Player Discussion: Josh Ho-Sang Pt II

[buud]

JHS is not supposed to be beating out the likes of MM, CC, Filppula, etc... since his D game is questionable, he is competing against Bailey and Eberle. there is no way that he is a better all-around player than those two, right now.

if Trotz was 100% re-building, then yeah, bring JHS, but Trotz is trying to win, so JHS needs to be better. and less whiny....

 

[Islanders4Cups]

Crosby is the greatest grinder I've ever seen in my life. One with skill. He's absolutely a grinder and is amazing at it.

Agree. Crosby is physical enough to be a called a grinder and is great at it.

 

[Quickdraw2828]

Leave him alone. Not all forwards that play every day are outscored by the teams goalie. He contributes in other ways. For example he is 2nd on the team in penalty minutes behind Lucic. Geez

LGI


We sure know how to draft em.

and nobody could commit a mental penalty with two minutes left in a tied game like Strome.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Crosby is the greatest grinder I've ever seen in my life. One with skill. He's absolutely a grinder and is amazing at it.

I think we're just defining differently. Most people, myself included, use 'grinder'to mean a player with less skill, who succeeds more by effort than talent.

To me, Crosby has too much talent to be called a 'grinder', and his solid effort without the puck makes him 'defensively responsible'.

 

[Bood12]

Dude his point still stands. You kind of completely ignored it. Has he been the only one late? I'm sure he hasn't. But the kid has had problems with every team he's played on. It's turning into pages and pages of issues. The burden of proof is actually on you. We all know nothing, yet you are claiming a weird conspiracy that every authoritative person on every team he's played for has had a problem with him for... some reason? You even brought race into this. How about you tell us why he should get another pass?

And yes he looked good in the NHL... offensively. I watched every one of his games. I remember a particular game against the Rangers where he was lights out. He crossed the offensive blue line like he was playing toddlers., and he was creating offense and making plays all over the place. But I also watched him play the majority of the other games when he was a net negative. He was a disaster without the puck and often making terrible decisions with the puck while playing in a system that was all about high risk. We gave up 50 shots a game without him and often when he played he was a complete liability. That's not a good look. And then add in that he has a ton of black marks on his personal record.

There's no way he should have replaced anyone in our top 6 going into the season. And after watching the Isles' 11 games, he definitely doesn't belong in our bottom 6. I could argue Beau needs some time off now, but JHS couldn't shut the **** up and play his ass off and just wait 10 games to force the issue in his favor.

I was/am rooting for this kid, and think a ton of media jumped all over him for no reason (and still do), but eventually enough is enough.

again, what other problems has he had that you are aware of? I know he was late and he was punished heavily for it, other than that I see an outspoken guy who should have been on the Islanders for most of last year and if he is upset at that he has a right to be

but yes, this current crop it is hard to put him on the roster with the team playing good, though I would still rather see him than Beauvillier or Komorov, but last year he should have been given a long look to see what the Isles have him and now it is possibly to late, still would probably take a gamble in replacing Ho-Sang with Eberle if it means giving Eberle a huge deal

 

[13th Floor]

again, what other problems has he had that you are aware of? I know he was late and he was punished heavily for it, other than that I see an outspoken guy who should have been on the Islanders for most of last year and if he is upset at that he has a right to be

but yes, this current crop it is hard to put him on the roster with the team playing good, though I would still rather see him than Beauvillier or Komorov, but last year he should have been given a long look to see what the Isles have him and now it is possibly to late, still would probably take a gamble in replacing Ho-Sang with Eberle if it means giving Eberle a huge deal

The other problems being... everything that was said about him from juniors, including all his junior coaches, Team Canada, and his draft stock dropping dramatically once every front office in the NHL researched him. And then those problems have continued into the NHL/AHL.

