Proposal: Jost + Avs 1st for Second line center

[Foppberg]

Dont usually come here, but I know of a 2nd line Center that probably is available. Kevin Hayes, Think Kevin is only 26, and having his best season ever, and has been acting like a shutdown center as well.. The Rangers just gave him a 1 year deal.....to buy them some time. I KNOW the Rangers are wanting at least that 1st you've offered, not sure if your Jost kid is on their list of wants.

From what Ive read on the Rangers boards, he has already been somewhat "linked" to the AVS, but not sure in what capacity.

Source for being linked to the Avs?

 

[cgf]

Source for being linked to the Avs?

When he left college his decision was reportedly down to use & them.

 

[ConnorMcNugesaitl]

Yeah. I'd prefer to wait until the TDL to see if Edmonton or Florida's seasons go to **** and we can get Draisaitl or Trocheck with the Ottawa pick as the centerpiece instead. But assuming we didn't get that lucky then the Ottawa pick + a non-makar prospect would be a lot more interesting to me.

Though again our FO does love to bring in guys they've chased in the past, so I won't be shocked if they end up feeling differently about Hayes than I do.

I don't think either Draisaitl or Trochek will be available regardless oh how their teams season goes.

I don't think the Ottawa lottery ticket is as valuable as people think. Why value it highly when it could still easily be a pick outside of the top 10.

Also lol at calling Puljujarvi and Strome reclamation projects, dudes are 20.

 

[Gabe the Babe]

No interest in moving jost for a reclamation project like Strome or Pulju

To be fair. Jost is on his way to being a reclamation project in his own right.

That said. I’d do Josty for Strome before Pulju no question. Not sure what Strome has to offer down the line. But he seems to be a 40ish point guy at 20 and I’m not sure he’s as bad as you think he is.

 

[koyvoo]

You guys label young players (in the NHL!) busts way too early.

If these guys hadn’t cracked NHL lineups yet and were in their 4th year of junior getting close to two pts a game, everyone would still be going gaga over them. In actuality, they’re beyond that in total development.

 

[PensArmy]

How about Brassard from Pitt for Jost and 2nd

 

[tucker3434]

We aren’t good enough to trade away 1st rounders, and it’s a little early to put Jost of the clearance rack. We can afford to be patient. It isn’t like this was our year anyway.

 

[JLo217]

Jost+1st is too much for Hayes but too little for Zib (unless it’s Ottawa’s pick but that’s never happening)
Something around Jost for Hayes or the 1st+ for Hayes work

Isn’t Hayes a UFA at seasons end?

You won’t get a 1st either from Sakic for a UFA. Avs aren’t there yet. For Zib I’d say that offer isn’t far off. If the Avs added a B prospect it’s close.

 

[Larrybiv]

Source for being linked to the Avs?

Not a recent source, sorry. What i meant was actually what another poster in this thread said......it was Hayes whose last 2 teams in the running FOR HIM were the Rangers and Avs, and also heard rumors recently, but nothing concrete......just seems a strong possibility to me. If Hayes "has to go" then why not make it a good fit for him as long as the Rangers get what they want.......and the AVS have that extra 1st, where as other teams would be reluctant trading away their only 1st.

 

[Foppberg]

Not a recent source, sorry. What i meant was actually what another poster in this thread said......it was Hayes whose last 2 teams in the running FOR HIM were the Rangers and Avs, and also heard rumors recently, but nothing concrete......just seems a strong possibility to me. If Hayes "has to go" then why not make it a good fit for him as long as the Rangers get what they want.......and the AVS have that extra 1st, where as other teams would be reluctant trading away their only 1st.

Gotcha, I knew about the Avs being in the running for him, was pretty disappointed when it didn't happen.

But personally I have zero interest in trading our 1st unless we really solidify ourselves as a playoff team by the time of the TDL.

Would rather gamble at him hitting UFA and take our chances there.

 

[Larrybiv]

Avs and Rangers were his finalists out of college.

