JVR at the deadline

[Pookie]

I mentioned this in another thread but the chances of JVR being a TDL move was always low even BEFORE the Boyle trade.

With that extra year of his contract whatever playoff bound team trading for him would likely risk losing him (or another key Asset) for nothing come expansion since most playoff teams already have stacked rosters.

He and Bozak have a much higher chance of being summer trades

You think the Leafs will want to trade a 28 year old scoring winger in the summer now?

I don't.

Imagine if they have some success and he is one of the top scorers.

We are in go for it mode now.

 

[White Shadow]

You think the Leafs will want to trade a 28 year old scoring winger in the summer now?

I don't.

Imagine if they have some success and he is one of the top scorers.

We are in go for it mode now.

Um, no we are not. Don't confuse, "on the rise" with, "win now."

 

[robertmac43]

i think the best strategy would be to wait until the off season. Let the team thats gtten us this far this year finish the season out.

 

[Pookie]

Um, no we are not. Don't confuse, "on the rise" with, "win now."

A 20 game rental? Clear signal.

Spin it any way that helps you sleep.

 

[Steven1562]

So we are "going for it" now? What the hell are we going for? Stanley Cup? Even the most optimistic fan knows we aren't good enough yet. Management knows too because they have won cups with other teams before. So trading for a 20 game rental 4C doesn't mean we are "going for it" just means they are giving our young players a little support. When we trade our 1st rounder for a player like Shattenkirk i will believe we are "going for it"

 

[Pookie]

So we are "going for it" now? What the hell are we going for? Stanley Cup? Even the most optimistic fan knows we aren't good enough yet. Management knows too because they have won cups with other teams before. So trading for a 20 game rental 4C doesn't mean we are "going for it" just means they are giving our young players a little support. When we trade our 1st rounder for a player like Shattenkirk i will believe we are "going for it"

What did you believe when they tried to sign Stamkos this offseason?

They wanted to shelter Kadri's development minutes?

This isn't a one off. It's a conscious desire to speed up.

Based on real business challenges and opportunities

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

What did you believe when they tried to sign Stamkos this offseason?

They wanted to shelter Kadri's development minutes?

This isn't a one off. It's a conscious desire to speed up.

Based on real business challenges and opportunities

It's also just good asset management, if you can get a free Stamkos and not break the bank you should.

 

[Menzinger]

You think the Leafs will want to trade a 28 year old scoring winger in the summer now?

I don't.

Imagine if they have some success and he is one of the top scorers.

We are in go for it mode now.

Even if they wanted to "win now" as you put it at all costs, that still doesn't blind them to the fact that 1) they'll have a tighter cap situation when JVR's contract expires, 2) the team still needs to improve defensively and he remains one of their best trade chips.

You're projecting way too much based on a relatively minor or trade.

Here's a recent article that highlights the situation facing GMs - they'll be more prone to trade for expiring contracts as they won't have to protect them at expansion, while "bigger trades" will likely happen later in the summer

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sp...ch-into-the-nhl-trade-deadline-414991884.html

 

[White Shadow]

A 20 game rental? Clear signal.

Spin it any way that helps you sleep.

I'm losing sleep over the signing of a 4th line center?

You've taken a thank you gift to the players and coach and spun it in your own head as a win now trade without even understanding the term win now.

 

[Pookie]

Even if they wanted to "win now" as you put it at all costs, that still doesn't blind them to the fact that 1) they'll have a tighter cap situation when JVR's contract expires, 2) the team still needs to improve defensively and he remains one of their best trade chips.

You're projecting way too much based on a relatively minor or trade.

Here's a recent article that highlights the situation facing GMs - they'll be more prone to trade for expiring contracts as they won't have to protect them at expansion, while "bigger trades" will likely happen later in the summer

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sp...ch-into-the-nhl-trade-deadline-414991884.html

Expansion protection is a real thing. Absolutely.

The dots are there though on our direction. Including the motivation.

Connect them if you want. Or not.

Doesn't matter. You or I don't have influence over it. Just sit back.

I'm not complaining. Just stating.

 

[Pookie]

I'm losing sleep over the signing of a 4th line center?

You've taken a thank you gift to the players and coach and spun it in your own head as a win now trade without even understanding the term win now.

Thanks.

Have a nice evening.

 

[Menzinger]

Expansion protection is a real thing. Absolutely.

The dots are there though on our direction. Including the motivation.

Connect them if you want. Or not.

Doesn't matter. You or I don't have influence over it. Just sit back.

I'm not complaining. Just stating.

I don't think the Boyle trade is enough of a "dot" to say JVR/Bozak won't be traded by the Leafs.

But absolutely this is all beyond our control

 

[Steven1562]

What did you believe when they tried to sign Stamkos this offseason?

They wanted to shelter Kadri's development minutes?

This isn't a one off. It's a conscious desire to speed up.

Based on real business challenges and opportunities

Every team was in on Stamkos. If you aren't your dumb because he's one of the best players in the NHL when healthy. Was the Martin signing the big time speed up move? A 4th line winger? If the Leafs really wanted to speed this up why didn't they sign Lucic, Ladd or Okposo to long term deals? They could have helped speed things up but we didn't sign them.

 

[sIDEsHOW93]

A 20 game rental? Clear signal.

Spin it any way that helps you sleep.

That appears to be what you're doing? Just replace sleep with "win debate". Lol. Are you always so cynical? How about we watch the rest of the season and then see how the offseason pans out before judging one move in which we traded one asset?

