Value of: Jonathan Drouin

[McJedi]

More than happy to keep Drouin rather than trading him for your garbage players like Jost and Zadorov. Makes zero sense to trade Drouin who at worst will provide 53pts on a bottom 10 team. On atop 5 team he would produce much higher.

With hands like he showed on his penalty shot dump-in, Drouin would be playing on our AHL team, the Eagles.... With Jost, if that makes you feel better.

Jost was actually quite good today. Set up Calvert for two A++ scoring chances.
Drouins trade value is basically 0. At least Jost makes less than 1mm per.

 

[BoltSTH]

His value << Sergachev

 

[Galaxydoggystyle]

Drouin is already 25, prime years are 23-26. He's approaching the end of his prime not the beginning.

Not only that but Drouin hasn't struggled because he needs a centre, he's gotten tons of time already with good centres. Danault and Domi are both really good, Drouin hasn't been playing with scrubs. He's bad because he's bad, not because he plays with bad centres. Suzuki/KK playing to their potential won't change that.

Investing more money in Tatar and Domi makes way more sense than holding on to Drouin and his anchor of a $5.5m cap hit. Habs can afford Tatar, Gallagher, Petry, and Domi if they can cut out some dead weight (like Drouin). The cap space isn't that tight. Paying good players isn't a bad thing. Holding on to bad players making lots of money is.

Really and what do you honestly think Petry Gallagher and Tatar will be signing for? remember Gallagher is at a bargain price right now and will easily make double what hes making now. Now onto Suzuki who is making peanuts at the moment on a rookie contract he is easily going to get around what Drouin is getting if he continues his trend upwards. The cap space is actually tight I have not seen any Habs fan actually do the math when it comes to what they will FAIRLY resign for.

As for Tatar you actually think its a good idea to sign a player that is going to be 30 years old when we aren't even competing at the moment?

I get the hate Drouin is getting but he is still putting up reasonable numbers hes making 5.5m and is easily a 2nd line player that is 25 years old which isn't that old. Do I expect he will become what he was hyped up to be? nope I expect him to be a 2nd line forward that puts up 50ish points and if hes having a good year maybe 60. If you say trade him then who is going to take him? and how much cap will be coming back? the way you guys speak about Drouin hes totally dog shit in your eyes so I guess his value is negative so he isn't worth anything and we have to sweeten the pot to get a team to take him. (please for the love of god don't bring up the Aves because that horse has been beaten to death and shot with a gatling gun)

Gallagher - 3.75m
Tatar - 4.8m(not sure if this is with the other teams eating up some of the cap or not)
Suzuki - 870k
Danault - 3m
Domi - 3.15m
Petry - 5.5m

What do you think is fair they will sign at and for how long when it comes to Petry and Tatar? I am not comfortable giving Petry anything longer then 3 years so he might say screw that its his last big contract and go to FA. Also you have to leave room for emergencies not all our prospects are ready for the big show yet.

I get investing in good players is a good thing (Duh) but you have to look at the teams window and where we are at and if we even have a chance at getting the cup because as I see it we have not been making the playoffs with this group so something has to change either it be a full on rebuild with the young kids or we stay middle of the pack and get shitty 10-15 round picks when we could actually get a shot at an actual super star forward we have been missing the last 30 years. (and yes I know this team can't get higher picks with price in net as much as I shit on the dude he still decent just not super star vezina level anymore)

So you ready for a few more years with the same group that has missed the playoffs the last 4-5 seasons? and even if they made the playoffs you think this group of players can make it to the promised land? I rather the habs either trade young prospects as trade chips or we fold this shitty hand we built and start an actual rebuild. Staying middle of the pack like we have does us no good we need change and it needs to start soon we need an actual direction. MB's 5 year plan is turning into 10 years.

 

[Patagonia]

Drouin is already 25, prime years are 23-26. He's approaching the end of his prime not the beginning.

Not only that but Drouin hasn't struggled because he needs a centre, he's gotten tons of time already with good centres. Danault and Domi are both really good, Drouin hasn't been playing with scrubs. He's bad because he's bad, not because he plays with bad centres. Suzuki/KK playing to their potential won't change that.

