Player Discussion Jones signs 2 year extension

[ujju2]

If we make the playoffs this season, I can't see us moving Larsson in the offseason. I can see the following for next season:

Klefbom-Larsson
Nurse-Bear
Jones-Persson/Bouchard/Benning
Lagesson/Benning

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

It's certainly low for Bear, but Nurse isn't worth any more than 6 imo.

Well prepare to have your opinion challenged.

 

[tardigrade81]

My truck had a flat tire yesterday......

Oh boy........

Oilers winning the Cup I guess will make it worth it. Even if it’s daily...... granted let’s hope that doesn’t happen. -43 in Regina today.

 

[SwedishFire]

Series of moves I'm leaning towards

• Let Larsson finish the year with the team, hopefully he builds his value the remaining half of the season and, fingers crossed, through the post-season.

Larsson is what he is, when his confidence is there, he can bring outlett passes, hit good, being defensive smart player. Something has hit him. I dont know. But he will always be a somewhat limited player. The hands isnt there.

• Get rid of Russell's contract... it will probably require a little bit of retention. I'd even take on an ugly contract that had 1 year remaining which fills a hole on the roster (3C, middle 6 winger).

If the actual talent is there, then I accept a ugly contract - and thats one of the best neogationpoint in the leauge today, everyteam overbuy their wallet, to squeee into the playoff. If Oilers can do that, they can be the ones that sets the bar in deals.

• [*]Trade Larsson at the draft for a 2020 1st.
  [*]Package JP + a 2020 2nd for a winger with top 6 upside.

• 
  
• This can be hard, if really doubt that Larsson could et a 1st rounder. If the 1st rounder is in the 25 - 30 range, and that Oilers add a 2second, then maybe up to pick 20. no more than that.
• And the best case for Oilers, is to stockpile the value in a deal with Larsson + JP. But I really dont think that fits any team. And I doubt that Puljujärvis value is there yet. He is too unmature and close to the point where he is finnished in his developement. I think actually he did right leaving Oilers, its clear this organisation doesnt have a clue how to develope talent that isnt Surefire elite. Closte to not even that, see Draisaitls first year.

• [*]If we can't get Bear in the range of $4.5 on a long-term deal, give him a bridge deal.

• 4,5 in a long term deal is gutsy. If he signs 6 years, Ill do it. Shorter term than that. No thank you. Then bridge him for 2,67 on three - four years.

• [*]If we can't get Nurse for less than $6.5 on a long-term deal I just start shopping him honestly.

• Agreed, even if he is important on this team. 6,5 is even that just too much. His offensive talent isnt there for a 6,5 million defender.

What would make a JP deal worth it?
Assuming this isn't a trade deadline deal
1. I'd consider packaging him to move up in this strong draft (under the right circumstances).
2. Getting a young, unproven prospect with top 6 upside. Not too many names come to mind. Mittelstadt would be nice, but I think Buffalo only considers it if they miss the post-season and become desperate. Vesalainen is another name.
3. Getting an NHL forward with top 6 upside who, for one reason or another, hasn't quite cracked the top 6 of their current team. Last year Burakovsky was such a guy. Roslovic & Athanasiou come to mind.

Athanasiou/McDavid/Kassian
Nuge/Draisaitl/Yamamoto
Benson/sign a 3C/Neal
Khaira/Sheahan/Chiasson
Nygard/?

Nurse/Bear
Klefbomb/(Bouchard or Persson)
Jones/Benning
Lagesson

[Edit: Meant to post in rumours & proposals]

I think Veselainen is a logical return for Oilers. Athanasiou probably reaquires a tad more. Add a decent player, Benning + Pulju for Athanasiou at best for oilers. But I dont know if I would do that. His +/- stat is, even if that stat is ridicoulus, a typical Oilers scoop-up player type. Im not sold on Athanasiou.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

And the best case for Oilers, is to stockpile the value in a deal with Larsson + JP. But I really dont think that fits any team. And I doubt that Puljujärvis value is there yet. He is too unmature and close to the point where he is finnished in his developement. I think actually he did right leaving Oilers, its clear this organisation doesnt have a clue how to develope talent that isnt Surefire elite. Closte to not even that, see Draisaitls first year..

Lol they tried Draisaitl up and it didn’t work out so they sent him down and he became a superstar. Are you really calling that development failure? Or even “close to not even that” What a joke.

Good thing JP left because the Oilers suck at developing? Hmm players who don’t want to change/adapt their game don’t develop well? SHOCKER. Can’t teach someone who doesn’t want to learn. It will be interesting when he bounces around the waiver wire next year how long people like you will still not let him carry any of the blame.

