Player Discussion Jones signs 2 year extension

[yukoner88]

According to Leaf fans he wants to play in Toronto and will sign a team friendly deal.

Think anyone will have the heart to tell the laugh's fan base that their 1967 model record player is broken?

 

[Aceboogie]

Great post. I've felt the same way but didn't have these points to back it up.

I am not saying that he didnt have reservations on JP. But I am guessing what happened was Columbus was thinking "we really need a center, PLD is a great prospect, well have to make this gamble." It wasnt "I have better information on Finnish players because I am Finnish, even though others spend more time watching the high profile Finnish prospect than I do because I am in NA being a GM- so I know JP will be a bust"

If Jarmo had such tremendous insight, he would have picked better Finnish prospects.

Hell, I didnt even mention that in 2015, Columbus picked Gabriel Carlsson 29th (who?). Meanwhile passing up super Fin, Sebastion Aho, who was picked 6 spots later- who was on JPs team and was lighting it up and not some random prospect at the draft. He was pretty well known

I wont defend the JP pick. I dont know what % to allocate his busting to 1. bad development 2. himself or work ethic and 3. straight up bad luck/stardom not being in the cards. But I do not buy the "Jarmo Knew" line for one second.

 

[Stoneman89]

Good signing, but isn't he still an AHLer?

He's producing at a Kris Russell pace while being poor defensively. Eye-test wise he looks like he has skill in skating and moving the puck, but his decision making is quite poor at this point and he doesn't produce offence either.

I get that replacing him for Russell would free up tons of cap space so I like the idea that way, but wouldn't Lagesson be a better fit for our NHL group? Even Matt Benning fills the 3rd pairing RD better than Jones.

On one of the worst defensive corps in the entire NHL, I don't see an actual spot for Jones unless he significantly improves.

Shame, because his brother is (for my money) one of the best defencemen in the entire world.

No he wouldn't. And certainly not at this time.

 

[Tyrolean]

The Jarmo stuff is a massive red hearing IMO

1) Every scouting agency and pretty much every team/analyst/person who had insight into prospects had JP as the clear #3. Why are we holding Jarmo as some master scout and the only person of authority on the subject? he made a gamble and it paid off. He drafted Milano ahead of a Fin in Kapenen (miss), or Pastranak ( a euro, big miss). He drafted Werenski above Rantanen. And while Werensk is a great D, Rantanen is a beast

Jarmo actually has a pretty average to poor draft record. And has no history of being a great Finnish player scout who magically knows more than any other GM/Scout

2) The draft, even in the top 5, is a crap shoot. Plenty of busts arise from players everyone thought was going to be stars. Bennett anyone.

3)The Oilers also dont have a great track record of developing players. Rushing someone over to NA, sticking them in a league worst bottom 6 for 2 years is not a receipt for success. Id imagine we would have also ruined Dubios and probably turned Laine into a average top 6er had we got either one and put them into the same development path. We ruined MPS doing that. Draisaitl was a similar mold of prospect, but thankfully he was stapled to Hall in the top 6 in year 2 and on

I hate to turn this into a JP thread. But seeing people talking about Jamro and how he magically knew JP was going to be a bust is hilarious. He doesnt know more about Fin prospects than anyone else. If he did, he would have found some of the greta Fin players that have been drafted during his tenure

Its a case of prospects being wildcards, and also bad development (its a combo of both). Jarmo just happens to be Finnish and passed up a winger for a center and got ass lucky (or maybe they turn JP into a stud by leaving him in Finland for 2 years)

Herring.

 

[SwedishFire]

The Jarmo stuff is a massive red hearing IMO

1) Every scouting agency and pretty much every team/analyst/person who had insight into prospects had JP as the clear #3. Why are we holding Jarmo as some master scout and the only person of authority on the subject? he made a gamble and it paid off. He drafted Milano ahead of a Fin in Kapenen (miss), or Pastranak ( a euro, big miss). He drafted Werenski above Rantanen. And while Werensk is a great D, Rantanen is a beast

Jarmo actually has a pretty average to poor draft record. And has no history of being a great Finnish player scout who magically knows more than any other GM/Scout

2) The draft, even in the top 5, is a crap shoot. Plenty of busts arise from players everyone thought was going to be stars. Bennett anyone.

3)The Oilers also dont have a great track record of developing players. Rushing someone over to NA, sticking them in a league worst bottom 6 for 2 years is not a receipt for success. Id imagine we would have also ruined Dubios and probably turned Laine into a average top 6er had we got either one and put them into the same development path. We ruined MPS doing that. Draisaitl was a similar mold of prospect, but thankfully he was stapled to Hall in the top 6 in year 2 and on

I hate to turn this into a JP thread. But seeing people talking about Jamro and how he magically knew JP was going to be a bust is hilarious. He doesnt know more about Fin prospects than anyone else. If he did, he would have found some of the greta Fin players that have been drafted during his tenure

Its a case of prospects being wildcards, and also bad development (its a combo of both). Jarmo just happens to be Finnish and passed up a winger for a center and got ass lucky (or maybe they turn JP into a stud by leaving him in Finland for 2 years)

But passing on Rantanen doesnt ment Jarmo didnt belived in him, he may have seen bigger things in Werenski, more a question of which position he wanted to draft. I also dont mean that Jarmo should have known how good Rantanen should become, but its clear he belived in Werenski. And I dont blame him. He is a toptalented defenceman.