Investing more money in Tatar and Domi makes way more sense than holding on to Drouin and his anchor of a $5.5m cap hit. Habs can afford Tatar, Gallagher, Petry, and Domi if they can cut out some dead weight (like Drouin). The cap space isn't that tight. Paying good players isn't a bad thing. Holding on to bad players making lots of money is.

Drouin has the tools, but terrible attitude with poor hockey IQ. He’s likely peaked and unlikely to get much better. He couldn’t score with high powered TB and given prime options with the Habs. His point totals are inflated with so many chances. Playoffs plays tighten and exposed he’s overrated and needs to be dumped.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

With hands like he showed on his penalty shot dump-in, Drouin would be playing on our AHL team, the Eagles.... With Jost, if that makes you feel better.

Jost was actually quite good today. Set up Calvert for two A++ scoring chances.
Drouins trade value is basically 0. At least Jost makes less than 1mm per.

Drouin s 5.5M is proportional to his typical 50+ point production. Jost is an AHLer. Period.

 

[FedorTyutin]

I don't remember what the Wild fans think of receiving Drouin for Brodin. Let's say he comes in extended, or is extended right away, what would the Habs have to add in order to land Brodin?

 

[mynamejeff420]

Really and what do you honestly think Petry Gallagher and Tatar will be signing for? remember Gallagher is at a bargain price right now and will easily make double what hes making now. Now onto Suzuki who is making peanuts at the moment on a rookie contract he is easily going to get around what Drouin is getting if he continues his trend upwards. The cap space is actually tight I have not seen any Habs fan actually do the math when it comes to what they will FAIRLY resign for.

As for Tatar you actually think its a good idea to sign a player that is going to be 30 years old when we aren't even competing at the moment?

I get the hate Drouin is getting but he is still putting up reasonable numbers hes making 5.5m and is easily a 2nd line player that is 25 years old which isn't that old. Do I expect he will become what he was hyped up to be? nope I expect him to be a 2nd line forward that puts up 50ish points and if hes having a good year maybe 60. If you say trade him then who is going to take him? and how much cap will be coming back? the way you guys speak about Drouin hes totally dog shit in your eyes so I guess his value is negative so he isn't worth anything and we have to sweeten the pot to get a team to take him. (please for the love of god don't bring up the Aves because that horse has been beaten to death and shot with a gatling gun)

Gallagher - 3.75m
Tatar - 4.8m(not sure if this is with the other teams eating up some of the cap or not)
Suzuki - 870k
Danault - 3m
Domi - 3.15m
Petry - 5.5m

What do you think is fair they will sign at and for how long when it comes to Petry and Tatar? I am not comfortable giving Petry anything longer then 3 years so he might say screw that its his last big contract and go to FA. Also you have to leave room for emergencies not all our prospects are ready for the big show yet.

I get investing in good players is a good thing (Duh) but you have to look at the teams window and where we are at and if we even have a chance at getting the cup because as I see it we have not been making the playoffs with this group so something has to change either it be a full on rebuild with the young kids or we stay middle of the pack and get shitty 10-15 round picks when we could actually get a shot at an actual super star forward we have been missing the last 30 years. (and yes I know this team can't get higher picks with price in net as much as I shit on the dude he still decent just not super star vezina level anymore)

So you ready for a few more years with the same group that has missed the playoffs the last 4-5 seasons? and even if they made the playoffs you think this group of players can make it to the promised land? I rather the habs either trade young prospects as trade chips or we fold this shitty hand we built and start an actual rebuild. Staying middle of the pack like we have does us no good we need change and it needs to start soon we need an actual direction. MB's 5 year plan is turning into 10 years.

First of all Drouin is by no means a 2nd line player. He scores at a third line rate (228th in 5v5 P/60 over the last 3 years despite constantly playing with the best offensive players on the Habs). His defense is also awful. So really (at best) he's a third line scorer who is awful defensively. Like he's a negative WAR player for a reason. Paying $5.5m for a third liner (tbf Drouin's probably worse than a third liner) is certainly an overpayment. Drouin isn't trending upwards, he's trending downwards. We need get him off the books ASAP, while he still has value. I don't think he's currently considered a negative asset around the league, and the Habs wouldn't have to add anything to unload his contract, but I don't think that'll be true for much longer.