 

[ImmuneEH]

Larsson is what he is, when his confidence is there, he can bring outlett passes, hit good, being defensive smart player. Something has hit him. I dont know. But he will always be a somewhat limited player. The hands isnt there.

• This can be hard, if really doubt that Larsson could et a 1st rounder. If the 1st rounder is in the 25 - 30 range, and that Oilers add a 2second, then maybe up to pick 20. no more than that.
• And the best case for Oilers, is to stockpile the value in a deal with Larsson + JP. But I really dont think that fits any team. And I doubt that Puljujärvis value is there yet. He is too unmature and close to the point where he is finnished in his developement. I think actually he did right leaving Oilers, its clear this organisation doesnt have a clue how to develope talent that isnt Surefire elite. Closte to not even that, see Draisaitls first year.
• 4,5 in a long term deal is gutsy. If he signs 6 years, Ill do it. Shorter term than that. No thank you. Then bridge him for 2,67 on three - four years.
• Agreed, even if he is important on this team. 6,5 is even that just too much. His offensive talent isnt there for a 6,5 million defender.

I think Veselainen is a logical return for Oilers. Athanasiou probably reaquires a tad more. Add a decent player, Benning + Pulju for Athanasiou at best for oilers. But I dont know if I would do that. His +/- stat is, even if that stat is ridicoulus, a typical Oilers scoop-up player type. Im not sold on Athanasiou.

I think times have changed where the prices are inflated, so much so that a late 1st in return for Larsson, Bear at $4.5m long-term and Nurse at $6m+ long-term isn't far fetched. JP + a 2nd gets you something, maybe not Athanasiou. I'm not opposed to taking a gamble though.

In regards to developing talent, I think that used to be the case. Woodcroft & Manson have my trust down on the farm team. Chia wanted to keep Bouchard up in his rookie year and burn a year off his ELC. Holland was wise enough to keep Bouchard in the AHL - for likely the entire year (so as to not burn a year off his ELC). We may end up with 3 quality seasons of Bouchard in the NHL, all on his ELC. That's huge.

 

[ImmuneEH]

Lol they tried Draisaitl up and it didn’t work out so they sent him down and he became a superstar. Are you really calling that development failure? Or even “close to not even that” What a joke.

Good thing JP left because the Oilers suck at developing? Hmm players who don’t want to change/adapt their game don’t develop well? SHOCKER. Can’t teach someone who doesn’t want to learn. It will be interesting when he bounces around the waiver wire next year how long people like you will still not let him carry any of the blame.

For a while the Oilers were taking all of the blame for JP's failure, but I think now it's becoming clear that both sides were part of the problem. Idk what deals were on the table, but I think Holland has handled it well.

 

[SwedishFire]

I think times have changed where the prices are inflated, so much so that a late 1st in return for Larsson, Bear at $4.5m long-term and Nurse at $6m+ long-term isn't far fetched. JP + a 2nd gets you something, maybe not Athanasiou. I'm not opposed to taking a gamble though.

In regards to developing talent, I think that used to be the case. Woodcroft & Manson have my trust down on the farm team. Chia wanted to keep Bouchard up in his rookie year and burn a year off his ELC. Holland was wise enough to keep Bouchard in the AHL - for likely the entire year (so as to not burn a year off his ELC). We may end up with 3 quality seasons of Bouchard in the NHL, all on his ELC. That's huge.

This post was better than the one above. MacTavish kept Draisaitl up, because of lack of centers on the team. What a moron. If Oilers knew what they sould do with european developement, they should kept Puljujärvi at home. No wise move to bring a 18 year old, with none - zero english skills over the seas. Jesse wherent mature enough to handle all the things at once, and maybe we shouldnt blame him. That was poorly handled by Oilers. Oilers doesnt seem to high on the finnish Liiga. But the - why draft a unfinnished product that is a finn then.

 

[SwedishFire]

Lol they tried Draisaitl up and it didn’t work out so they sent him down and he became a superstar. Are you really calling that development failure? Or even “close to not even that” What a joke.

Good thing JP left because the Oilers suck at developing? Hmm players who don’t want to change/adapt their game don’t develop well? SHOCKER. Can’t teach someone who doesn’t want to learn. It will be interesting when he bounces around the waiver wire next year how long people like you will still not let him carry any of the blame.

Take of the homerglasses for a moment.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Take of the homerglasses for a moment.

Okay they are off... Drai is still a superstar and JP still does his same shitty habits in the C league he is currently playing in.

What am I looking for?

 

[Nostradumbass]

Klefbom, Nurse, Benning, Russell, Bear, Jones, Larsson, with Bouchard and Lagesson primed to be on the club next year.

