Sportsnet: Kadri deserves Leafs’ top-line role

[mcleex]

Kadri wasn't that great last night but he has definitely improved on his face-offs. Right now I wouldn't touch anything as both lines seem to be clicking.

 

[false bobo]

Why bother when the first line and second line are both scoring?

Exactly. Leave it as is. Those two lines are the least of our worries right now, IMO.

 

[StuckOutHere]

Shouldn't the question be whether the team is better with Bozak somewhere else and Kadri on the first line not just whether or not the first line is better?

As a team concept sure, but we are debating the merits of Kadri vs Bozak. I think Bozak should be on the top line at the moment. Both lines are scoring and in reality the Kadri line is getting the most TOI anyways. My big issue is the hesitance to try Kadri on the 1st line when things do go dry. The Leafs have shown resistance to the very thought of trying it and that's what baffles me.

Conspiracy theorist here, but I bet Kadri is on the 1st line next year after we lock him up at 2nd line money.

 

[WilliamNylander]

Kadri wasn't that great last night but he has definitely improved on his face-offs. Right now I wouldn't touch anything as both lines seem to be clicking.

lol what? kadri and lupul were our best players.

absolutely dominated duchene last night on posession

 

[ACC1224]

Kadri wasn't that great last night but he has definitely improved on his face-offs. Right now I wouldn't touch anything as both lines seem to be clicking.

Agreed, he and Lupul seemed to struggle until the 3rd.

 

[Kelly]

Nah, don't throw all your eggs in one basket, let Bozak mooch off of Kessel and JVR, and let Kadri create his own offense on the 2nd line with Lupes. Spread out that offense, and boost our secondary scoring.

He should be on the 1st PP though with Kessel and JVR lining up beside him, though.

 

[false bobo]

As a team concept sure, but we are debating the merits of Kadri vs Bozak. I think Bozak should be on the top line at the moment. Both lines are scoring and in reality the Kadri line is getting the most TOI anyways. My big issue is the hesitance to try Kadri on the 1st line when things do go dry. The Leafs have shown resistance to the very thought of trying it and that's what baffles me.

Conspiracy theorist here, but I bet Kadri is on the 1st line next year after we lock him up at 2nd line money.

I recall Kadri getting time alongside Kessel and JVR in prior seasons. What resistance are you talking about?

 

[hockeyes]

I recall Kadri getting time alongside Kessel and JVR in prior seasons. What resistance are you talking about?

Pretty sure that was only because Bozak was injured, they didn't really have a choice.

 

[Bravid Nonahan]

IMO:

JVR-Kadri-Kessel
Lupul-Bozak-Winnik

<<

JVR-Bozak-Kessel
Lupul-Kadri-Winnik


In the top scenario, the 1st line presumably gets a bit better, but the 2nd line gets a lot worse IMO

 

[Semantics]

Does anyone ever stop to think that Bozak's corsi numbers could be poor because of someone like Kessel? His sample size away from Kessel is too small to judge because the majority of of it is when hes in the defensive zone to take a draw.

Yes we have. The short of it is that it's not just that Bozak's Corsi is bad, a number of other metrics are too. For example, last year he was one of the worst forwards at defensive zone exits, barely better than the goons. And he was also one of the worst forwards at offensive zone entrances. Meanwhile, Kessel was the top forward on the Leafs at both. A player can't possibly fare so poorly at moving the puck and be a strong possession force on the line.

I'm not saying Kessel is a good possession player in his own right though. There's a lot more to driving possession than zone exits and entrances. I'd say that overall, Bozak and Kessel are both pretty mediocre at driving possession and when you put them together you get a line that's continuously hemmed into it's own zone. They are an elite line at scoring on the rush though.

Secondly, if Bozak was a good driver of possession you'd see some sign of it even without Kessel. But the WOWY stats over his career show that he makes almost all of his teammates WORSE in terms of possession when playing with them. And there are zone adjusted versions of the stats to account for unfavorable zone starts. So sure, without Kessel last year he was out in defensive situations with guys like Kulemin and McClement. Nobody expects his production or Corsi to be good in those situations. But a first line center ought to be able to make third liners better, not worse. We can't blame it all on his linemates or zone starts without Kessel.

Also, remember, there were several games two years ago and maybe even last year where Kadri played with Colton Orr. He made Frattin look like an NHL player. Kozun looked great with him. Now Winnik does. Pretty much the only players he hasn't made look better are Kessel-JVR last year, but I'd love to see what he could do with them when we actually have healthy NHL-calibre players on the other three lines.

Edit: I'm with everyone saying don't put all your eggs in one basket though. If we're going to experiment I'd rather see Santorelli on the first line just to see what he can do with skilled linemates.

 

[ALEXJD93]

Kadri has had more icetime than Bozak in each of the last two games.

both wins, of course.

Vs. NYR

Kadri: 18:08es, 1:38pp, 0:00sh, 19:46tot ---- 50.0fo%
Bozak: 14:48es, 2:43pp, 0:27sh, 17:58tot --- 66.7fo%

Vs. COL

Kadri: 16:30es, 3:45pp, 0:00sh, 20:15tot ----- 68.8fo%
Bozak: 13:46es, 5:21pp, 0:36sh, 19:43tot ---- 57.7fo%



The second line has been awesome, and our best ES line, and Randy has started to give them the bulk of the ES icetime as a result. The Kadri line already HAS been our 1st line at even strength the past two games. Not sure we need to change anything there.