Doesn't make sense to pay a 1st, Jost or both for Hayes. He's not the answer. Zibanejad would be more preferred, but 1st + Jost is a tough one to pay given the Avs wouldn't even trade that for Skinner.

Read this yesterday, bypassed it and now feel the need to comment. I know i am bias here, but, if the Avs wouldnt do that for Skinner, than maybe its because theyre targeting the Rangers and Hayes as a BETTER option than Skinner. (Or, attempting to pry Zbad away) Skinner albeit more flashy than Kevin but couldnt shine his skates in 2 way play and SIZE. IMO, that wouldnt have been a bad trade, and may be overvaluing Jost.
He hasnt done anything at the nhl level (still may) and struggling.......right?
The groundwork is there for a Hayes/1st rounder, just depends on who wants what afterwards.

 

[Larrybiv]

Gotcha, I knew about the Avs being in the running for him, was pretty disappointed when it didn't happen.

But personally I have zero interest in trading our 1st unless we really solidify ourselves as a playoff team by the time of the TDL.

Would rather gamble at him hitting UFA and take our chances there.

Yes, i get you. Its a pretty big gamble waiting on the ufa thing. Rangers have boocoo cap space if they choose to go there. You guys have that extra pick and the time should be NOW for you guys to better your chances for the PO's "this season" and get your young group some PO experience. Of course thats just my opinion, and "I really want that 1st" lol.

 

[Foppberg]

Yes, i get you. Its a pretty big gamble waiting on the ufa thing. Rangers have boocoo cap space if they choose to go there. You guys have that extra pick and the time should be NOW for you guys to better your chances for the PO's "this season" and get your young group some PO experience. Of course thats just my opinion, and "I really want that 1st" lol.

Yeah of course. But if we're going to move our 1st I'd rather it be involved in a big trade for someone more than Hayes.

Like packaging up Jost + 1st + something else for a stud #2C, ROR would've been f***ing amazing.... sigh.

 

[hooverdam]

I don't see the need to throw Jost in for a trade for a center. Who is the center going to play with, then? We want to get away from Wilson in our top 6, not just improve the center he's playing with. Another center pushes Jost to wing, where he can develop better.

Echoing other Avs fans, if the Avs look like they're definitely in the playoffs, I'm comfortable trading the Avs first plus other small assets for a 2C, even if it's not a knock it out of the park 2C. I think someone like Hayes makes sense for the first (+ a smallish add). I'd do it straight up for Carter.

Jost added to the Avs first isn't going to move the needle for the calibre of center the Avs ideally need, so I'd be a little safer about it. Hayes alone would be really good and I know the Avs like him already. That would keep the Avs momentum going enough for me, even if he's still not that "let's go for it!" piece. I don't think that piece can be had this season. Hayes is still really good.

 

[DRW204]

I know Jost is young at only 20 years old, but how good is the guy/how good can he get? the analytics are pretty brutal and raw totals for production leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[TGWL]

I could see Jost + 1st for Zibanejad a good deal for both team. Seems quite fair here from a neutral fan.

Last year, maybe...probably. This year, likely not. Where do the Rangers go after that? Push Hayes up to #1C, lose or trade Hayes and push Chytil up to #1C? I still don't know if he's going to have a long future as a C, or eventually be a winger in the NHL.

If we're risking Zibanejad, we're probably looking for pick in a range where we see potential of somebody replacing him 1 day. I don't know if Jost would be that guy, yet. Plus Rangers aren't doing as bad as on-paper would predict in the beginning of the season. They won't tank and they won't off-load Zibanejad unless blown away with an offer, or Rangers fall to the bottom of the league.

 

[A91]

No interest in moving jost for a reclamation project like Strome or Pulju

If those guys are reclamation projects then so is Jost.

 

[hooverdam]

If those guys are reclamation projects then so is Jost.