WHen it comes to top prospects, pretty much every prospect that comes out from Eurocountries are tracked. I could agree with you, that Jarmo should have founds in the later rounds. Why didnt he scoop up Aho, thats a question.

When it comes to Milano, Jarmo said in an interview he clearly wanted to pick someone else, but another team snagged Jarmo on that pick. Milano busted a bit, but he wasnt Jarms first choice.

 

[voxel]

Jones replaces nobody. He’s a spare D right now. Still valuable to have because of injuries and we no longer have to play Manning.

 

[voxel]

Don't disagree with you.

My post was in reference to the posters here claiming he is a solid bottom pairing defenceman. I don't see that. I think he belongs in the AHL still. Lagesson is a way better fit on our bottom pairing WHEN Russell is gone. Jones doesn't have the defensive aptitude or the offensive ability to really fit anywhere in our lineup - yet. Even Matt Benning is a better fit on our bottom pairing, and I can't stand him as a player.

Nurse-Bear
Klefbom-Bouchard
Lagesson-Persson

Lots of rookies, but I think if we rid ourselves of Kris Russell and Adam Larsson to free up salary, this is our 6 best defencemen right now in the organization.

From here, you probably look to combine the salary you've saved in deals moving away from Russ and Lars, and bring in a top pairing guy - or you pray this is 'good enough' and use that extra cap space on winger depth.

Bouchard looks VERY good in the AHL right now. Significantly better than Jones. Persson looks great too, but we saw him struggle at the NHL level this year. I think bringing in a top pairing RHD somehow would fix everything. Then you move on from him in a couple years when Bouchard enters his prime. Sure would be nice if Jeff Petry was around right now...

I'm not sure how Caleb Jones, without significant improvement to his offensive prowess, finds his way into this lineup at all in the next decade. Do you? I mean, he plays some games right now ... but I think this was more of a look and see. Some potential there for sure, but man ... I think he is this organizations like...10th best guy? 11th? He's pretty far down the chart for me.

Nurse
Klefbom
Bouchard
Bear
Lagesson
Benning
Persson
Larsson
Russell
Jones?

Keep in mind he's not that young anymore. Reminds me a bit of the trap this fan base fell into with Marincin. At this point, you sort of have what you have...

While I’m no big fan of Jones you overrate Persson. He’s Logan Day 2.0. Persson should play forward. He’s dynamic offensively. I have no clue what he’s doing defensively in the AHL. Bouchard is overrated too. Excellent PP Dman right now but that’s all. At least Jones played top pair on the Condors and excelled. His brain farts are still there but lessening. I suspect Jones I. The one that replaces Benning in a year or two.

 

[Llamamoto]

Jarmo watched lots of JP's games before the draft and noticed that JP:

a. Was always skating right beside the centreman in the offensive zone;
b. Felt that the best way to play offense was to stand near opposing players in the offensive zone;
c. Could not maintain the cycle in the offensive zone; and,
d. Did not think he would ever have to learn English.

In light of all this, Jarmo decided to draft Dubois.

How do you know Jarmo identified that?

 

[Aceboogie]

But passing on Rantanen doesnt ment Jarmo didnt belived in him, he may have seen bigger things in Werenski, more a question of which position he wanted to draft. I also dont mean that Jarmo should have known how good Rantanen should become, but its clear he belived in Werenski. And I dont blame him. He is a toptalented defenceman.

WHen it comes to top prospects, pretty much every prospect that comes out from Eurocountries are tracked. I could agree with you, that Jarmo should have founds in the later rounds. Why didnt he scoop up Aho, thats a question.

When it comes to Milano, Jarmo said in an interview he clearly wanted to pick someone else, but another team snagged Jarmo on that pick. Milano busted a bit, but he wasnt Jarms first choice.

Jarmo picked a player he thought would be good and fits a positional need. Same thing he did for PLD. Full stop. It's what every GM does.

 

[Aerchon]

Jones replaces nobody. He’s a spare D right now. Still valuable to have because of injuries and we no longer have to play Manning.

Agree about Jones in this quote.

Surprised about Persson. In the nhl he rushed his play when pressured but was virtually brain fart free in comparison to Jones at the NHL level.

Surprised about Bouchard as well. Bouchard was more brain fart free in comparison to Jones at the nhl level as well. His issue was skating and positioning primarily.

To be perfectly honest Jones still seems rough defensively but his skating masks it better. Persson and Bouchard are both better at outlet passes and general hockey iq. Both significantly better through the neutral and offensive zone.