Now on to the other point. I don't think the Habs are that far away from being a good team tbh. I think if the young guys step up and some prospects pan out, we could be sitting on a really good team in a couple of years. Remove the dead weight, and you've got more than enough room to keep the rest of the band together. Let's do the math, shall we?

Note: I'm using CapFriendly for all this, so that's where I'm getting the final numbers.

This offseason the only critical re-signings we need to make are Domi and Mete. Everyone else can be let go (and we can re-sign the ones worth keeping for under $1m). Remove Drouin (bad) and Chiarot (Romanov replaces him) and we're left with ~$22m in cap space with a roster of 21. Signing Domi and Mete long term should only cost around $10m total (Domi @ 6.25x5 and Mete @ 3.625x5 using Evolving-Hockey's contract projections), leaving us with a full roster and $12.3m in cap space going in to the 20/21 season.

Now projecting this far in the future is a bit of a fool's errand because rosters will have changed a ton by then, but this is more for the purposes of laying out that we can afford to re-sign all these guys. So, following the 20/21 season, we'll have 13 roster players signed with $38.5m in cap space. Add in a couple prospects making the team in depth roles (ex: Caufield, Norlinder) and we're left with 8 spots to fill and $37m to spend. Who do we need to re-sign? Armia, Danault, Gallagher, Kotkaniemi, Lehkonen, Petry, Tatar, and Weal. Now we can let Armia and Weal go, they're easily replaced (by Caufield and whoever plays on the 4th line). So now let's say Danault, Gallagher, Petry, and Tatar all ask for $7m a year (no chance they all collectively make $28m, but I'm just saying we could fit it in). That leaves us with ~$9m and all we only need to re-sign Kotkaniemi, Lehkonen, and 2 depth forwards. Those depth guys will make ~1.6m total, so really we're left with $7m for KK and Lehkonen. If both come in at ~3.5m (little high imo but not unreasonable on short term bridge deals) we just fit everyone in under the cap.

So if all that happens, what are we left with? We shipped out Drouin and Chiarot, and we let Armia, Folin, Weal, and Weise (and a bunch of other guys) walk as UFAs. We added guys like Evans and Caufield to fill up the departing forward slots, and guys like Romanov and Norlinder to fill up the departing defensemen slots. Not only that but we managed to keep all of Tatar, Danault, Gallagher, Domi, Mete, and Petry without going over the cap, and I gave all of them fair (if not more than fair) contracts. With a little roster surgery we should be able to afford all the important players' cap hits, the only real concern should be term.

 

[McSuper]

Has 3 years left at about 5.5 million. He scores about 40-50 pts on the Canadiens.

Anyone out there thinks their team would give more than a 2nd round pick for him?

I would do a first for him if we could send Russell back . He is owed 1.5 million for 1 year while having a cap hit of 4 million . Not sure the Canadians would do it and I am not sure Russell would waive . Of course that depends on Edmonton’s pick as well . They were terrible against the Hawks in game 1 so they could be in the running for Lafreniere.

 

[Galaxydoggystyle]

First of all Drouin is by no means a 2nd line player. He scores at a third line rate (228th in 5v5 P/60 over the last 3 years despite constantly playing with the best offensive players on the Habs). His defense is also awful. So really (at best) he's a third line scorer who is awful defensively. Like he's a negative WAR player for a reason. Paying $5.5m for a third liner (tbf Drouin's probably worse than a third liner) is certainly an overpayment. Drouin isn't trending upwards, he's trending downwards. We need get him off the books ASAP, while he still has value. I don't think he's currently considered a negative asset around the league, and the Habs wouldn't have to add anything to unload his contract, but I don't think that'll be true for much longer.

Now on to the other point. I don't think the Habs are that far away from being a good team tbh. I think if the young guys step up and some prospects pan out, we could be sitting on a really good team in a couple of years. Remove the dead weight, and you've got more than enough room to keep the rest of the band together. Let's do the math, shall we?

Note: I'm using CapFriendly for all this, so that's where I'm getting the final numbers.

This offseason the only critical re-signings we need to make are Domi and Mete. Everyone else can be let go (and we can re-sign the ones worth keeping for under $1m). Remove Drouin (bad) and Chiarot (Romanov replaces him) and we're left with ~$22m in cap space with a roster of 21. Signing Domi and Mete long term should only cost around $10m total (Domi @ 6.25x5 and Mete @ 3.625x5 using Evolving-Hockey's contract projections), leaving us with a full roster and $12.3m in cap space going in to the 20/21 season.

