Josh Leivo

[zeke]

Babcock will play a very shortened bench than be manipulated by anyone. His contract alone gives him that leeway. "You don't like the way I coach? Fire me" And we all know that won't be happening any time soon.

Do you really think Josh Leivo is the hill that Dubas wants to die on?

babcock's toys are being taken from him one by one.

And Dubas will certainly "encourage" babs to manage his assets better. If babs wants to play games and play favorites and try to force dubas to dump young assets without giving them a chance, he'll only be putting his own job in jeopardy.

 

[egd27]

it's not unfair that he isn't playing on this team, what I find unfair is that IF he isn't able to crack our line-up, which is reasonably true, then you move the guy. Because looking at his game, he can play NHL hockey in this league, it just may not be on a team that is stacked up front like we are.

Every team in the league has a 13th or 14th forward.......presently, ours is Josh Leivo. It's not unfair, it's a role that someone has to fill.

So who should be our "extra" roster forwards? A prospect that needs development? Sign some washed up vet and hope he never gets into the line up?

It would be foolish to give him away for scraps, and then get hit by 2 or 3 injuries a week later.

 

[diceman934]

Dubas has the power to trade and send down Babcock's toys. Y'all think Babcock one day just had a come to god moment and realized Martin isnt good enough? There's definitely some behind the scenes arm twisting not just with Babs but every team.

If you or anyone else thinks that Dubas was going to make Babcock play a player he does not want to pay them you have not been paying attention.

Babcock has consistently played the players he liked and not the players his GM liked or signed . Look at Detroit for all the proof anyone should need. Babcock refused to played a few key free agents his GM signed in off seasons to some pretty good contracts. Steven Weiss the wings are still paying him 1.66m for the next 3 years. Babcock did not like him and he sat as a healthy scratch in the press box as he was a 4.9m cap hit who just signed with the Wings. He had a NMC contract.

 

[ACC1224]

It always irks me hyman plays over him. I like hyman but Leivo is the better offensive player imo.

Leivo has better finish but Hyman is better at everything else.

 

[Menzinger]

Im not sure Leivo will ever play full time for the Leafs, but st eh same time won’t be surprised to see a Haula - a guy who will produce on another team when given the opportunity. If that does happen will be curious to see what the reactions are around here

If you or anyone else thinks that Dubas was going to make Babcock play a player he does not want to pay them you have not been paying attention.

Babcock has consistently played the players he liked and not the players his GM liked or signed . Look at Detroit for all the proof anyone should need. Babcock refused to played a few key free agents his GM signed in off seasons to some pretty good contracts. Steven Weiss the wings are still paying him 1.66m for the next 3 years. Babcock did not like him and he sat as a healthy scratch in the press box as he was a 4.9m cap hit who just signed with the Wings. He had a NMC contract.

Babcock will certainly do what he wants, but at the same time he clearly can’t use what he doesn’t have. So Dubas can at least encourage Babs to try out certain players by limiting his options.

 

[al secord]

babcock's toys are being taken from him one by one.

And Dubas will certainly "encourage" babs to manage his assets better. If babs wants to play games and play favorites and try to force dubas to dump young assets without giving them a chance, he'll only be putting his own job in jeopardy.

Babcock plays the "toys" he's provided. Babcock's job is the safest in the league, no matter what 3rd or 4th line scrub he decides to play or not play. An AHL'er , or at best a 4th line Josh Leivo is not a fight Dubas could possibly find worth it.

 

[ACC1224]

babcock's toys are being taken from him one by one.

And Dubas will certainly "encourage" babs to manage his assets better. If babs wants to play games and play favorites and try to force dubas to dump young assets without giving them a chance, he'll only be putting his own job in jeopardy.

Every Coach in the league plays their favourites.
Why would they be expected to sit a player that they like better than another?

 

[zeke]

Babcock plays the "toys" he's provided. Babcock's job is the safest in the league, no matter what 3rd or 4th line scrub he decides to play or not play. An AHL'er , or at best a 4th line Josh Leivo is not a fight Dubas could possibly find worth it.

Dubas is already taking away his toys. And he will absolutely do his best to encourage Babcock to play players he feels its in the team's best interest to play.

Babcock can stubbornly and unreasonably simply refuse to play talented youngsters in favor of vet grinders if he wants, but he sure better hope he wins a playoff series for the first time in eons or else that unreasonable stubborness will only cost him.

 

[zeke]

Every Coach in the league plays their favourites.
Why would they be expected to sit a player that they like better than another?

because Dubas flat out knows that babcock was wrong in his addiction to guys like Martin and Komorov and Polak.

 

[Leafslet]

Every team in the league has a 13th or 14th forward.......presently, ours is Josh Leivo. It's not unfair, it's a role that someone has to fill.

So who should be our "extra" roster forwards? A prospect that needs development? Sign some washed up vet and hope he never gets into the line up?

It would be foolish to give him away for scraps, and then get hit by 2 or 3 injuries a week later.

that's a reasonable argument, and I'm not adverse to it playing out as it has, and as you describe. I just wonder if Leivo is a regular on a bunch of other teams.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Dubas is already taking away his toys. And he will absolutely do his best to encourage Babcock to play players he feels its in the team's best interest to play.

Babcock can stubbornly and unreasonably simply refuse to play talented youngsters in favor of vet grinders if he wants, but he sure better hope he wins a playoff series for the first time in eons or else that unreasonable stubborness will only cost him.

