Junior Hockey: Additions and Losses

[mk80]

Another loss for the WSHL, another gain for the NA3HL. Especially getting another much needed South Division team. Although for the NA3HL this is a transfer of the Coulee Region Chill membership to OKC



As Bus League Hockey points out the NA3 logo is the same one still as of this post shown on the WSHL Teams list. If you click the website link from the WSHL page it goes to the NA3HL team's website as well. Stats - Western States Hockey League

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Another loss for the WSHL, another gain for the NA3HL. Especially getting another much needed South Division team. Although for the NA3HL this is a transfer of the Coulee Region Chill membership to OKC



As Bus League Hockey points out the NA3 logo is the same one still as of this post shown on the WSHL Teams list. If you click the website link from the WSHL page it goes to the NA3HL team's website as well. Stats - Western States Hockey League

I'm guessing this is the beginning of the end for the WSHL. WSHL OKC Blazer owner Jake Runey likely saw the future ahead and it was not in the WSHL, so he bought one of the available dormant NA3HL franchises.

Looking to the rest of the shattered remains of the league.
Valencia: done for the season because they have no rink.
El Paso: possible NAHL candidate? They have the facility and attendance, yet not the business model. The draft already happened, camps are happening soon. If it were to happen, they would need to do it fast.
Wichita: probably needs to join the NA3HL. They are now on a huge island, they could certainly fit in the NA3HL south division.
Dallas: share facilities with the Mid-Cities Jr. Stares. Doubt the NA3HL would let two teams in the same facility.
Bellingham/Seattle/Canadian teams: on islands for travel, not appealing for any team or league in the USA. Would do well to join a Canadian Jr. B league like the KIJHL and still exist.

 

[mk80]

I'm guessing this is the beginning of the end for the WSHL. WSHL OKC Blazer owner Jake Runey likely saw the future ahead and it was not in the WSHL, so he bought one of the available dormant NA3HL franchises.

Looking to the rest of the shattered remains of the league.
Valencia: done for the season because they have no rink.
El Paso: possible NAHL candidate? They have the facility and attendance, yet not the business model. The draft already happened, camps are happening soon. If it were to happen, they would need to do it fast.
Wichita: probably needs to join the NA3HL. They are now on a huge island, they could certainly fit in the NA3HL south division.
Dallas: share facilities with the Mid-Cities Jr. Stares. Doubt the NA3HL would let two teams in the same facility.
Bellingham/Seattle/Canadian teams: on islands for travel, not appealing for any team or league in the USA. Would do well to join a Canadian Jr. B league like the KIJHL and still exist.

It certainly doesn't look good for them. If the WSHL manages to play in any form this season it's going to crumble at the end of the season, and it's limping right now.

For El Paso it's not exactly too late for a hypothetical NAHL move, the NAHL held an added supplemental draft as a result of coronavirus impacts to scouting and camps, the real NAHL draft happens in June. And the NAHL draft is structured based on how many players a team needs, some teams draft 3 players, others draft 8. So there's a little time left but they'd need to hurry. It's also possible and more likely they could just follow the others into the NA3HL South, or the USPHL.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

It certainly doesn't look good for them. If the WSHL manages to play in any form this season it's going to crumble at the end of the season, and it's limping right now.

For El Paso it's not exactly too late for a hypothetical NAHL move, the NAHL held an added supplemental draft as a result of coronavirus impacts to scouting and camps, the real NAHL draft happens in June. And the NAHL draft is structured based on how many players a team needs, some teams draft 3 players, others draft 8. So there's a little time left but they'd need to hurry. It's also possible and more likely they could just follow the others into the NA3HL South, or the USPHL.

They would really be on an island in the USPHL. I would like to see them join the NAHL, but the NA3HL would be a much better fit I think like you said. I was hoping maybe you could use your position of power to predict or force through a move either way.

 

[mk80]

They would really be on an island in the USPHL. I would like to see them join the NAHL, but the NA3HL would be a much better fit I think like you said.

The NAHL and 3HL I think provide the best fits for them. And I think they could become one of the strongest teams in the NAHL if they were to join and adapt their business model, it wouldn't be overnight, but I think they could be strong in the NA South. I threw in the USPHL if they wanted to be stubborn and avoid the NA leagues, while they would be on island that wouldn't change, as their closest road trips in the WSHL are/were Pueblo, CO which is 8 hours by bus, and the Pueblo team was a WSHL expansion this past year, and the Dallas Snipers are their next closest trip at 9 hours.

This past season they played on the road at Valencia, Dallas, OKC, Pueblo, Wichita, and Northern Colorado, plus the Vegas Showcase.

In the new USPHL division they'd have Pueblo, Northern Colorado and Ogden as their 3 closest trips.

