Player Discussion Josh Norris C 6’1”

[JD1]

Staying in college may in fact be the absolute best thing for him as a player, but that's not what I am debating here. I am wondering what's going on. How his rehab is going, etc. Max Lajoie may have been best served by playing a full season in the AHL, same with Jaros, and there are a few other examples, but the org needed warm bodies to fill roster spots, so they were rushed.

Jaros was rushed? Thats a bullshit statement. There are over 80 guys from his draft year in the NHL

You mentioned patterns earlier. Here's a pattern: regardless of what this team does, your take is it is the wrong thing

 

[JD1]

Yes...NCAA for sure offers better medical staff than the NHL and offers more opportunities to improve pro-level skills than say playing 70+ games against men in the AHL, come on are you even trying at this point? They play like 35 games in college. I know he is going to be signed this year, I am just criticizing the continuing ineptitude of this management group and the apologists that surround it and I have seemed to touch a nerve, oops, my apologies.

There was a lengthy discussion about this on 1200 at some point last winter. Iirc, the cinsensus opinion was that for noted nhl calibre kids, playing less games and spending more time in the gym getting stronger is a better route

 

[JD1]

It's about 75,000$ per month of difference. That's a lot of incentive.

You're going to have to explain that one

 

[JD1]

IIRC you start earning as soon as the contract is signed. They get paid 12 months through the year.

No they dont. But i understand your other comment now.

NHL players start getting paid when the season starts and receive their salary in full by seasons end. I thought that was pretty commonly understood.

 

[JD1]

No they don't, they get paid pro-rated based on days on the roster over the regular season. He'd get his signing bonus of ~75k immediately, as with every ELC by every player (amount varies).

If the season is 200 days long, he'd earn his 750k over that span.

If he's in the AHL for 50 games and on the NHL roster for 150, he'd earn 25% worth of ~70k, and 75% worth of 750k.

You don't get paid for the playoffs or offseason, outside of performance bonuses you can earn in the playoffs.

Otherwise, everyone who doesn't sign on July 1st would be leaving tons and tons of money on the table

I find it a fascinating feature of the human race that some have such strong opinions on things they don't understand. Hopefully you've offered a learning experience here lol

 

[Liver King]

Josh Norris is gooooooooooood

Just sayin

 

[Sweatred]

Josh Norris is gooooooooooood

Just sayin

I hope he has a great camp and makes the team.

 

[TkachukNorris79]

I hope he has a great camp and makes the team.

I hope he has a great camp and goes to Belleville for a year... Next year means nothing to us. Let him and Formenton do what Brown and Batherson this year... We know Mann will give them the minutes, let them get adjusted to the pro game. Formenton-Norris-Abramov would be a fun line to watch. All could make the team the year after.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Nothing to negotiate just another check to sign. Melnyk can't cash too many checks

There is a lot to negotiate with ELCs. Two different types of bonuses with criteria that can be different in every contract.

This seems like a very basic situation. Our front office could fit in a paddle boat. We have to search for a coach and a POHO. Dorion has stated he thinks he will get Norris signed this summer, so I'm sure there is a level of communication.

He was injured. So he was not a priority to sign. Keep in mind, if he signed he was would not have burned a year since he would still have been eligible for an ELC slide. He would have signed a 19-20 NHL contract with an 18-19 AHL ATO so that he could join Belleville.

If the criticism is that our front office is short staffed, that's a fair criticism.

If the criticism is lolDorion he can't even have Norris signed by now. I don't think it makes sense to prioritize Norris when there are more time sensitive priorities (coach, POHO, draft, free agents) and resources are scarce.

 

[BatherSeason]

Jaros was rushed? Thats a bull**** statement. There are over 80 guys from his draft year in the NHL

You mentioned patterns earlier. Here's a pattern: regardless of what this team does, your take is it is the wrong thing

No need to get your panties in a knot here. Lol

Saying that Jaros wasn't rushed is just as much of a bulls**t statement. How many NHL teams would Jaros have a position in the top 6?? One, maybe two teams?? So based on the bull meter that you are using, there is much more bull in stating that he deserved to play in the NHL than saying he didn't.

Would he been better served playing a top 4 role in the AHL? Absolutely.

 

[BatherSeason]

This was my original question, followed by a bunch of people telling me to relax:
So, Dorion gonna sign this guy or we gonna wait as long as possible?

Based on these replies, I think I may not be the one that needs to "relax", some of these even needed to be edited by mods:

He would benefit from another yr of college (Mod).

Pick your battles.

Thats a bull**** statement.