Dollars vs play Larsson has been our least effective Dman for over two years.

I would strongly disagree with that, but to each their own. Nobody has played the quality of minutes that Larsson has, so he has allowed them to play in the roles they should be playing in.

 

[Aceboogie]

Jones should be a good bottom pairing D next year. Allows use to move Russell. Potential to be a #4 D some day, hopefully that happens

 

[GOilers88]

I would strongly disagree with that, but to each their own. Nobody has played the quality of minutes that Larsson has, so he has allowed them to play in the roles they should be playing in.

Yeah I keep seeing people spout off about Edmonton's perceived strength and depth on defense even though they're all unproven kids, then in the same breath turn around and try to ship out Nurse and Larsson. It's like they don't understand that depth means having proven players in the lineup with your young guns being sheltered and brought along behind them so as not to get thrown to the wolves.

What happens if Nurse or Larsson go? We're back to having unproven rookies and a bunch of 6/7 defensemen playing over their heads up the lineup because there's only three actual top 4 defensemen currently on the roster. But yeah let's ship one of them out.

This team doesn't have any good depth at any position. That includes defense. I really wish people would stop bragging about our abundance of really good defensive prospects cause I just don't see it.

 

[SwedishFire]

Okay they are off... Drai is still a superstar and JP still does his same ****ty habits in the C league he is currently playing in.

What am I looking for?

Drai was close to fail, but Oilers in the end found a new Junior team, and traded for Derek Roy .. like 4 months to late...

Edmonton should have never draft Puljujärvi. How many times has Oilers failed with esp. european prospects? To many times, except Klefbom. Everybody could see the Päärjävi again in Puljujärvi, but Jesse was more talented, and more fragile.

 

[GOilers88]

Drai was close to fail, but Oilers in the end found a new Junior team, and traded for Derek Roy .. like 4 months to late...

Edmonton should have never draft Puljujärvi. How many times has Oilers failed with esp. european prospects? To many times, except Klefbom. Everybody could see the Päärjävi again in Puljujärvi, but Jesse was more talented, and more fragile.

I feel confident in saying 30 other GMs would have drafted JP at 4th overall. It was consensus around the league.

That said, the fact that Edmonton never even scouted him at all and did no real homework of their own just makes it all the more worse.

 

[SwedishFire]

I feel confident in saying 30 other GMs would have drafted JP at 4th overall. It was consensus around the league.

That said, the fact that Edmonton never even scouted him at all and did no real homework of their own just makes it all the more worse.

Im not sure it was consensus. Pretty confident actually, that wasnt the case. Just look at Columbus. I dont think they would draft him even in the first round. Maybe just as a tradebait later.

 

[GOilers88]

Im not sure it was consensus. Pretty confident actually, that wasnt the case. Just look at Columbus. I dont think they would draft him even in the first round. Maybe just as a tradebait later.

Jarmo apparently knew something nobody else did. Far as I remember JP was the consensus #3 pick that year.

I could be entirely wrong in which case I apologize, but I feel like I remember that being the case.

 

[Llamamoto]

Im not sure it was consensus. Pretty confident actually, that wasnt the case. Just look at Columbus. I dont think they would draft him even in the first round. Maybe just as a tradebait later.

Jarmo apparently knew something nobody else did. Far as I remember JP was the consensus #3 pick that year.

I could be entirely wrong in which case I apologize, but I feel like I remember that being the case.

JP was the consensus 3rd overall pick. And I don't think Jarmo knew anything nobody else did. They desperately needed a center so he chose PLD.

 

[ImmuneEH]

JP was the consensus 3rd overall pick. And I don't think Jarmo knew anything nobody else did. They desperately needed a center so he chose PLD.

I really don't think it's more complicated than this. Just the same way Montreal needed a C and 'reached' for Kotkaniemi. Pretty sure both teams knew going in they'd need a C and did their homework.

 

[gordonhught]

Jarmo apparently knew something nobody else did. Far as I remember JP was the consensus #3 pick that year.

I could be entirely wrong in which case I apologize, but I feel like I remember that being the case.

Jarmo watched lots of JP's games before the draft and noticed that JP:

a. Was always skating right beside the centreman in the offensive zone;
b. Felt that the best way to play offense was to stand near opposing players in the offensive zone;
c. Could not maintain the cycle in the offensive zone; and,
d. Did not think he would ever have to learn English.

In light of all this, Jarmo decided to draft Dubois.

 

[SwedishFire]

JP was the consensus 3rd overall pick. And I don't think Jarmo knew anything nobody else did. They desperately needed a center so he chose PLD.