This is a little disingenuous. Jost hasn't been jerked around for two years by his organization. The Avs are trying to let him grow into a role he may not be able to grow into, at least not at 20 years old, but that doesn't make him a project. It makes him not ready yet, which is fair considering the league he came from.

Strome and Puljujärvi have proven all they can at lower levels but can't seem to put it together at the NHL level. There's a lot more tape on them to look at developmentally, especially Strome. Jost so far has developed into a capable defensive forward who needs to work on his offense; that's still a big question mark for him, no doubt, but there's still potential.

Strome and Puljujärvi kind of are what they are at this point, which is inconsistent and unable to stick in the NHL. And I don't believe that's totally on them, because neither have been giving the chance that Jost has, but it is what it is at this point. The Oilers tend to spit out a lot of reclamation projects just because they're so bad at developing and supporting players.

 

[A91]

This is a little disingenuous. Jost hasn't been jerked around for two years by his organization. The Avs are trying to let him grow into a role he may not be able to grow into, at least not at 20 years old, but that doesn't make him a project. It makes him not ready yet, which is fair considering the league he came from.

Strome and Puljujärvi have proven all they can at lower levels but can't seem to put it together at the NHL level. There's a lot more tape on them to look at developmentally, especially Strome. Jost so far has developed into a capable defensive forward who needs to work on his offense; that's still a big question mark for him, no doubt, but there's still potential.

Strome and Puljujärvi kind of are what they are at this point, which is inconsistent and unable to stick in the NHL. And I don't believe that's totally on them, because neither have been giving the chance that Jost has, but it is what it is at this point. The Oilers tend to spit out a lot of reclamation projects just because they're so bad at developing and supporting players.

Huh? Is UND not one of the best developmental programs anymore? He played there 1 season after the BCHL.

I understand what you are saying, and for the most part it's a fair take. That being said I dont think you understand the Pool-Party situation all that well. Puljujarvi is only 7 days older than Jost and produced at an almost identical rate last season, and he can hold his own defensively. Not his fault the coaching staff is jerking him around (which you mentioned).
If Jost has been given a better chance and is "still developing" then how is Pulju a "project" when you yourself said he hasnt been given a fair chance to prove himself? Especially considering their age and production is as close to identical as you can get?

You mean Yakupov? Contrary to popular belief we actually develop players pretty decently.

 

[cgf]

I know Jost is young at only 20 years old, but how good is the guy/how good can he get? the analytics are pretty brutal and raw totals for production leaves a lot to be desired.

His problem is he lacks the skating to stay at center. He's smart, he's skilled, he battles, but he just can't make an impact going both ways down the middle. On the wing of a quality top 6 C, I see him breaking out for 50+ while being an excellent two-way guy when he has less ice to cover

I don't think either Draisaitl or Trochek will be available regardless oh how their teams season goes.

I don't think the Ottawa lottery ticket is as valuable as people think. Why value it highly when it could still easily be a pick outside of the top 10.

Also lol at calling Puljujarvi and Strome reclamation projects, dudes are 20.

I don't think either would become available either, but I'd have to check before pulling the trigger on the Ottawa pick+ for Zibby instead.

ATM you may be right, but closer to the deadline it should be a lot clearer whether that pick was locked into the top 10. And at the TDL is when I'd expect such a move to actually go down.

I'll address what I said about Pulju & Strome below, but I didn't like either much as prospects and they've only exacerbated my concerns since being drafted.

To be fair. Jost is on his way to being a reclamation project in his own right.

That said. I’d do Josty for Strome before Pulju no question. Not sure what Strome has to offer down the line. But he seems to be a 40ish point guy at 20 and I’m not sure he’s as bad as you think he is.

If those guys are reclamation projects then so is Jost.

You guys label young players (in the NHL!) busts way too early.

If these guys hadn’t cracked NHL lineups yet and were in their 4th year of junior getting close to two pts a game, everyone would still be going gaga over them. In actuality, they’re beyond that in total development.