Lmao... there are very good reasons not to sign him RIGHT NOW

Management is a ****show, the organization is a **** show, literally no one ever praises them and rightfully so... but the need of these two to make up controversy is just mind-numbing. How pessimistic do you have to be to try to make the OTTAWA SENATORS out to be worse than they already are? It's like spending 5 hours arguing that Hitler was an irresponsible pet owner.

Seems like a lot of anger coming fom the other side too in my opinion.

 

[BatherSeason]

So, back to my original question, is the team gonna sign this guy or are we gonna wait as along as possible??

 

[BondraTime]

So, back to my original question, is the team gonna sign this guy or are we gonna wait as along as possible??

Either sign in the summer or in March, either way is fine and doesn't make much/any difference.

 

[aligator]

Either sign in the summer or in March, either way is fine and doesn't make much/any difference.

I expect him to be signed in the summer when there are 50 man roster spots available.

 

[JD1]

No need to get your panties in a knot here. Lol

Saying that Jaros wasn't rushed is just as much of a bulls**t statement. How many NHL teams would Jaros have a position in the top 6?? One, maybe two teams?? So based on the bull meter that you are using, there is much more bull in stating that he deserved to play in the NHL than saying he didn't.

Would he been better served playing a top 4 role in the AHL? Absolutely.

Like most of your posts...you're seeking controversy

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I expect him to be signed in the summer when there are 50 man roster spots available.

I don't disagree that he'll be signed in the off season, but current 50 contract spots aren't relevant since he would be signing a 19-20 ELC not an 18-19 ELC.

He was eligible for an ELC slide, even if he signed this season after the college season ended, he would have probably still signed a 19-20 contract. The fact that he was injured and couldn't join the AHL with an ATO likely meant that there was no reason to expedite a signing.

 

[Tuna99]

There is a lot to negotiate with ELCs. Two different types of bonuses with criteria that can be different in every contract.

This seems like a very basic situation. Our front office could fit in a paddle boat. We have to search for a coach and a POHO. Dorion has stated he thinks he will get Norris signed this summer, so I'm sure there is a level of communication.

He was injured. So he was not a priority to sign. Keep in mind, if he signed he was would not have burned a year since he would still have been eligible for an ELC slide. He would have signed a 19-20 NHL contract with an 18-19 AHL ATO so that he could join Belleville.

If the criticism is that our front office is short staffed, that's a fair criticism.

If the criticism is lolDorion he can't even have Norris signed by now. I don't think it makes sense to prioritize Norris when there are more time sensitive priorities (coach, POHO, draft, free agents) and resources are scarce.

If Dorion doesn’t have time to sign Norris because he has to hire a coach this team is in deeper trouble then anyone realizes. This isn’t like signing Tavares, it’s an ELC - it’s a standard contract.

And Norris should be a #1 Prioroty - this kid is the cornerstone of the EK deal and our top C prospect. 50 contracts, injuries, AHL - all of that can take a hike, get this kid signed and get him in Ottawa.

The fact that he isn’t signed doesn’t sit well with me.

 

[JD1]

You guys are so caught up in Dorion. Is signing Norris even a Dorion thing? Aren't contracts what they brought MacTavish in for? That's his expertise right? Wouldn't signing a prospect to an ELC more likely fall on the shoulders of the AGM brought in because of his contract expertise?

 

[Tuna99]

You guys are so caught up in Dorion. Is signing Norris even a Dorion thing? Aren't contracts what they brought MacTavish in for? That's his expertise right? Wouldn't signing a prospect to an ELC more likely fall on the shoulders of the AGM brought in because of his contract expertise?

The organization as a whole is a mess, and it was reported on HNIC in March that Ottawa was trying to sign him and get him out of college early.

Maybe Norris just wants a bigger signing bonus, maybe he wants to go back to college, but the fact that they can’t convince him to sing in Ottawa when he’s got a wide open shot at making the team is just a sign the organization can’t accomplish anything it wants

And it tells the story of why we are rebuilding - we are rebuilding not because the owner wants to, it’s because we have no choice. It’s the only thing we CAN do. We can’t sign anyone, we can’t keep anyone, we can’t make the playoffs, we can’t meet expectations, we can’t hire long tenured coaches, we can’t sell tickets, we can’t not have it be a gong show, we can’t have buy in from the fans or players - rebuilding (getting rid of everyone and controlling players who have zero leverage) is the only thing Ottawa can control, that’s why we are rebuilding, it’s like trying to move or buy a new house but you can’t afford anything and can’t get a mortgage so you decide after a few years just to redecorate the house you’re already in. It’s a choice to do it, but your only doing it because all other options aren’t available to you or forced onto you

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

Maybe Norris just wants a bigger signing bonus, maybe he wants to go back to college, but the fact that they can’t convince him to sing in Ottawa when he’s got a wide open shot at making the team is just a sign the organization can’t accomplish anything it wants to

No, we have literally discussed why this is not the case on the last few pages. You’re making up a narrative

 

[Tuna99]

No, we have literally discussed why this is not the case on the last few pages. You’re making up a narrative

You are also making up a narrative. Every single person here is. So welcome to words on the Internet.

the team has a full record of doo-dooing it’s pants on every single file it has to run a hockey team and ones it didn’t even have but have to create because if incompetence.