 

[White Shadow]

I don't think the Boyle trade is enough of a "dot" to say JVR/Bozak won't be traded by the Leafs.

But absolutely this is all beyond our control

There's just so much wrong with the premise I dont know where to start.

I think he's actually stating that teams who are not rebuilding don't trade away good players - Shattenkirk trade blows that assertion out of the water.

The exaggeration of equating a 4th line rental to win now is more laughable, though.

 

[Menzinger]

There's just so much wrong with the premise I dont know where to start.

I think he's actually stating that teams who are not rebuilding don't trade away good players - Shattenkirk trade blows that assertion out of the water.

The exaggeration of equating a 4th line rental to win now is more laughable, though.

Yeah, there's absolutely no reason a team can't be buyers and sellers at the same time. Happens to plenty of teams

 

[sIDEsHOW93]

There's just so much wrong with the premise I dont know where to start.

I think he's actually stating that teams who are not rebuilding don't trade away good players - Shattenkirk trade blows that assertion out of the water.

The exaggeration of equating a 4th line rental to win now is more laughable, though.

This. Oh God, so much this. Haha

 

[White Shadow]

This. Oh God, so much this. Haha

Pretty sure that dude was a troll and we just bit. Hate that.

He just rehashed a year old thread to stir up similar garbage.

 

[Crease Master]

Should the Leafs take advantage of a historically close playoff race and sell JVR. I think watching Leivo over the last couple of games that he could realistically replace a decent amount of the production that JVR brings. I know that the Leafs are shooting for the playoffs but this might be the most advantageous sellers market in years. Other than Landeskog, there is not a winger of JVR's quality available and the return could be more than in the offseason because I think that more players will become available with the expansion draft looming. I think Bozak is less valuable to the Leafs but we don't have the depth at centre that we have on the wings.

Am I wrong?

If JVR was going to be traded it would have already happened. He's going to finish out his contract as a Leaf and either resign or go ufa, but we aren't in a situation where we need to stockpile even more picks/prospects at the expense of flushing our season by trading him for futures. If JVR gets traded while they're fighting for a playoff spot, what sort of message does that send to the young players? If the Leafs were out of a playoff spot and facing an uphill battle then sure, think about selling assets. However we're in a playoff spot, we've played excellent hockey all season and with the goaltending we've had we are a good team. You can't tear down forever man, or you just Edmonton it up.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

-/-
Rielly/ZaitsevGardiner
-/Carrick

Rielly and Zaitsev at this point in their careers are not first pairing players.

Gardiner, Rielly, Zaitsev are easy second pairing guys right now. Any one of them will be exposed in a 1st pairing role. There is no way to hide that.

You bump Rielly down and Gardiner up - Gards is exposed and Rielly's play goes up.

Rielly is basically a sacrificial lamb this season. Babcock probably expected a bigger jump in his development and it just didn't happen - nothing you can do about it now.

The worry is playing above his head could further restrict his developing.

If we take an impartial view of his game - we've seen either no progression in his offence or defense and regression in both his offense and his defense.

So the biggest issue with this team is and will continue to be the defense for the foreseeable future.

I don't think Rielly has regressed at all if you consider his zone usuage / quality of opponent this year.

 

[White Shadow]

If JVR was going to be traded it would have already happened. He's going to finish out his contract as a Leaf and either resign or go ufa, but we aren't in a situation where we need to stockpile even more picks/prospects at the expense of flushing our season by trading him for futures. If JVR gets traded while they're fighting for a playoff spot, what sort of message does that send to the young players? If the Leafs were out of a playoff spot and facing an uphill battle then sure, think about selling assets. However we're in a playoff spot, we've played excellent hockey all season and with the goaltending we've had we are a good team. You can't tear down forever man, or you just Edmonton it up.

Why can't you move JVR in the summer when you are neither in nor out of a playoff spot?

Trade him directly or indirectly for an area of need like defense and in no way does it send a message to the team that you are going backwards. It says, we have identified an area of need and we are going to get better by trading something we have in surplus for something we need.

 

[The CyNick]

Certain poster coming off whacky ITT. Try and guess which one.

 

[sIDEsHOW93]

Why can't you move JVR in the summer when you are neither in nor out of a playoff spot?

Trade him directly or indirectly for an area of need like defense and in no way does it send a message to the team that you are going backwards. It says, we have identified an area of need and we are going to get better by trading something we have in surplus for something we need.

Dude you are nailing it. Hive mind style haha.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Why can't you move JVR in the summer when you are neither in nor out of a playoff spot?

Trade him directly or indirectly for an area of need like defense and in no way does it send a message to the team that you are going backwards. It says, we have identified an area of need and we are going to get better by trading something we have in surplus for something we need.

Agreed. I just don't understand the level of alarm from a few Leaf fans who think we're throwing our rebuild out the window with the trade for a 4th liner and giving up a spare piece we already had who probably will not amount to even close to being a 4th liner.

 

[Pookie]

Pretty sure that dude was a troll and we just bit. Hate that.

He just rehashed a year old thread to stir up similar garbage.

I guess when you don't agree with something the easiest thing to do is overlook the statement and dismiss it.

Maybe even attack the person as a "troll."

So that's nice.

I guess Ito avoid offending you won't include direct quotes and links to articles about "pressure" on Shanahan to win, the money they are losing by not winning and the fact that being better next season was promised months before we won the lottery.

And for the record, since I included direct links to the Toronto Star you might want to take the mainstream media off your bookmark list.

Nothing to see there. At least nothing you don't want to see.

Don't like? Don't click.