year or two

Matthews
Nylander
Kadri

will be down the middle.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

Nazem Kadri has become expendable with the acquisition of Matthews via the draft and projects to get out slotted by Nylander eventually.

Kadri is a clear cut 2C on rebuilding teams and a solid 3C on contenders.

Looking for (at-least one of):

• A young RHD with top 4 upside
• 1st round picks and 2nd round picks
• Quality prospects at the forward position
• Blue-chip goaltending prospects

Hey you figured it out right there.

Kadri is a perfect 3C on a contender. Gritty and is a bit of a pest, has offensive production/skill, pretty good defensively, works hard and gives a ****. The Leafs are working to build a contender and nothing less (it may end up less but that is not what they are trying to build)

They just extended Kadri long term. When/if they contend Kadri will be a very good and important part of the teams 3rd line.

Next year he might be the 1C but yes in a perfect world he slides down to 3C.

Why do we want to trade that at his age?

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Why'd they sign Clarke to an albatross of a contract. Just because someone does something doesn't validate it as a correct decision.

Kadri is great 2/3c. Probably a 3c on half of NHL teams.

Completely different management group and players involved in both cases.

If you don't want to look at re-signings, just look at how Babcock utilized them. It's clear as day he prefers Kadri to Holland.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

Interesting. A top pairing quality D is a need, yet you'd rather have a tweener.

Phaneuf isn't a bad player, I just don't think he's a top pairing quality player. That you'd rather have Kadri over Phaneuf speaks a lot.

Does it speak to how much certain Leafs fans appreciate Kadri?

I personally wouldn't take Dion back for free because I don't want him on the team at all, at any cost. While I absolutely love Kadri and think he's a slow but sure developer and will be an important part of this team in the next 5-7 years for most of those years.

Maybe I'm an idiot but I get Tucker vibes from Kadri, not necessarily the exact same players but I can see a similar impact in the future. Tucker might be my favourite Leafs player so yeah, I'm a Kadri fan and want to see how it plays out and the idea of just trading him off for some goalie prospect or whatever sounds really stupid to me.

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

Does it speak to how much certain Leafs fans appreciate Kadri?

I personally wouldn't take Dion back for free because I don't want him on the team at all, at any cost. While I absolutely love Kadri and think he's a slow but sure developer and will be an important part of this team in the next 5-7 years for most of those years.

Maybe I'm an idiot but I get Tucker vibes from Kadri, not necessarily the exact same players but I can see a similar impact in the future. Tucker might be my favourite Leafs player so yeah, I'm a Kadri fan and want to see how it plays out and the idea of just trading him off for some goalie prospect or whatever sounds really stupid to me.

I see Tucker in Kadri too. That is why I love him as a player so much.

 

[Kitchener Boy]

I see Tucker in Kadri too. That is why I love him as a player so much.

3 years in a row Kadri has been suspended for hits to the head.

2013/14 Minnesota Wild goaltender Niklas Backstrom.
2014/15 Edmonton Oilers forward Matt Fraser.
2015/16 Detroit Red Wings Luke Glendening.

Get rid of him serial offender.

 

[Magic Man]

3 years in a row Kadri has been suspended for hits to the head.

2013/14 Minnesota Wild goaltender Niklas Backstrom.
2014/15 Edmonton Oilers forward Matt Fraser.
2015/16 Detroit Red Wings Luke Glendening.

Get rid of him serial offender.

Good. It's wildly entertaining. Hockey is there to entertain.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

That's the most confusing part of this thread. He's clearly a winger.

I know you love saying things just to try and get under the leafs fans skin but come on, how in the world is he "Clearly a winger"?

He played in the NHL last season as a center with very good success, played all year in the AHL as a center with amazing success and will split center duties this year with Matthews (strong side faceoffs) according to Babcock.

So how is he clearly a winger?

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

3 years in a row Kadri has been suspended for hits to the head.

2013/14 Minnesota Wild goaltender Niklas Backstrom.
2014/15 Edmonton Oilers forward Matt Fraser.
2015/16 Detroit Red Wings Luke Glendening.

Get rid of him serial offender.

He needs to be careful going forward.

Like I say, he is developing slowly into a defined role which seems to come from his couching they want him to be a bit dirty, agitate and be hated by other teams.

He's also pretty skilled and has learned to become quite good defensively.

I expect him to be hated very much by other teams fans infact the more hate he gets the better he is doing.

But he needs to be careful with the suspension stuff going forward and I'm pretty sure Leafs management and Kadri are very aware of that.

He is clearly valued given his extension and Babcock clearly sees what us Kadri fans see.

Kadri could easily pass into POS territory very fast but he's just slightly dirty right now and hopefully can keep it that way and help win games as part of the core when things start to really matter and you want a guy that can go out there and get the other team riled up and lose their focus.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

I know you love saying things just to try and get under the leafs fans skin but come on, how in the world is he "Clearly a winger"?

He played in the NHL last season as a center with very good success, played all year in the AHL as a center with amazing success and will split center duties this year with Matthews (strong side faceoffs) according to Babcock.

So how is he clearly a winger?

He's clearly a center that's where he looks like a natural. Don't take the bait! I'm fine with him on the wing but he plays and thinks like a center.