Now projecting this far in the future is a bit of a fool's errand because rosters will have changed a ton by then, but this is more for the purposes of laying out that we can afford to re-sign all these guys. So, following the 20/21 season, we'll have 13 roster players signed with $38.5m in cap space. Add in a couple prospects making the team in depth roles (ex: Caufield, Norlinder) and we're left with 8 spots to fill and $37m to spend. Who do we need to re-sign? Armia, Danault, Gallagher, Kotkaniemi, Lehkonen, Petry, Tatar, and Weal. Now we can let Armia and Weal go, they're easily replaced (by Caufield and whoever plays on the 4th line). So now let's say Danault, Gallagher, Petry, and Tatar all ask for $7m a year (no chance they all collectively make $28m, but I'm just saying we could fit it in). That leaves us with ~$9m and all we only need to re-sign Kotkaniemi, Lehkonen, and 2 depth forwards. Those depth guys will make ~1.6m total, so really we're left with $7m for KK and Lehkonen. If both come in at ~3.5m (little high imo but not unreasonable on short term bridge deals) we just fit everyone in under the cap.

So if all that happens, what are we left with? We shipped out Drouin and Chiarot, and we let Armia, Folin, Weal, and Weise (and a bunch of other guys) walk as UFAs. We added guys like Evans and Caufield to fill up the departing forward slots, and guys like Romanov and Norlinder to fill up the departing defensemen slots. Not only that but we managed to keep all of Tatar, Danault, Gallagher, Domi, Mete, and Petry without going over the cap, and I gave all of them fair (if not more than fair) contracts. With a little roster surgery we should be able to afford all the important players' cap hits, the only real concern should be term.

So basically your plan is to rely on prospects panning out and trading Drouin and Chariot for some reason while we are still stuck with a very weak left side on D. I am not here to argue but was interested in the plan on how to resign all these players. Also Suzuki needs to be resigned a year after.

 

[Freaky Styley]

Drouin s 5.5M is proportional to his typical 50+ point production. Jost is an AHLer. Period.

You'd think if he was an AHLer, he'd be in the AHL and not contributing on one of the best teams in the league. Jost being the odd man out speaks more to the Avs depth than to his ability. He would be a 3rd liner on half of the teams in the league and could produce more in the right situation.

 

[ole ole]

You'd think if he was an AHLer, he'd be in the AHL and not contributing on one of the best teams in the league. Jost being the odd man out speaks more to the Avs depth than to his ability. He would be a 3rd liner on half of the teams in the league and could produce more in the right situation.

If it's a choice between Jost and Drouin than it Drouin quite easily.

 

[Freaky Styley]

Jost couldn't hold Drouins jockstrap and that's with Drouin playing as badly as he is.

I wasn't comparing Jost to Drouin, just pointing out the ignorance behind a statement like "Jost is an AHLer. Period" when he's currently not an AHLer on one of the best teams in the league.

 

[ole ole]

I wasn't comparing Jost to Drouin, just pointing out the ignorance behind a statement like "Jost is an AHLer. Period" when he's currently not an AHLer on one of the best teams in the league.

See that. I just see some fans trying to unload Jost. Problem is Jost just isn't that good .

 

[Patagonia]

See that. I just see some fans trying to unload Jost. Problem is Jost just isn't that good .

Drouin is not that much better. Poor attitude, terrible work ethic, 1 dimensional and overpaid. Jost is a cheap defensive 3C. Same AVs line Drouin would play in a lesser Wing role.

 

[McJedi]

If it's a choice between Jost and Drouin than it Drouin quite easily.

Except Jost makes about $1mm and Drouin is a grossly overpaid bottom six forward with no defensive chops making 5.5mm. GMs actually care about AAV. The salary cap is a real thing GMs must account for. And Drouin is a contract with no value.

Drouin is a bottom six forward on a good team. And at that AAV, he’s pretty much worthless.

 

[ole ole]

Except Jost makes about $1mm and Drouin is a grossly overpaid bottom six forward with no defensive chops making 5.5mm. GMs actually care about AAV. The salary cap is a real thing GMs must account for. And Drouin is a contract with no value.