NA3 road trips: College Station, TX, DFW x2 (Brahmas, Mid Cities), OKC, Louisiana, and Atlanta
NAHL would be: Albuquerque, Odessa, Amarillo, Corpus Christi, DFW, Wichita Falls, Shreveport, KC that's assuming the NAHL would want a 9 team south division or do some shuffling and move KC to the Midwest. And tack on one Blaine, MN showcase in either league.

 

[kij]

I love the positivity but we have not even addressed the roster implications of joining either NA league for El Paso. They had 41 players rostered last season, 12 were American. The year before they had 45 players, 19 of which were American. I may need a refresher on the import rules but I believe the NA3 still limits you to 2 imports, which can increase to I believe 4 if you are returning 2 imports from the last season. Then I believe the NAHL is either 4 or 6 imports per team. No doubt, a jump to the NAHL would open up a brand new pool of players and they could be successful. In the NA3, with the way Coach Herman recruits and likes his guys to play, I just don't see how he could possibly survive in the NA3 south even though he would by far have the best facilities in the division, if not league (although the new rink for the North Iowa Bulls is beautiful).

 

[mk80]

I love the positivity but we have not even addressed the roster implications of joining either NA league for El Paso. They had 41 players rostered last season, 12 were American. The year before they had 45 players, 19 of which were American. I may need a refresher on the import rules but I believe the NA3 still limits you to 2 imports, which can increase to I believe 4 if you are returning 2 imports from the last season. Then I believe the NAHL is either 4 or 6 imports per team. No doubt, a jump to the NAHL would open up a brand new pool of players and they could be successful. In the NA3, with the way Coach Herman recruits and likes his guys to play, I just don't see how he could possibly survive in the NA3 south even though he would by far have the best facilities in the division, if not league (although the new rink for the North Iowa Bulls is beautiful).

Both the NA and NA3 are limited to 3 imports. So yes there would be a significant redesign of the roster, recruiting strategies can be changed though for either league, through tenders, the drafts, camps, and coaches hitting their recruiting pools, not to mention player advisors that are always lobbying for their players to join these teams. Worse case scenario, is a coaching change to bring in a coach(es) that have a recruiting strategy that better fits the NA or NA3. It would be different, and a challenge, especially if they did join the NA, but I don't think it's an impossible hurdle to overcome. Over the course of a season, teams in the NAHL, and 3HL also burn through a high rate of players.

 

[mk80]

I know Breezy Point is already listed as a loss on the OP, but to provide a bit of clarity as to their status, according to their latest Facebook post, they are taking the season off

Breezy Point North Stars Junior Hockey Team

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

I decided to open this up to all levels of junior hockey being affected for this upcoming season, no longer exclusively tier 3

PRESS RELEASE | Junior Monarchs

The Monarchs are no longer part of the USPHL junior divisions, which means the USPHL is down a free-to-play NCDC team along with a Premier team. The article states it was the USPHL that kicked them out of the NCDC because of poor on ice performance, but they weren't returning regardless because of branding issues with the local youth hockey program.

Wildcats Take Leave of Absence for 2020/21 Season

NOJHL Junior A Elliot Lake Wildcats are taking a leave of absence for this upcoming season, but they are intent on returning the team in the future.

 

[JMCx4]

I decided to open this up to all levels of junior hockey being affected for this upcoming season, no longer exclusively tier 3 ...

Oh, man, I don't deal well with change.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Oh, man, I don't deal well with change.

Apparently a lot of junior teams share your sentiment

 

[mk80]

So with all levels applicable that means I'll put you to work adding the NAHL to the OP.

Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Knights to Danbury Jr. Hat Tricks
Topeka Pilots to KC Scouts
St. Cloud Blizzard name change to St. Cloud Norseman
Add Witchita Falls Warriors

 

[CB1]

I decided to open this up to all levels of junior hockey being affected for this upcoming season, no longer exclusively tier 3

PRESS RELEASE | Junior Monarchs

The Monarchs are no longer part of the USPHL junior divisions, which means the USPHL is down a free-to-play NCDC team along with a Premier team. The article states it was the USPHL that kicked them out of the NCDC because of poor on ice performance, but they weren't returning regardless because of branding issues with the local youth hockey program.
....

Curious, do you guys think the USPHL NCDC programs will ever expand out of the northeast? For instance, I can't see how they could add a team from the southeast, unless they add a few to make the travel worthwhile, even then it may be a stretch.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Curious, do you guys think the USPHL NCDC programs will ever expand out of the northeast? For instance, I can't see how they could add a team from the southeast, unless they add a few to make the travel worthwhile, even then it may be a stretch.

I do not think the USPHL NCDC will ever expand out of the northeast. The Boston Mafia guys in charge of the league want it for their teams only, and their teams are all in the northeast only. They have their model. It works, just without nearly as many college commits as they originally planed. And most importantly the team owners usually make a lot of money. Some, like Bridgewater Bandits, tried the NCDC and didn't have the finances behind it, or heart to steal that much money, depending on how you look at it.