This. As long as you're meeting expectations, everything is fine. But now the expectations for this team are (justifiably) higher than they've been in ages and if we go out in the 1st round again and Babcock is making strange decisions with respect to who gets to play again, you best believe that if Dubas isn't happy with the way Babcock is managing his assets there will be pressure brought to bear.

 

[al secord]

because Dubas flat out knows that babcock was wrong in his addiction to guys like Martin and Komorov and Polak.

Martin was a Babcock toy? Why was he in the pressbox most of the year?

 

[al secord]

...can't believe I've talked about Leivo this much. I doubt Babcock gives him as much thought.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

babcock's toys are being taken from him one by one.

And Dubas will certainly "encourage" babs to manage his assets better. If babs wants to play games and play favorites and try to force dubas to dump young assets without giving them a chance, he'll only be putting his own job in jeopardy.

The team is literally coming off a franchise record season, Babcock's job is not in jeopardy in any sense, the mere suggestion that it is, or could be is ridiculous

 

[ShaneFalco]

Martin was a Babcock toy? Why was he in the pressbox most of the year?

It took him too long for him to put him there.
It took him far too long to sit Komarov
He played the hell out of Hainsey

He's played vets like Hunwick in the past too far too much. It's a pattern with him

 

[Liminality]

Is Hyman considered a toy still? Thought he proved he's more than that this past season.

 

[zeke]

Martin was a Babcock toy? Why was he in the pressbox most of the year?

why was he ever on the team at all, is the question.

let alone being a permanent unchangeable feature in the lineup for 1.6yrs before babcock was finally forced to demote his other toy Leo to the 4th line and push Martin out of the lineup. and now they're both gone, and not missed by aanyone other than Babcock.

unsurprisingly, the team was immediately far better after that switch.

the fact that Matt Martin played 132gms for us the past 2yrs while leivo only played 29 is stupid and embarassing.

 

[GoldenGOOSE]

How can anyone fault Leivo for not being as good on his second tryout. Can you imagine being a guy who almost got a PPG, then suddenly being nailed to the bench for like half a season?

Imagine the pressure on the guy when he finally gets out there.

IF he plays well, he is everything this team lacks, tough, great on the boards, good one timer.

Exactly what the team needs.

Justin Holl and Leivo must be soulmates and best friends.

I think Mike Babcock is the most overhyped, overrated person I have ever come across.

And his special accent and butchery of the english language are annoying as all out.

He talks about good pros, good people, meanwhile there are young children sitting in the stands behind him and the guy curses worse than a sailor on shore leave all game long.

This guy needs to go.

 

[Mess]

It always irks me hyman plays over him. I like hyman but Leivo is the better offensive player imo.

"Defense wins championships" and so the coach is focused not only on "offense" but defense as well.

Leafs have lots of offensive players, what they lack is 2-way players and ones able to play defense also.

Hyman is Leafs #1PK player in usage and responsibility, and Leivo is a PP player where Leafs again don't really need him.

That is why Leivo is an extra instead of Hyman.

Hyman and Marleau are set to play in the top 6 on LW..

Leivo will battle Johnsson for the 3rd/4th line LW spots with some others.

 

[Mr Hockey]

I wonder how many 30'ish year old hockey people "told" Scotty Bowman who to play and how to coach

 

[Trapper]

Whatever happens Leivo shouldn’t be sitting for another 40 games. That’s what guys like Cracknell are for. Not Leivo. Hopefully Dubas deals with this quickly to avoid a repeat of the past. No doubt his development has been stalled to some degree. He’s established limited value because of limited viewing. No AHL time and barely NHL time.

 

[ACC1224]

why was he ever on the team at all, is the question.

let alone being a permanent unchangeable feature in the lineup for 1.6yrs before babcock was finally forced to demote his other toy Leo to the 4th line and push Martin out of the lineup. and now they're both gone, and not missed by aanyone other than Babcock.

unsurprisingly, the team was immediately far better after that switch.

the fact that Matt Martin played 132gms for us the past 2yrs while leivo only played 29 is stupid and embarassing.

Not sure why that would embarass you.
Martin's had a role at a time and filled it.
Once that role was no longer needed, Martin sat.

Every Coach plays players they trust and like, this won't change nor would Josh Leivo's impact on the lineup had changed had he been played.

 

[zeke]

Not sure why that would embarass you.
Martin's had a role at a time and filled it.
Once that role was no longer needed, Martin sat.

nonsense.

he had no role, and didn't fill any role. he took up space from better players, and put more pressure on the rest of the lineup because he couldn't be trusted in any situation. and babcock didn't actually trust him - martin received the softest quality of competition of any player in all of hockey with at least 1000 minutes played the last two years. he was the most sheltered player in the whole league.

the only reason he was on the team was babcock's stubborness.

that ain't happening anymore.


fricken guy started a playoff game with an injured Leo Komarov on the TOP LINE. insane.

 

[ACC1224]

nonsense.

he had no role, and didn't fill any role. he took up space from better players, and put more pressure on the rest of the lineup because he couldn't be trusted in any situation. and babcock didn't actually trust him - martin received the softest quality of competition of any player in all of hockey with at least 1000 minutes played the last two years. he was the most sheltered player in the whole league.

the only reason he was on the team was babcock's stubborness.

that ain't happening anymore.


fricken guy started a playoff game with an injured Leo Komarov on the TOP LINE. insane.

Babcock didn't sign him.

 

[Mr Hockey]

nonsense.

he had no role, and didn't fill any role. he took up space from better players, and put more pressure on the rest of the lineup because he couldn't be trusted in any situation.

the only reason he was on the team was babcock's stubborness.

no more.

right lol ...