Junior Hockey: Additions and Losses

[SemireliableSource]

I literally just said guys from 2018-19 who went pro this past season, so, yes, all rookies. Looking to guys who went pro after 2016-17:

Peter Cicmanec - 134 points in 49 games with Wichita; 11 points in 22 games in the Slovakian third tier in 2019-20
Filip Ullgren - 97 points in 52 games with Ontario; 34 points in 30 games in the Swedish fourth tier in 2019-20 (worse offensive production than 2018-19)
Jan Marcilis - 93 points in 49 games with Butte; 54 points in 27 games in the English second tier (which is still significantly lower than the EIHL despite the EPIHL dying a few years ago)
and possibly the most successful one from the Top 10 in scoring that year: Petr Panacek - 91 points in 49 games with Butte, 69 points in 46 games with Carolina in the FPHL.
Chris Seto is a Canadian but he had 111 points in 50 games for Southern Oregon and last season he had 26 points in 48 games for one of the Chinese teams in the VHL

 

[BOS358]

Yeah, but if you take a little closer look. These guys aren't going to the KHL, Liiga, SHL, etc. They're not even going to DEL2, VHL, or EIHL level leagues.

Here's the thing, most people in North America who are considering the WSHL or the lower USPHL leagues won't know that. They'll just see a lengthy list of pro signings and think "holy ####, all those guys from that league are going pro? That sounds like I can do it too?"

The leagues do it for "optics" and "branding" to keep up appearances and make people think that scouts are flying from Borlange or Raahe or Rostock to see players on this side of the Atlantic. I know. I received a lecture about refusing to talk up a Swedish player who signed in Hockeyettan since I knew it was BS.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Here's the thing, most people in North America who are considering the WSHL or the lower USPHL leagues won't know that. They'll just see a lengthy list of pro signings and think "holy ####, all those guys from that league are going pro? That sounds like I can do it too?"

The leagues do it for "optics" and "branding" to keep up appearances and make people think that scouts are flying from Borlange or Raahe or Rostock to see players on this side of the Atlantic. I know. I received a lecture about refusing to talk up a Swedish player who signed in Hockeyettan since I knew it was BS.

Both leagues are largely money grubbing, along with the NA3HL. The head of the USPHL created the league out of ego and the vision of a ton of money rolling in. USA Hockey hasn't benefited much from it, but the NAHL has so far in that the Premier before and the NCDC now certainly aren't their equivalents, like the EJHL was. One or two NCDC teams could easily be NAHL teams, but the rest of the league isn't. But, bs sells to oblivious parents from all over the world. If any of them knew how to do two seconds worth of research, the league would see the number of teams cut in half over night.

 

[BOS358]

No argument here.

The funny thing was that when the EJHL existed, that league was bashed as the money-suck league that was ruining hockey and blah blah blah. The split was a complete disaster for both sides and neither side woke up until it was too late. Believe me, I had a front row seat to all of it, and I'll never forget hearing coaches say to me that "we made a mistake. This should have never happened." It's like, dude, I was saying that all year!

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

No argument here.

The funny thing was that when the EJHL existed, that league was bashed as the money-suck league that was ruining hockey and blah blah blah. The split was a complete disaster for both sides and neither side woke up until it was too late. Believe me, I had a front row seat to all of it, and I'll never forget hearing coaches say to me that "we made a mistake. This should have never happened." It's like, dude, I was saying that all year!

Money ruined it. easily I know some teams like Dineen's New England Jr. Coyotes had a youth camp in the summer that all players had to work in exchange for playing for free the entire year, essentially using the camp to fund the team. Now that was in the era of no showcases, wooden and two piece sticks, and much cheaper and shorter bus travel, but they were able to compete with the NAHL for recruits. Now, anyone who can pay is on a team.

We are starting to get this way in Europe. Professional teams are starting to not care about the development within their own organization/club, and they're having more and more players starting around the U12 level advance all the up to the professional team simply because the dad is able to pay.

This whole USPHL debacle is USA Hockey's fault. They encouraged the junior route instead of the midget route and enabled anyone with a checkbook to start or play on a team probably will fold within a few years. Now, the NAHL has their act together but mostly because many teams use NA3 affiliates as money makers, but still give the USPHL grief about their funding methods.