 

[Bood12]

The other problems being... everything that was said about him from juniors, including all his junior coaches, Team Canada, and his draft stock dropping dramatically once every front office in the NHL researched him. And then those problems have continued into the NHL/AHL.

again, can you explain what they are or you just go by what someone else says and form your opinion that way, he was late, the only bad thing I really know about him as of yet

 

[13th Floor]

again, can you explain what they are or you just go by what someone else says and form your opinion that way, he was late, the only bad thing I really know about him as of yet

Um... are't we all going by what everyone else says? It's not like I'm watching the practices and neither are you. I mean, what do you want me to provide for you? Did you try Googling anything?

He was snubbed from a lot of Hockey Canada events.
He was traded from the Spitfires with rumors surrounding his issues and how all of Hockey Canada took notice.
He was passed over by almost every team in the first round despite his skill level being way higher than others, clearly because of his questionable attitude and selfish play. Many scouts said they wouldn't touch him, and they didn't. This prompted the famous Snow line of "they shit on me too". Snow backed him and said he would fit right in and he's not concerned about his attitude.
The very first thing he does on the Isles gets him sent back to Juniors on the first day of camp.
Our AHL coach calls him a baby and questions his attitude.
Etc... etc.. (I'm not digging up articles of his questionable attitude dating back the past 7 or so years, partly because the burden of proof is on you to prove what everyone is saying is wrong, and partly because you would just dismiss it since they are just 'reports of what someone else says')

I'm not sure what you are probing at here. Are you seriously telling me you haven't heard about any of his attitude issues? Did you just ignore the entire draft of all the information circling around him and hwy he dropped so much? Or, are you saying that except for tangible things (like being late), all of this is just a big conspiracy against him? That every team passed on him because of something that was far more important to them then adding a skilled player to their team, despite countless teams employing players with a ton of issues but it being worth it.

So far, all you've done is attack everyone who is fed up with his shit and then dropped the race word in here with [shockingly] zero proof of any of that. If YOU want to drop something as serious as a race conspiracy, then YOU provide evidence of why that's the case. Or, you can blissfully ignore the countless articles that call into question his trades, his snubs, his pass overs, and his attitude of being far too selfish both on and off the ice. I'm not providing a f***ing cited thesis for you.

 

[Bood12]

Um... are't we all going by what everyone else says? It's not like I'm watching the practices and neither are you. I mean, what do you want me to provide for you? Did you try Googling anything?

He was snubbed from a lot of Hockey Canada events.
He was traded from the Spitfires with rumors surround his issues and how all of Hockey Canada took notice.
He was passed over by almost every team in the first round despite his skill level being way higher than others, clearly because of his questionable attitude. This prompted the famous Snow line of "they **** on me too". Snow backed him and said he would fit right in and he's not concerned about his attitude.
The very first thing he does on the Isles gets him sent back to Juniors on the first day of camp.
Our AHL coach calls him a baby and questions his attitude.
Etc... etc.. (I'm not digging up articles of his questionable attitude dating back the past 7 or so years, partly because the burden of proof is on you to prove what everyone is saying is wrong, and partly because you would just dismiss it since they are just 'reports of what someone else says')

I'm not sure what you are probing at here. Are you seriously telling me you haven't heard about any of his attitude issues? Did you just ignore the entire draft of all the information circling around him and hwy he dropped so much? Or, are you saying that except for tangible things (like being late), all of this is just a big conspiracy against him? That every team passed on him because of something that was far more important to them then adding a skilled player to their team, despite countless teams employing players with a ton of issues but it being worth it.

So far, all you've done is attack everyone who is fed up with his **** and then dropped the race word in here with [shockingly] zero proof of any of that. If YOU want to drop something as serious as a race conspiracy, then YOU provide evidence of why that's the case. Or, you can blissfully ignore the countless articles that call into question his trades, his snubs, his pass overs, and his attitude of being far too selfish both on and off the ice. I'm not providing a ****ing cited thesis for you.