If this team was competent i’d Be okay with Norris not signing and I’d have faith, but this team hasn’t earned any benefit of the doubt from me.

 

[BatherSeason]

Like most of your posts...you're seeking controversy

You didn't answer my question about Jaros.

 

[aragorn]

If Dorion doesn’t have time to sign Norris because he has to hire a coach this team is in deeper trouble then anyone realizes. This isn’t like signing Tavares, it’s an ELC - it’s a standard contract.

And Norris should be a #1 Prioroty - this kid is the cornerstone of the EK deal and our top C prospect. 50 contracts, injuries, AHL - all of that can take a hike, get this kid signed and get him in Ottawa.

The fact that he isn’t signed doesn’t sit well with me.

First, I'm not sure that Norris is Ott's top C, IMO I think it will be Brown but that remains to be seen which one ends up on there top line in future, maybe they take turns. Second, given the seriousness of Norris' injury they could be waiting on what doctors have to say regarding his recovery & whether he would be ready by the time training camp comes around. I think we will have a better indication if he comes to development camp & actually participates, he may not & that would be worrisome.

Somehow, from his perspective I doubt he returns to college since I don't think he wants to be in this position again should another injury occur that could affect his career. He could be at the least in the org & taken care of by team physicians & under contract & getting paid, he can always go back to school. And if he recovers nicely from this injury & is playing in Belleville & has a good season that would be the best place to be to move onto the NHL from there. All that to say that I think he will sign eventually but the Sens could be the ones waiting to make sure they don't waste a contract on a guy who is injured for a good portion of the yr & not playing or not 100% healthy or not the player he once was because of the injury. Maybe they are just waiting to see what the doctors have to say about this guy's injury & what it means for his future this yr & in hockey. Do we know what his injury was yet? Man the Sens are an unlucky franchise sometimes, wasn't that Davidson kid injured after being traded to Ott too?

 

[BatherSeason]

First, I'm not sure that Norris is Ott's top C, IMO I think it will be Brown but that remains to be seen which one ends up on there top line in future, maybe they take turns. Second, given the seriousness of Norris' injury they could be waiting on what doctors have to say regarding his recovery & whether he would be ready by the time training camp comes around. I think we will have a better indication if he comes to development camp & actually participates, he may not & that would be worrisome.

Somehow, from his perspective I doubt he returns to college since I don't think he wants to be in this position again should another injury occur that could affect his career. He could be at the least in the org & taken care of by team physicians & under contract & getting paid, he can always go back to school. And if he recovers nicely from this injury & is playing in Belleville & has a good season that would be the best place to be to move onto the NHL from there. All that to say that I think he will sign eventually but the Sens could be the ones waiting to make sure they don't waste a contract on a guy who is injured for a good portion of the yr & not playing or not 100% healthy or not the player he once was because of the injury. Maybe they are just waiting to see what the doctors have to say about this guy's injury & what it means for his future this yr & in hockey. Do we know what his injury was yet? Man the Sens are an unlucky franchise sometimes, wasn't that Davidson kid injured after being traded to Ott too?

Josh Norris was sold to this fanbase as the key piece coming back in the Erik Karlsson trade. The fact that the local media and the team have suddenly gone silent in regards to this shiny piece, leads me to believe that something has gone sideways. Yes, there is still plenty of time to get something done, but it seems like guys that want to sign are signing and guys that want to go back to school are stating just that, or the team is announcing that.

When things go bad with this org, they tend to go silent on specific topics (they means the org, the media, etc.).

Please don't yell at me and get all upset Melnyk fans, I too hope he gets signed and I hope I am wrong.

 

[BatherSeason]

Somehow, from his perspective I doubt he returns to college since I don't think he wants to be in this position again should another injury occur that could affect his career.

All that to say that I think he will sign eventually but the Sens could be the ones waiting to make sure they don't waste a contract on a guy who is injured for a good portion of the yr & not playing or not 100% healthy or not the player he once was because of the injury.

Most of your points would seem to be talking about a guy who may be desperate to sign his first pro contract and an organization that is delaying the process.