Drouin is a bottom six forward on a good team. And at that AAV, he’s pretty much worthless.

We are much better off with Drouin over Jost. Drouin is a 2nd line player.
If anyone is a bottom six forward it's Jost.
We are a bad team Jost is a bottom six forward on our team
Hell Jost might not even crack our lineup That makes him useless.
You keep Jost and we'll gladly keep Drouin over him.

 

[tucker3434]

Drouin is a fine 2nd liner which is a good bit more than Jost, who’s just a role player that we hope gets on the scoresheet on occasion. I like Jost and want him to succeed. It’s just not quite there.

Jost wouldn’t be a significant piece in a deal to get Drouin. It would have to be a futures deal from the Avs. If the Habs are trying to win now, we couldn’t be trading partners. Maybe someone like a Timmins plus some other smaller pieces? I’d expect one of the other pieces requested would be a 1st. That just seems steep for a 2nd liner. Newhook would also be a target which I’d imagine would be a deal breaker for Sakic.

 

[montreal]

Drouin is a fine 2nd liner which is a good bit more than Jost, who’s just a role player that we hope gets on the scoresheet on occasion. I like Jost and want him to succeed. It’s just not quite there.

Jost wouldn’t be a significant piece in a deal to get Drouin. It would have to be a futures deal from the Avs. If the Habs are trying to win now, we couldn’t be trading partners. Maybe someone like a Timmins plus some other smaller pieces? I’d expect one of the other pieces requested would be a 1st. That just seems steep for a 2nd liner. Newhook would also be a target which I’d imagine would be a deal breaker for Sakic.

i'd much rather have Timmins then Jost despite our strength being D prospects. But sadly I don't think MB is smart enough to move him, if he rebounds next year but then again I don't have much faith in MB or Drouin.

 

[McJedi]

We are much better off with Drouin over Jost. Drouin is a 2nd line player.
If anyone is a bottom six forward it's Jost.
We are a bad team Jost is a bottom six forward on our team
Hell Jost might not even crack our lineup That makes him useless.
You keep Jost and we'll gladly keep Drouin over him.

Drouin doesn’t even sniff the second line on a good team like the Avs. I don’t see him making our 3rd line above a Donskoi or Compher, both better and more competitive/complete players. We don’t need streaky, poor defensive forwards making way too much in our bottom 3. You spend 5.5mm on good players. Not Drouin. Drouin is a bad contract. Which is exactly why the Habs will get a so little for him in trade.

 

[Brett44]

Drouin doesn’t even sniff the second line on a good team like the Avs. I don’t see him making our 3rd line above a Donskoi or Compher, both better and more competitive/complete players. We don’t need streaky, poor defensive forwards making way too much in our bottom 3. You spend 5.5mm on good players. Not Drouin. Drouin is a bad contract. Which is exactly why the Habs will get a so little for him in trade.

I am a fan of Avs and I remain convinced that Drouin would be a perfect fit on our 2nd line see even the 1st. far from the pressure from Montreal I'm sure Drouin will explode, on the other hand MB will have difficulty in exchanging him because as he gave a lot in Sergachev he will want a very good comeback (1st round +) which few teams will want to give.
1st choice + Beaucage or Zhuravlyov
for Drouin

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Except Jost makes about $1mm and Drouin is a grossly overpaid bottom six forward with no defensive chops making 5.5mm. GMs actually care about AAV. The salary cap is a real thing GMs must account for. And Drouin is a contract with no value.

Drouin is a bottom six forward on a good team. And at that AAV, he’s pretty much worthless.

How many bottom 6 forwards put up 50+ points? You are so out of touch... I am not sure if it’s because if your irrational hate for the Habs and its fans Or because of the previous and absurd Jost + Zadorov +2nd for Danault threaders... Either way, 50+ point players are top6 forwards period.

And dude, no one - and i mean no team - would have any interest in Jost!! LOL

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I am a fan of Avs and I remain convinced that Drouin would be a perfect fit on our 2nd line see even the 1st. far from the pressure from Montreal I'm sure Drouin will explode, on the other hand MB will have difficulty in exchanging him because as he gave a lot in Sergachev he will want a very good comeback (1st round +) which few teams will want to give.
1st choice + Beaucage or Zhuravlyov
for Drouin

I have a gut feeling, a kid like Drouin would really mess up the chemistry in the Avs room. It's the kind of trade that looks good on paper isn't necessarily the best one to make.

