MSZ
Car guy
renberg hardly played with lindros in the 1994 season
And a barely PPG winger with Lindros the next three years.
He is no Mogilny for sure.
renberg hardly played with lindros in the 1994 season
So JT?
2 big franchise centres drafted first overall exactly 20 years apart (pretty much a generation). Mats Sundin was just finishing his career when JT was drafted. Both were captains of NHL teams. Both have excellent goal scoring skills, very good playmakers. Both make players around them better. Who would you take on your team in their prime? JT really reminded me a lot of Sundin the way he can score goals as a centreman, particularly.
And a barely PPG winger with Lindros the next three years.
He is no Mogilny for sure.
I take Sundin too but the two are very comparable. Both made their wingers significantly better for theit entire careers basically.
I feel like a lot of people still have a scewed view of Marner. Tavares is the one that carried him. not the other way around. It's not a coincedence that Hyman and Marner both had career years playing with JT.
This is just wrong. The second that Marner got away from Blozak and JVR he started scoring at something like at 1.15 PPG pace. He was at roughly the same pace with Marleau and Kadri as he was with JT. Now, if they got rid of Hyman and put a real winger on that line then all three of them would hit 100 points but Marner was not carried by JT any more than JT was carried by Marner.
Who did John Tavares play with that was elite in New York? No one. Tavares carried the Islanders for a decade and got them to 3 playoff appearances during his time there. He scored over 80 points on 3 separate occasions, also had 2 seasons where he scored 46 points in 47 games and 66 points in 59 games. So I'm not sure where this idea that Marner is padding his stats, when it was Marner who saw a 25 point increase playing next to Tavares. There's even an article about players regressing once leaving the Islanders.Honestly, I love jt... but I take sundin 100 times out of 100. The guy shifted the ice every time he was on. He never had wingers the likes of marner (save mogilny* sp? for those 2 yrs) and he carried the team every year. Plus the consistency, an absolute lock for 70+ pts every single year like clockwork. This coming when it was clutch and grab and most of his career was when the offence couldn't get stretched as much due to 2 line passes still being a thing.
Who did John Tavares play with that was elite in New York? No one. Tavares carried the Islanders for a decade and got them to 3 playoff appearances during his time there. He scored over 80 points on 3 separate occasions, also had 2 seasons where he scored 46 points in 47 games and 66 points in 59 games. So I'm not sure where this idea that Marner is padding his stats, when it was Marner who saw a 25 point increase playing next to Tavares. There's even an article about players regressing once leaving the Islanders.
How John Tavares's linemates have cashed in post-Islanders - Sportsnet.ca
This chart is meaningless without context.
I never said you specifically stated Marner padded his stats, but it was pretty clear you were trying to infer it. This isn't the first time around here that people suggest Marner has padded his stats and by bringing him up as the reason Sundin is automatically better, completely ignores Tavares' time with the Islanders. Which is why I brought up how he made his line mates look better than they are, very similar to Sundin did, because that's what great centres do. You tried to side step the issue of linemates by quickly moving on from Mogilny , who mind you was a very great player even if injury prone. He was in Toronto for 3 seasons, including leading scorer with 79 points one year and you have to remember, the Leafs were not only built differently then, scoring wasn't as high as it is today either.Literally nowhere in my reply did I say marner was padding JT's stats. I did, however, raise a logical point that Mitch marners skill level is superior to any winger that sundin had in his tenure with the leafs. Tell me with a straight face (if you only want to argue point totals) that in a hypothetical scenario Sundin puts up as many points with marner flanking him as he did with nik freaking antropov
but the 80s/90s "clutch and grab" era as people are putting it (should be called the "way more entertaining hockey" era) had significantly higher scoring. Although Sundin only benefited from a handful of those seasons since scoring dipped pretty sharply around 1998 he still had it overall easier than Tavares the first 10 years of their careers. For comparison Tavares first 10 seasons in the league the GAA was 2.66 goals, 2.61 goals, 2.54 goals, 2.54 goals, 2.56 goals, 2.52 goals, 2.51 goals, 2.59 goals, 2.78 goals, 2.81 goals. For Sundin's first 10 season in the "way more entertaining hockey" era it was 3.35 goals, 3.37 goals, 3.53 goals, 3.14 goals, 2.89 goals, 3.04 goals, 2.80 goals, 2.53 goals, 2.56 goals, 2.64 goals.This isn't even close. It's Sundin every day. In fact, Sundin was better at practically every facet of the game. Faster, stronger, better slapshot, better wrist shot, better backhand, better passer, better defensively, top-5 player modern era in puck battles, ...
Tavares, with a much better supporting cast, just put up a career year, 47G & 88P. But he did that in an era with much higher league scoring -- 2.81 goals per game.
Mats came into the league just before the dead puck era took hold, and played most of his career when clutching-and-grabbing and waterskiing were legitimate defensive plays. If peak Mats were to play in today's NHL, the game would be a 60 minute Leafs power play.
Honestly, I love jt... but I take sundin 100 times out of 100. The guy shifted the ice every time he was on. He never had wingers the likes of marner (save mogilny* sp? for those 2 yrs) and he carried the team every year. Plus the consistency, an absolute lock for 70+ pts every single year like clockwork. This coming when it was clutch and grab and most of his career was when the offence couldn't get stretched as much due to 2 line passes still being a thing.
He hit 82 points in his rookie year and never hit 60 points after that.renberg was a good player. 40-50 pointer with grit. before renberg got injured he was a 70-80 pointer with lighting speed. not a bad player.
renberg was a good player. 40-50 pointer with grit. before renberg got injured he was a 70-80 pointer with lighting speed. not a bad player.