Jones, is a good skater with nothing else of note. Should end up being a solid, cheap, bottom pairing guy eventually and maybe more but both Persson and Bouchard have more talent and execution. From my limited viewing at the nhl level.

And as a positive for Jones he slowly seems to be getting better at the nhl level. Defense development is not linear in most cases so maybe he is just adjusting to nhl life.

 

[gordonhught]

How do you know Jarmo identified that?

Just a joke. I should have used a sarcasm emoji.

 

[MessierII]

Surprised about Bouchard as well. Bouchard was more brain fart free in comparison to Jones at the nhl level as well. His issue was skating and positioning primarily.

No he wasn’t. Where are you getting this? Bouchard was the ice for 1 even strength goal for and 5 against in his stint. That’s not brain fart free that’s awful and a huge net negative.

 

[JBear]

I'm slotting Jones as a bottom pairing Dman and if he's better than that... Bonus! It's Bouchard who I'm banking on to be top 3 in the future but we still need Larsson and Russell to shelter and for a playoff run.

 

[McDNicks17]

No he wasn’t. Where are you getting this? Bouchard was the ice for 1 even strength goal for and 5 against in his stint. That’s not brain fart free that’s awful and a huge net negative.

Using +/- for 70 minute sample sizes is pretty pointless.

Bouchard had the second lowest scoring chances against and lowest high danger scoring chances against rates on the team last season.

He was fine defensively. That .903 PDO wasn't doing him any favors though.

 

[Aerchon]

No he wasn’t. Where are you getting this? Bouchard was the ice for 1 even strength goal for and 5 against in his stint. That’s not brain fart free that’s awful and a huge net negative.

Using +/- for 70 minute sample sizes is pretty pointless.

Bouchard had the second lowest scoring chances against and lowest high danger scoring chances against rates on the team last season.

He was fine defensively. That .903 PDO wasn't doing him any favors though.

Thanks @McDNicks17

I like + - when used with a good head/eye test. In context and a lot of viewings.

Using it the way Messier does here certainly shows how useless the stat can be.

Bouchard played well. The team struggled in its decision to keep him up as a rookie.

They made the right choice imo but people forget how "good" he was in comparison to say Jones.

Some players excell as their rookie season goes on some don't. If the Oilers decided to keep him on the roster I personally would not have complained. From what I saw he would be at least as good as Jones.

 

[replacement]

Jones is much better defensively than Bouchard by eye and by count in the NHL and the AHL. Bouchard is an offensive savant, but he's got tons of work to do to be a net positive in the NHL. He's not even that in the AHL right now.

 

[MessierII]

Using +/- for 70 minute sample sizes is pretty pointless.

Bouchard had the second lowest scoring chances against and lowest high danger scoring chances against rates on the team last season.

He was fine defensively. That .903 PDO wasn't doing him any favors though.

Using those stats in that small of a sample size is also useless. Bouchard was not good defensively then nor was he this year in camp. That’s why Bear is on the team and he isn’t.

 

[McDNicks17]

Using those stats in that small of a sample size is also useless. Bouchard was not good defensively then nor was he this year in camp. That’s why Bear is on the team and he isn’t.

Bear is three years older and pretty close to the best defenseman on the team.

Losing the competition to him really isn't an indictment on Bouchard.

 

[MessierII]

Bear is three years older and pretty close to the best defenseman on the team.

Losing the competition to him really isn't an indictment on Bouchard.

All I’m saying is he’s not defensively ready at the pro level. I don’t know why you and some others are trying to argue that he is. It’s baseless.

 

[ConnorMcMullet]

Great game tonight by Caleb Jones. He's really been coming out these past couple weeks and looks to be stepping up in Klefbom's absence.

It will be huge to have him at $850k for the next two seasons.

 

[Jepprey]

Tippett was pumping Jones up at his presser. Jones can hang and has been getting better each game this season. He was great with Larsson tonight.

Easier to let Russell go in the summer for cap purposes too.

 

[BarDownBobo]

Tippett was pumping Jones up at his presser. Jones can hang and has been getting better each game this season. He was great with Larsson tonight.

Easier to let Russell go in the summer for cap purposes too.

Russell might be in tough to be in the lineup once the team gets healthy this year even. Nice to have for insurance going into the playoffs but I think it’s a given he’s gone this summer.

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

What more can you say. This was his toughest test of the season, fill in for Klefbom in the top-4 against the best team in the league, and he had his best game of the season, imo. The maturation and development has been very impressive and gives me so much confidence in him for this team going forward.

 

[McSpecial DraiBlend]

I agree .
His game was great. I honestly would prefer him in OT with his skating. He isnt a dumb player either.

What more can you say. This was his toughest test of the season, fill in for Klefbom in the top-4 against the best team in the league, and he had his best game of the season, imo. The maturation and development has been very impressive and gives me so much confidence in him for this team going forward.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

IMO he needs to improve his strength to take the next step in his development. Really liking the offensive element that he brings to our team from the left side.