OK, I stand by my word. I think jarmo is a smart man, and know how the finnish people works psychologically.
And didnt wanted to pick him at the third spot. Pretty sure Tkachuk was ahead of him.

 

[SwedishFire]

ah sheit. This was a JOnes thread. I aplogize if this went to far. But now I feel I have said what I wanted to say. ANd everyone else can add something they want.

Continuing on Jones. I think he is a decent, average at everything player. we can keept him, we can loose him - if he brings something useful back. So yes, he is a good piece to have around. Not sure what the long term plan is for him on this team.

Maybe he can develope to a safer, but less edgy Nurse type.

 

[Nostradumbass]

Jarmo watched lots of JP's games before the draft and noticed that JP:

a. Was always skating right beside the centreman in the offensive zone;
b. Felt that the best way to play offense was to stand near opposing players in the offensive zone;
c. Could not maintain the cycle in the offensive zone; and,
d. Did not think he would ever have to learn English.

In light of all this, Jarmo decided to draft Dubois.

Do you have a link?

 

[Aceboogie]

Jarmo watched lots of JP's games before the draft and noticed that JP:

a. Was always skating right beside the centreman in the offensive zone;
b. Felt that the best way to play offense was to stand near opposing players in the offensive zone;
c. Could not maintain the cycle in the offensive zone; and,
d. Did not think he would ever have to learn English.

In light of all this, Jarmo decided to draft Dubois.

The Jarmo stuff is a massive red hearing IMO

1) Every scouting agency and pretty much every team/analyst/person who had insight into prospects had JP as the clear #3. Why are we holding Jarmo as some master scout and the only person of authority on the subject? he made a gamble and it paid off. He drafted Milano ahead of a Fin in Kapenen (miss), or Pastranak ( a euro, big miss). He drafted Werenski above Rantanen. And while Werensk is a great D, Rantanen is a beast

Jarmo actually has a pretty average to poor draft record. And has no history of being a great Finnish player scout who magically knows more than any other GM/Scout

2) The draft, even in the top 5, is a crap shoot. Plenty of busts arise from players everyone thought was going to be stars. Bennett anyone.

3)The Oilers also dont have a great track record of developing players. Rushing someone over to NA, sticking them in a league worst bottom 6 for 2 years is not a receipt for success. Id imagine we would have also ruined Dubios and probably turned Laine into a average top 6er had we got either one and put them into the same development path. We ruined MPS doing that. Draisaitl was a similar mold of prospect, but thankfully he was stapled to Hall in the top 6 in year 2 and on

I hate to turn this into a JP thread. But seeing people talking about Jamro and how he magically knew JP was going to be a bust is hilarious. He doesnt know more about Fin prospects than anyone else. If he did, he would have found some of the greta Fin players that have been drafted during his tenure

Its a case of prospects being wildcards, and also bad development (its a combo of both). Jarmo just happens to be Finnish and passed up a winger for a center and got ass lucky (or maybe they turn JP into a stud by leaving him in Finland for 2 years)

 

[ImmuneEH]

The Jarmo stuff is a massive red hearing IMO

1) Every scouting agency and pretty much every team/analyst/person who had insight into prospects had JP as the clear #3. Why are we holding Jarmo as some master scout and the only person of authority on the subject? he made a gamble and it paid off. He drafted Milano ahead of a Fin in Kapenen (miss), or Pastranak ( a euro, big miss). He drafted Werenski above Rantanen. And while Werensk is a great D, Rantanen is a beast

Jarmo actually has a pretty average to poor draft record. And has no history of being a great Finnish player scout who magically knows more than any other GM/Scout

2) The draft, even in the top 5, is a crap shoot. Plenty of busts arise from players everyone thought was going to be stars. Bennett anyone.

3)The Oilers also dont have a great track record of developing players. Rushing someone over to NA, sticking them in a league worst bottom 6 for 2 years is not a receipt for success. Id imagine we would have also ruined Dubios and probably turned Laine into a average top 6er had we got either one and put them into the same development path. We ruined MPS doing that. Draisaitl was a similar mold of prospect, but thankfully he was stapled to Hall in the top 6 in year 2 and on

I hate to turn this into a JP thread. But seeing people talking about Jamro and how he magically knew JP was going to be a bust is hilarious. He doesnt know more about Fin prospects than anyone else. If he did, he would have found some of the greta Fin players that have been drafted during his tenure

Its a case of prospects being wildcards, and also bad development (its a combo of both). Jarmo just happens to be Finnish and passed up a winger for a center and got ass lucky (or maybe they turn JP into a stud by leaving him in Finland for 2 years)

Great post. I've felt the same way but didn't have these points to back it up.