The better question here might be on the PP - because Kadri certainly should be on the #1 PP unit. It's pretty incredible that he's been a top-30 scoring centre in his first two full nhl seasons...WITHOUT getting 1st unit PP time.

Good post

 

[James Duthie]

Leave it where it is, Bozak has good chemistry with Kessel. Unless Kadri builds the same or even greater amount of chemistry with Kessel, there's no point of changing it. Besides, Lupul and Kadri have been solid these past 2 games. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[Peasy]

The question isn't whether or not the first line is working with Bozak. They are clearly getting their points. The question is whether it would work better with Kadri.

Cant get much better than a 30-30 player and a PPG player.

 

[On-the-Fly]

Yes we have. The short of it is that it's not just that Bozak's Corsi is bad, a number of other metrics are too. For example, last year he was one of the worst forwards at defensive zone exits, barely better than the goons. And he was also one of the worst forwards at offensive zone entrances. Meanwhile, Kessel was the top forward on the Leafs at both. A player can't possibly fare so poorly at moving the puck and be a strong possession force on the line.

I'm not saying Kessel is a good possession player in his own right though. There's a lot more to driving possession than zone exits and entrances. I'd say that overall, Bozak and Kessel are both pretty mediocre at driving possession and when you put them together you get a line that's continuously hemmed into it's own zone. They are an elite line at scoring on the rush though.

Secondly, if Bozak was a good driver of possession you'd see some sign of it even without Kessel. But the WOWY stats over his career show that he makes almost all of his teammates WORSE in terms of possession when playing with them. And there are zone adjusted versions of the stats to account for unfavorable zone starts. So sure, without Kessel last year he was out in defensive situations with guys like Kulemin and McClement. Nobody expects his production or Corsi to be good in those situations. But a first line center ought to be able to make third liners better, not worse. We can't blame it all on his linemates or zone starts without Kessel.

Also, remember, there were several games two years ago and maybe even last year where Kadri played with Colton Orr. He made Frattin look like an NHL player. Kozun looked great with him. Now Winnik does. Pretty much the only players he hasn't made look better are Kessel-JVR last year, but I'd love to see what he could do with them when we actually have healthy NHL-calibre players on the other three lines.

Edit: I'm with everyone saying don't put all your eggs in one basket though. If we're going to experiment I'd rather see Santorelli on the first line just to see what he can do with skilled linemates.

That's depressing.

Neverminding experiment and thinking for longer term, if Kadri's play is starting to force the conversation, and he continues to develop into a more valuable hockey player, he might force his way onto the top line. And if Bozak can't get his stats up outside of playing on the top line, then there is a huge question mark that needs to be addressed. I'd rather have that situation highlighted sooner rather than later.

 

[mikebel111*]

I didn't think Kadri was very good last night.

Because of a couple bad shifts in the third?
That line was good again

 

[zeke]

probably because that idiot Ferraro said in the third that Kadri hadn't had a good game, so that's what fans now think.

 

[ACC1224]

Because of a couple bad shifts in the third?
That line was good again

I thought he and Lupul looked out of sync in the 1st and 2nd. I've seen them play better. Those I sat with felt the same.

 

[bankerwannabe*]

Kadri has had more icetime than Bozak in each of the last two games.

both wins, of course.

You see the correlation too, huh?

 

[glasses91]

probably because that idiot Ferraro said in the third that Kadri hadn't had a good game, so that's what fans now think.

I wish I could mute the commentary like I do playing video games. That guy really gets on my nerves. He mixes up players, makes comments he should keep to himself and does the typical commentator jinx.

As for Kadri....He's just fine playing where he is...

 

[Bill Waters*]

Because of a couple bad shifts in the third?
That line was good again

A couple bad shifts is all it takes to blow a game. Kadri played a role in the Avs second goal. Bozak is playing better than him, given the matchups. I don't care about what some out-of-context possession/faceoff stats say. That said, kadri has looked stronger on the dot.

 

[ACC1224]

probably because that idiot Ferraro said in the third that Kadri hadn't had a good game, so that's what fans now think.

I wasn't sitting with Ferraro.

 

[Purity*]

Bozak has the healthy lead in scoring right now either way.

However just like the Bozak tire-pumpers preach all the time, points aren't everything. I can say with confidence that Kadri has been better in almost every other aspect so far. I predict by games 15-20 Kadri will be ahead of him in points. He also has far superior advanced stats.

That being said I'm still pretty impressed with Bozak so far.

I do however really want to see Kadri get a shot on the #1PP unit. Randy hasn't even gave him a look there for some reason. Kadri's proven that he's dynamite on the PP.

 

[bankerwannabe*]

Bozak has the healthy lead in scoring right now either way.

Tyler Bozak - 3 goals
Nazem Kadri - 2 goals

That's healthy as ****.

 

[MapleLeafs9]

Tyler Bozak - 3 goals
Nazem Kadri - 2 goals

That's healthy as ****.

Bozak - 6 points
Kadri - 2 points

When people say scoring they usually mean total points.

 

[Leafidelity]

Kadri hasn't done anything this season that tells me we should take Bozak off the top line.