 

[mjhfb]

Money ruined it. easily I know some teams like Dineen's New England Jr. Coyotes had a youth camp in the summer that all players had to work in exchange for playing for free the entire year, essentially using the camp to fund the team. Now that was in the era of no showcases, wooden and two piece sticks, and much cheaper and shorter bus travel, but they were able to compete with the NAHL for recruits. Now, anyone who can pay is on a team.

We are starting to get this way in Europe. Professional teams are starting to not care about the development within their own organization/club, and they're having more and more players starting around the U12 level advance all the up to the professional team simply because the dad is able to pay.

This whole USPHL debacle is USA Hockey's fault. They encouraged the junior route instead of the midget route and enabled anyone with a checkbook to start or play on a team probably will fold within a few years. Now, the NAHL has their act together but mostly because many teams use NA3 affiliates as money makers, but still give the USPHL grief about their funding methods.

Unfortunately that man passing away created a ripple effect of problems which, looking back, affected both the EJHL (USPHL) and the MBHL (EHF).

 

[Chompskiii]

You guys seem like you know a lot about these leagues so I just have a question.
Is it more beneficial to play for a top team in the WSHL, like Edson, or a team in the German DNL, the top junior league in Germany?
I am talking pure development wise.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

You guys seem like you know a lot about these leagues so I just have a question.
Is it more beneficial to play for a top team in the WSHL, like Edson, or a team in the German DNL, the top junior league in Germany?
I am talking pure development wise.

Depends on a lot, there is no correct answer. Where are you trying to play? How much would you be playing on which team? Are you trying to advance to the NCAA, professional, or ACHA? Is money a factor? There is a lot that goes into it.

While Edson has been a top team, their only college advancement has been a single ACHA commitment. For professional advancement, there has been a few okay performers in the Division 1 and Division 2, the third and fourth tiers of Sweden. They are both respectable leagues, but certainly not high end advancements and other leagues have more advancements, which would imply better development.

The German development system varies as all leagues do, but some of the top teams like Adler Mannheim are comparable to lower end Canadian Junior A, which is miles better than the WSHL. Travel is going to be a lot better than the WSHL. If you are German, it might be better to practice more often and sleep in your own bed, which won't happen a lot in the WSHL, especially with half the teams leaving for another league.

This might be a better topic for discussion in the questions about junior hockey thread. Any and all questions about playing junior hockey

 

[kij]

You guys seem like you know a lot about these leagues so I just have a question.
Is it more beneficial to play for a top team in the WSHL, like Edson, or a team in the German DNL, the top junior league in Germany?
I am talking pure development wise.

Gotta agree with Barclay here. I played with Czechs, Canadians, Scots, and Norwegians in my time in juniors and then more Canadians, Swedes, and Germans in ACHA D1 college. If you're looking for development as a player, you will want juniors but where you go can vary significantly. Ask around about time spent in practice each week, is it systems or skills? How much time on each? Dedicated skills coach? Dedicated skills practices? What role would you get? I would also recommend waiting to see what the WSHL looks like next year before committing there as everything is in a state of flux.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Elmira Jr. Enforcers Set To Join USPHL Premier Division For 2020-21 Season. USPHL adds the Elmira Jr. Enforcers. I guess I missed the Elmira announcement from a few months ago. They are sharing a name, arena, and affiliation with the Fed team. “This is an exciting day for hockey in the Twin Tiers,” said FPHL Elmira Enforcers and PCGBL Elmira Pioneers owner Robbie Nichols. “There will be a lot of cooperation and synergy between the Enforcers and Jr. Enforcers that will add value for hockey fans and sponsors.” I am not a Robbie Nichols fan, this certainly doesn't help claims that the USPHL and the Fed are both money grabs.

 

[JMCx4]

So Elmira will now have prospects to feed their Prospects League roster? Self-fulfilling prophecy, I guess.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

So Elmira will now have prospects to feed their Prospects League roster? Self-fulfilling prophecy, I guess.

Perhaps. Or they could aim for running the team at a profit in order to help fund the Fed team. The Fed has been engaging in both of these practices with the GMHL in Ontario for years now.