I have heard about these "issues" I also know not to judge anyone by what someone else says unless I know of something they did wrong, again he was late, he was punished, all these other people and teams who had an issue with him I would like to know what he did wrong, I also know he should have been on the team last year and in retrospect can any Islander fan disagree with that? should he keep quiet and get buried when he feels he was justified in being wronged? I am guessing there are a few people who are not wired like that and good for them if they are.

oh yea Thompson is a big f***ing douche bag for calling him a "baby", nice coach we have there

 

[Doshell Propivo]

, I also know he should have been on the team last year and in retrospect can any Islander fan disagree with that?

Ho-Sang is exactly where he belongs. It's pretty obvious.

 

[13th Floor]

I have heard about these "issues" I also know not to judge anyone by what someone else says unless I know of something they did wrong, again he was late, he was punished, all these other people and teams who had an issue with him I would like to know what he did wrong, I also know he should have been on the team last year and in retrospect can any Islander fan disagree with that? should he keep quiet and get buried when he feels he was justified in being wronged? I am guessing there are a few people who are not wired like that and good for them if they are.

oh yea Thompson is a big ****ing *****e bag for calling him a "baby", nice coach we have there

Agreed that Thompson sucks. But, it's just another notch on a long list. You can feel free to ignore that if you want. And yes, he should have kept quiet and done his job, like every other player that we have sent down to the minor for stints, which is pretty much half of our top 6.

Good for you for going against the grain. Most of us are rooting for him. But you are also blissfully ignoring and dismissing a long history of people discussing his attitude on and off the ice. Those are the issues. He's outspoken to a fault. He's selfish on the ice. Coaches have not been able to get him to buy into a team structure. He was late to practice on day 1. He was told not to talk to the media and did. AND add that to the fact I watched him make risky play after risky play on the Isles last year.

How about we flip this to you:
Why was he snubbed for Team Canada?
Why did he get traded from the Spitfires?
Why did he drop so far in the draft?

Has he gotten an unfair shake because he has a personality? Maybe. But that only counts for a couple of strikes against you. There's far too many issues across far too many teams, teammates, scouts, coaches, etc. If you meet an asshole, hey.. you met an asshole. If you keep meeting assholes, then you are the asshole.

 

[Sparksrus3]

Crosby is the greatest grinder I've ever seen in my life. One with skill. He's absolutely a grinder and is amazing at it.

I agree, a level above Peter Forsberg . 3 levels above our own John Tonelli and he was one of our best ever

 

[Bood12]

Agreed that Thompson sucks. But, it's just another notch on a long list. You can feel free to ignore that if you want. And yes, he should have kept quiet and done his job, like every other player that we have sent down to the minor for stints, which is pretty much half of our top 6.

Good for you for going against the grain. Most of us are rooting for him. But you are also blissfully ignoring and dismissing a long history of people discussing his attitude on and off the ice. Those are the issues. He's outspoken to a fault. He's selfish on the ice. Coaches have not been able to get him to buy into a team structure. He was late to practice on day 1. He was told not to talk to the media and did. AND add that to the fact I watched him make risky play after risky play on the Isles last year.

How about we flip this to you:
Why was he snubbed for Team Canada?
Why did he get traded from the Spitfires?
Why did he drop so far in the draft?

Has he gotten an unfair shake because he has a personality? Maybe. But that only counts for a couple of strikes against you. There's far too many issues across far too many teams, teammates, scouts, coaches, etc. If you meet an *******, hey.. you met an *******. If you keep meeting *******s, then you are the *******.

I don't know you are the one defending all those people so you tell me, you must just go along with whatever the majority says and that is how you form your own opinion, what I see of Ho-Sang is, a guy who should have never been sent down, or at least sent down and rotted when he could have been an asset to the team last year, and a guy who was late or missed his first day of training camp and was punished HEAVILY for it, so yea that is all I know of Ho-Sang, also he is pretty much justified in all of these comments he is making.