That was certainly a hotter take than some of my opinions, but I had major reservations about Pulju's hockey-IQ as a prospect and he seems to have only justified those concerns thus far in his career. Similar story with Strome, I never liked his perimeter game, he lacked the skating & toughness for me to feel confident in his production translating at the NHL level; and his career thus far has only accentuate those concerns.

Now Jost has done nothing to address my concerns about his skating...and if he doesn't breakout next season I to would call him a reclamation project...but those concerns never prevented me from rating Jost highly, they just prevented me from rating him highly at Center. His skating is sufficient on the wing; where I rated him highly.

And that's the big difference in my eyes; Pulju needs the wizard to give him a brain, Strome needs the wizard to hook him up with some heart, but Jost just needs the great & powerful Oz to give him a Center to play on the wing of.

 

[Asinine]

That first is one MacKinnon or Rantanen injury away from being a guaranteed lottery pick, if it isn't already.

I'm also in the party of moving Jost for another struggling young player with potential if he gets moved relatively soon.
I'd rather just put him in the minors to developed- he hasn't shown much progress since coming into the league. He just goes out on the ice, skates around a bit and comes off. Doesn't really do anything. Just an ineffective player right now.

 

[Muffin]

If those guys are reclamation projects then so is Jost.

Strome isn't a reclamation project anymore, guy is 25, he is what he is. No way in hell I trade Jost for Strome, Jost's disappointing rookie season is on par with Strome's regular pace.

 

[A91]

That was certainly a hotter take than some of my opinions, but I had major reservations about Pulju's hockey-IQ as a prospect and he seems to have only justified those concerns thus far in his career. Similar story with Strome, I never liked his perimeter game, he lacked the skating & toughness for me to feel confident in his production translating at the NHL level; and his career thus far has only accentuate those concerns.

Now Jost has done nothing to address my concerns about his skating...and if he doesn't breakout next season I to would call him a reclamation project...but those concerns never prevented me from rating Jost highly, they just prevented me from rating him highly at Center. His skating is sufficient on the wing; where I rated him highly.

And that's the big difference in my eyes; Pulju needs the wizard to give him a brain, Strome needs the wizard to hook him up with some heart, but Jost just needs the great & powerful Oz to give him a Center to play on the wing of.

Jost had 13 even-strength points in 65 games playing 14:38 toi on a top10 offensive team last season. To put that into perspective Yakupov (who doesnt have a brain) put up 12 even-strength points in 10:50 mins a night on the same team.
Now, Jost was a rookie to be fair but lets not pretend he is a even a little bit ahead of Puljujarvi (currently). Both are still 20 year olds playing in their D+3 seasons, biases aside.

(Edit: To be clear, I like Jost he's an Edmonton kid so I automatically am rooting for him and think he will be a good 2nd line forward. IMO its just not fair to claim one player as "still developing" and the other as a "project" when one has done arguably less with far more opportunity)

 

[A91]

Strome isn't a reclamation project anymore, guy is 25, he is what he is. No way in hell I trade Jost for Strome, Jost's disappointing rookie season is on par with Strome's regular pace.

Dylan Strome not Ryan

 

[cgf]

Jost had 13 even-strength points in 65 games playing 14:38 toi on a top10 offensive team last season. To put that into perspective Yakupov (who doesnt have a brain) put up 12 even-strength points in 10:50 mins a night on the same team.
Now, Jost was a rookie to be fair but lets not pretend he is a even a little bit ahead of Puljujarvi (currently). Both are still 20 year olds playing in their D+3 seasons, biases aside.

I'm not talking about production, I'm talking about skillsets & development arcs. I won't deny that Jost has been no more productive than the other two, but I liked his skillset a lot more as a prospect than either of the other two because I thought it translated to the NHL game most clearly, and the way they've all been developing has done nothing to change that. They all have the same concerns I had then and Jost's issue is still the easiest to address once we add a proper top 6 C to push him to the wing.

I'm sure not everyone will agree, but that's the fun of talking about kids who had significant potential.