 

[kij]

Elmira Jr. Enforcers Set To Join USPHL Premier Division For 2020-21 Season. USPHL adds the Elmira Jr. Enforcers. I guess I missed the Elmira announcement from a few months ago. They are sharing a name, arena, and affiliation with the Fed team. “This is an exciting day for hockey in the Twin Tiers,” said FPHL Elmira Enforcers and PCGBL Elmira Pioneers owner Robbie Nichols. “There will be a lot of cooperation and synergy between the Enforcers and Jr. Enforcers that will add value for hockey fans and sponsors.” I am not a Robbie Nichols fan, this certainly doesn't help claims that the USPHL and the Fed are both money grabs.

I guess this also explains the relocation of the Elmira Jr. Soaring Eagles up to Bay State after only a single season after leaving Binghamton. It has been well known that the USPHL is a money grab with average advertised tuition being 5 figures not including living.

 

[JMCx4]

... It has been well known that the USPHL is a money grab with average advertised tuition being 5 figures not including living.

That's 5 figures all to the left of the decimal point? Has anyone told the boys' parents that Harvard might be a cheaper way to go?

 

[kij]

That's 5 figures all to the left of the decimal point? Has anyone told the boys' parents that Harvard might be a cheaper way to go?

That is correct. Most teams charge upwards of $10,000 a year. Well, that is the sticker, I remember the PAL Jr. Islanders offering up an initial contract to me 3 years in a row (2016, 17, & 18) which cost $12,500 per season and as the year got closer and I went other routes, they would come back with much lower fees and would usually request that I billet a teammate even when I lived nearly an hour away.

 

[mk80]

I'm not sure Valencia has folded yet in the WSHL despite what was said in their rink closure announcement. It could be a slip up on the WSHL's part but the Flyers were listed in the team recruiting info that was put out the other day Team Recruitment Contacts - Western States Hockey League

 

[mk80]

Lateral move but posting it here to avoid any future confusion, the NAHL St. Cloud Blizzard have rebranded:



Edit: Sorry, I realized this only Tier III moves in this thread.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Lateral move but posting it here to avoid any future confusion, the NAHL St. Cloud Blizzard have rebranded:

The franchise has never had good attendance and did not work out in either Brookings or Alexandria. After pitiful attendance in St. Cloud year 1, I have doubts that a rebrand will change much of anything. NCAA St. Cloud State, an active high school hockey scene, along with an established and well-supported NA3HL team 10 minutes away across the river makes for a saturated hockey and entertainment market, as well as a puzzling relocation to begin with.

 

[mk80]

The franchise has never had good attendance and did not work out in either Brookings or Alexandria. After pitiful attendance in St. Cloud year 1, I have doubts that a rebrand will change much of anything. NCAA St. Cloud State, an active high school hockey scene, along with an established and well-supported NA3HL team 10 minutes away across the river makes for a saturated hockey and entertainment market, as well as a puzzling relocation to begin with.

Well I feel like last year would have been the best time to rebrand anyway, rather than coming in with the Blizzard identity then rebranding 1 year in. But oh well, I don't make those decisions.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Well I feel like last year would have been the best time to rebrand anyway, rather than coming in with the Blizzard identity then rebranding 1 year in. But oh well, I don't make those decisions.

Isn't the same guy who makes those decisions the one that made the decision to have the players drive themselves through a snow storm when the team bus broke down? And runs two pretty sketchy NA3HL also?

 

[mk80]

Isn't the same guy who makes those decisions the one that made the decision to have the players drive themselves through a snow storm when the team bus broke down? And runs two pretty sketchy NA3HL also?

Yes. Cavanatti, or however it's spelled is still the owner of the team.

 

[CB1]

It seems they are going for the complete overhaul with new coaches as well. Are they starting everything from scratch?

 

[mk80]

It seems they are going for the complete overhaul with new coaches as well. Are they starting everything from scratch?

Moe Mantha their former head coach just recently retired, which led to the new coaching staff as well

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

The EHL announces their league footprint for this upcoming season. It is short two teams from last season: Philadelphia Jr. Flyers and North Carolina Golden Bears. Usually the EHL announces team changes, but I haven't seen anything. It could be that the two new teams in Keene Eclipse and Protec Jr. Ducks are relocations of those two franchises.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Wooster Oilers Excited To Make Return To USPHL Premier in 2020-21

Wooster Oilers rejoin the USPHL after a one year absence.