 

[13th Floor]

I don't know you are the one defending all those people so you tell me, you must just go along with whatever the majority says and that is how you form your own opinion, what I see of Ho-Sang is, a guy who should have never been sent down, or at least sent down and rotted when he could have been an asset to the team last year, and a guy who was late or missed his first day of training camp and was punished HEAVILY for it, so yea that is all I know of Ho-Sang, also he is pretty much justified in all of these comments he is making.

What are you even talking about? You are making a serious logical leap by accusing me of "believing what the majority says". This isn't reading social media or this messaging board and forming an opinion because anonymous poster IslesFanForLife420 says he doesn't like Ho Sang. This is reading and watching professional reporters who are talking with scouts, coaches, front offices, etc. You know... how kind of everyone gets news on everything? I'm not saying that journalism is this amazing thing devoid of lies or slant, but I'm also saying that information on Ho Sang has come from countless sources with direct quotes from scouts and coaches and all of us have formed an opinion by recognizing the patterns in all of these reports. I'm sure some of these people could have a vendetta against Ho Sang, but saying all of them do is pretty ignorant.

You are just being confrontational to be confrontational, and again, mentioned race and now have ignored every time I bring it up. You haven't done one thing to poke a hole in the countless articles regarding his attitude that specifically say he has trouble listening to instructions on and off the ice.

 

[PK Cronin]

I think we're just defining differently. Most people, myself included, use 'grinder'to mean a player with less skill, who succeeds more by effort than talent.

To me, Crosby has too much talent to be called a 'grinder', and his solid effort without the puck makes him 'defensively responsible'.

Not to get too far off topic, but I define a grinder by playing style and not skill. Crosby goes to the corners, cycles the puck, mucks it up really well, and is just dominant at it. He also has the finesse element when he needs to have it as well, but the majority of his game is spent down low, in the corners, and just grinding down the opposition. Ho-Sang is a finesse guy and doesn't do a lot of that.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Not to get too far off topic, but I define a grinder by playing style and not skill. Crosby goes to the corners, cycles the puck, mucks it up really well, and is just dominant at it. He also has the finesse element when he needs to have it as well, but the majority of his game is spent down low, in the corners, and just grinding down the opposition. Ho-Sang is a finesse guy and doesn't do a lot of that.

Yep - we agree on everything except the terminology. No problem.

 

[steveat]

Not to get too far off topic, but I define a grinder by playing style and not skill. Crosby goes to the corners, cycles the puck, mucks it up really well, and is just dominant at it. He also has the finesse element when he needs to have it as well, but the majority of his game is spent down low, in the corners, and just grinding down the opposition. Ho-Sang is a finesse guy and doesn't do a lot of that.

Sounds like Crosby is the Centre version of Jagr. Jagr is amazing in the corners

 

[PK Cronin]

Sounds like Crosby is the Centre version of Jagr. Jagr is amazing in the corners

They're similar, but if Crosby had a butt the same size as Jagr, I don't think he'd ever need to pass it.

 

[BarzyClub]

So it’s going to be very interesting to see

a. How HoSang performs on the first line and how long he stays there
b. How Thompson manages this situation

To me, I can’t imagine this move was made by Thompson or he would’ve already made it. Which means it was made by Lou/Chris Lams-essentially going over Thompson.If BST keeps losing with the talent they have I don’t see Thompson being here for much longer.

JHS could really take off now and with DalColle back these 2 should be pumped to get a chance to excel now.

Do they stay Islanders or are they traded as part of a major deal is going to one of the more compelling decisions Lou will have to make in the upcoming months.

 

[CupHolders]

So it’s going to be very interesting to see

a. How HoSang performs on the first line and how long he stays there
b. How Thompson manages this situation

To me, I can’t imagine this move was made by Thompson or he would’ve already made it. Which means it was made by Lou/Chris Lams-essentially going over Thompson.If BST keeps losing with the talent they have I don’t see Thompson being here for much longer.