Avs are running high right now....it would be incredibly risky to tinker with the team makeup right now.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I don't remember what the Wild fans think of receiving Drouin for Brodin. Let's say he comes in extended, or is extended right away, what would the Habs have to add in order to land Brodin?

What does sign/trade do for value though? It don't give Brodin full value IMO but it helps his value. Kind of like when the Habs traded Patch.

Drouin vs Tatar
2nd vs 2nd
Suzuki (pre Montreal) vs ? ... Poehling or Hillis? Some will flip out on this but they also don't remember that Suzuki was a B+ before his age 19 CHL season

Does Brodin, the Defensive sound but limited offense have the same sign/trade value as Patch? I like Brodin a lot but not sure how high in price I would give the Wild and not sure what their plans are. Think of it this way... If the Wild have plans to keep Brodin, we will know come October cause they will look to extend him before the season starts. But with no contract? That limits his value and it gets less and less the closer to trade deadline

* Does Brodin have the same value as Patch (sign/trade)?
* Does Drouin have the same value as Tatar (pre Montreal)?

 

[Captain Mountain]

Oh lord, more guys that Habs don't need from the Avs for Drouin proposals.

I'm FAR from a Drouin fan, but its ridiculous to think Bergevin would move him for a deal around Jost or Zadorov.

I have a gut feeling, a kid like Drouin would really mess up the chemistry in the Avs room. It's the kind of trade that looks good on paper isn't necessarily the best one to make.

Avs are running high right now....it would be incredibly risky to tinker with the team makeup right now.

Without getting into anything else, the idea that Drouin doesn't try or that he is a problem in the room seems like a strange thought to have. If he was, Bergevin would have never acquired him or would have traded him years ago.

Locker room chemistry and effort are literally the most important things to Bergevin. All of the team mantras while he's been in charge revolve around ideas of effort and fit. Its the reason he traded Subban for Weber, its why he traded Galchenyuk for Domi, its involved in every trade or signing decision he makes.

The shortcomings in Drouin's game are real, but I'm skeptical its a locker room or effort thing. Bergevin and Julien typically don't put up with guys like that. Its far more likely its market pressure, poor team fit or that his game just adapted to the NHL poorly.

 

[JoemAvs]

Oh lord, more guys that Habs don't need from the Avs for Drouin proposals.

I'm FAR from a Drouin fan, but its ridiculous to think Bergevin would move him for a deal around Jost or Zadorov.



Without getting into anything else, the idea that Drouin doesn't try or that he is a problem in the room seems like a strange thought to have. If he was, Bergevin would have never acquired him or would have traded him years ago.

Locker room chemistry and effort are literally the most important things to Bergevin. All of the team mantras while he's been in charge revolve around ideas of effort and fit. Its the reason he traded Subban for Weber, its why he traded Galchenyuk for Domi, its involved in every trade or signing decision he makes.

The shortcomings in Drouin's game are real, but I'm skeptical its a locker room or effort thing. Bergevin and Julien typically don't put up with guys like that. Its far more likely its market pressure, poor team fit or that his game just adapted to the NHL poorly.

He wouldn't but considering how Drouins career has unfolded so far and his contract, the Avs really shouldn't offer anything more than that (if they should make an offer in the first place which is somewhat doubtful).

This is his 2nd team now that he had all the chances in the world but couldn't hack it....
He also lacks every other tool that could make him a very useful player if his offense never really lives up to the hype from his junior days (and he isn't even all that young anymore)...

Only reason the Avs get mentioned is MacKinnon. The thing is that Mac knows Drouin probably better than anyone else. So if anything happens, it will probably because our franchise player is confident he can save his buddies career.

But MacKinnon has done more than fine without Drouin.
There is no giant need to reunite these two especially considering that Bergevin would have a lot of egg on his face if he sells Drouin for his current value (which is pretty low)....

The only thing I could see is a straight swap for Burakovsky if André asks for too much money in the offseason and proves to be an awkward fit with our full lineup available in the playoffs...