 

[mjhfb]

I do not think the USPHL NCDC will ever expand out of the northeast. The Boston Mafia guys in charge of the league want it for their teams only, and their teams are all in the northeast only. They have their model. It works, just without nearly as many college commits as they originally planed. And most importantly the team owners usually make a lot of money. Some, like Bridgewater Bandits, tried the NCDC and didn't have the finances behind it, or heart to steal that much money, depending on how you look at it.

I know Bandits went to Philly, but does anyone know who will be taking the open NCDC spot from vacated Monarchs? I've heard a few places, including NY.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

I know Bandits went to Philly, but does anyone know who will be taking the open NCDC spot from vacated Monarchs? I've heard a few places, including NY.

Nothing has been announced. I doubt they will allow that 13th NCDC franchise to go anywhere this close to the start of the season. Next season is entirely possible, but if they haven't done anything yet they likely will not.

 

[JMCx4]

Nothing has been announced. I doubt they will allow that 13th NCDC franchise to go anywhere this close to the start of the season. Next season is entirely possible, but if they haven't done anything yet they likely will not.

But what constitutes: "this close to the start of the season"? Has NCDC announced their start date for the next season? Historical timelines may not apply with hockey at many levels.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

But what constitutes: "this close to the start of the season"? Has NCDC announced their start date for the next season? Historical timelines may not apply with hockey at many levels.

The USPHL has announced they will restart exactly 4 months minus one day from today. USPHL Announces 2020-21 Season Start Dates

And with the states of New England announcing the reopening plan of ice hockey rinks, it's not only realistic but also likely they will be able to start at that time with minimal to no issues.

 

[kij]

I know Bandits went to Philly, but does anyone know who will be taking the open NCDC spot from vacated Monarchs? I've heard a few places, including NY.

When you say NY, do you mean state or city? There is probably a market for it up in Buffalo/Rochester/Syracuse but good luck down in NYC/Westchester/Long Island.

 

[BOS358]

When you say NY, do you mean state or city? There is probably a market for it up in Buffalo/Rochester/Syracuse but good luck down in NYC/Westchester/Long Island.

I know nothing and have heard nothing, but it would be more likely be somewhere upstate. The USPHL won't allow the NCDC teams to be within a certain radius of each other, which is why the Boston/ Bridgewater Bandits had to play their "home" games in Hyannis. PAL would block a team on Long Island, and CT would probably be able to veto a team in Westchester. As for NYC itself, good luck finding ice.

 

[kij]

I know nothing and have heard nothing, but it would be more likely be somewhere upstate. The USPHL won't allow the NCDC teams to be within a certain radius of each other, which is why the Boston/ Bridgewater Bandits had to play their "home" games in Hyannis. PAL would block a team on Long Island, and CT would probably be able to veto a team in Westchester. As for NYC itself, good luck finding ice.

Hence why I said good luck in the NYC area, no ice, no shot of drawing a crowd, no established organization to rob...err I mean crowdsource the top team already. I could see that franchise heading to Aviator over in Brooklyn if Stanaway and Co. desire to make the move. The not so humble Stanaway makes things very clear that he does things his own way and "makes USHL money." Maybe it could head south a little to one of the Virginia teams? I bet the USPHL would love to take a bigger stab at the markets the EHL has steadily expanded their footprint into.
Alas this is all merely speculation and I doubt the USPHL would repeat the mistakes of the NAHL and rush a franchise into a market just for the sake of doing it. I wouldn't be surprised to see 2 new teams join the NCDC for 2021-22 though.

 

[BOS358]

Alas this is all merely speculation and I doubt the USPHL would repeat the mistakes of the NAHL and rush a franchise into a market just for the sake of doing it. I wouldn't be surprised to see 2 new teams join the NCDC for 2021-22 though.

One would hope not, but when one sees how Richard Gallant runs the USPHL, you can't help but wonder how he was able to make all his money outside of hockey. He seems to ignore every principle of business when operating the league.

 

[mk80]

WSHL will go dormant for the season. Citing complications related to COVID as the reason.

 

[BOS358]

COVID-19: The best PR tool for failing businesses!

 

[kij]

WSHL will go dormant for the season. Citing complications related to COVID as the reason.

Honestly, not the last junior/college/pro league that will be making this call and it is a smart one. Tough for all the players who intended to play on WSHL member teams this year but there is not much that can be done. I have my doubts the league will return at all, but we shall see what happens in the coming days with the member teams. I would have liked for a more in-depth comment from the league in regards to how all the teams leaving the league impacted this decision and the future, though an extra year now gives them that much more time to prepare for life after that mass exodus. Best of luck to the league.