JHS could really take off now and with DalColle back these 2 should be pumped to get a chance to excel now.

Do they stay Islanders or are they traded as part of a major deal is going to one of the more compelling decisions Lou will have to make in the upcoming months.

If both have improved their trade value, and the Isles...

1) are in solid playoff spot
2) with the younger players on the roster contributing (Beauvillier)
3) have resigned some of their key vets (Basically talking about Anders Lee)
4) have a chance to acquire and sign a quality vet (Duchene, Panarin)

I absolutely do look to trade either or both. You figure with the upcoming expansion draft, it's better to have quality over depth. Additionally, devote development time to younger prospects (Bellows) who will not be entry draft eligible.

 

[CREW99AW]

What are you even talking about? You are making a serious logical leap by accusing me of "believing what the majority says". This isn't reading social media or this messaging board and forming an opinion because anonymous poster IslesFanForLife420 says he doesn't like Ho Sang. This is reading and watching professional reporters who are talking with scouts, coaches, front offices, etc. You know... how kind of everyone gets news on everything? I'm not saying that journalism is this amazing thing devoid of lies or slant, but I'm also saying that information on Ho Sang has come from countless sources with direct quotes from scouts and coaches and all of us have formed an opinion by recognizing the patterns in all of these reports. I'm sure some of these people could have a vendetta against Ho Sang, but saying all of them do is pretty ignorant.

You are just being confrontational to be confrontational, and again, mentioned race and now have ignored every time I bring it up. You haven't done one thing to poke a hole in the countless articles regarding his attitude that specifically say he has trouble listening to instructions on and off the ice.

I do not think he is being confrontational.
He is asking you to list the actions JHS has done, since over sleeping in his 1st camp.

You say he has trouble listening to instructions on and off the ice? I think the isles want him to make the simple play to cut down on turn overs.
Is that what you are pointing at when you say he has trouble listening to instructions?

 

[mm11]

I agree, a level above Peter Forsberg . 3 levels above our own John Tonelli and he was one of our best ever

the original JT. Just flat out a great Islander

 

[13th Floor]

I do not think he is being confrontational.
He is asking you to list the actions JHS has done, since over sleeping in his 1st camp.

You say he has trouble listening to instructions on and off the ice? I think the isles want him to make the simple play to cut down on turn overs.
Is that what you are pointing at when you say he has trouble listening to instructions?

Well, yes. I think so far every single team he's played, and the different coaches on those teams, and the teams he hasn't made (Hockey Canada) have all faulted him for his decision making on the ice (the high risk plays, the turnovers, the not making the simple play, etc.) and his outspoken and uncoachable attitude off the ice. I'm not really sure what actions you want me to list. Nobody really has primary evidence on any of this stuff, but we can go by the results of him being traded, snubbed, passed over, and continuing to be buried in the minors (and now by a highly touted coaching staff) for a pretty long time with consistency.

These perceptions surrounding him have been going on for like 5 years on every team. Could they be just a snowballing reputation based on little substance? Possibly, but that just seems like the far less likely scenario, right? Why would any team that has had him benefit by calling him out? Especially the Isles, who used a 1st round pick on him and then they are going to buy into and continue the same conspiracy that has followed Ho Sang in juniors? Why?

 

[Goodbahd]

It’s amazing how much attention a mediocre AHLer like Josh “NBA” Ho-Sang gets.

 

[buud]

It’s amazing how much a mediocre AHLer like Josh “NBA” Ho-Sang gets.

how much what? money? praise? must be something else, because he doesn't get much of either of those two things.

he is a project for sure, so right now, he is getting a lot of attention. he is high risk/reward, so sure, us fans are watching him closely.

and i might add that he is becoming a pretty good AHLer. with Lou Lams, we finally have a decent supporting cast in Bridgeport, so i expect more from HJS. will probably never be lauded for his defensive prowess, but certainly has game braking skills.