Confirmed with Link: Jonathan Dahlen to San Jose for Linus Karlsson (87th overall 2018)

[Star Ocean]

I wonder how much staying in an inferior league hurt Dahlen (if at all). It was a nice idea to get his team promoter but I thought he should have went to the SHL.

Filip forsberg, mikael backlund david pastrnak all came from swe tier 2

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Was more than willing to play in the AHL. Here is what he said today:

2019-nhl-trade-deadline-jonathan-dahlen-vancouver-canucks-jim-benning-san-jose-sharks-barracuda

I have to work on a lot of things in my game. Get speed. I’m really excited to work here with a good coaching staff. Work on every detail in my game, to play in the American League first of all, and be a good player there. We’ll take it from there.

I want to be a good player in the American Hockey League. I haven’t even put my eyes on the NHL yet, I just want to play in the [AHL] first and make a good impression there.

Obviously, you can’t jump over a step, and that’s not what I want to do either because that would just look terribly wrong if I’m in the NHL and not good enough. I’m trying to develop my game here in the [AHL] and become a good player there first before I even think about taking the next step.

 

[4Twenty]

I wonder how much staying in an inferior league hurt Dahlen (if at all). It was a nice idea to get his team promoter but I thought he should have went to the SHL.

I think the idea that the SHL is miles ahead of the Alsvenskan is kinda ridiculous, the bottom end of the SHL is comparable to the top end of the Alsvenskan. I don't see it as a big difference. I think staying over there on the big ice period is the bigger issue.

 

[F A N]

I have a problem with the lack of graduated prospects. Dahlen ended up fat because he doesn't respect the system. Some programs are prestigious... others are a joke. The Canucks player development track record is a joke. It's quick and easy to put the blame on the player. Growth potential and strategy can be studied and harnessed. Obviously, dealing with probabilities as dealing with inperfect humans... but the probability of a graduated Canucks prospect through their system is low. I'm sure the Canucks are working hard and trying... I'm sure they are blaming the players as well. They don't make mistakes, according to them.

I agree that player development has been a problem. I think a lot of that has to do with lack of draft picks and bad drafting. As I mentioned in the Utica thread many times, it takes time for draft picks to hit the AHL level and our best prospects have spent little to no time at the AHL level (which is a result of good drafting). Normally, a drafted pick enters the AHL in their draft + 3 season. For example, Benning's 2016 NHL draft would normally enter their first pro season this season. Of course, Gaudette and Lind are also in their first full pro seasons and neither of them fit into the description of graduated prospect.

 

[I in the Eye]

I agree that player development has been a problem. I think a lot of that has to do with lack of draft picks and bad drafting. As I mentioned in the Utica thread many times, it takes time for draft picks to hit the AHL level and our best prospects have spent little to no time at the AHL level (which is a result of good drafting). Normally, a drafted pick enters the AHL in their draft + 3 season. For example, Benning's 2016 NHL draft would normally enter their first pro season this season. Of course, Gaudette and Lind are also in their first full pro seasons and neither of them fit into the description of graduated prospect.

For sure, I agree. What the development system (AHL) should be doing is churning out 4th line, bottom-pairing, bottom of roster, and temporary fill-in players. The odd player might outperform this expectation (different things hold different players back). Also, the cream will rise to the top with little to no time in the development program... but for the sake of depth, my vote is, as a rule (of course in non-normal circumstance, might make more sense to recycle) hold your prospects and groom them, through a thoughtful, patient program, into NHL players until they are no longer waiver exempt (and a decision needs to be made). Otherwise, it is just often spinning wheels and wasting assets. Dahlen might never be a top 6 player... but the experiment isn't over yet, and time and resources were wasted on him. I find it difficult to believe that his chance to be a roster player or callup alternative in some capacity is so small that it justifies a reset in whom he is being reset for... and if you are always resetting, you're not getting anywhere. To get somewhere, the Canucks need to get all they can, out of all they have.

 

[VanJack]

Obviously the Canucks reached the same conclusion about Dahlen as the the Sens did.

Let's face it, we're not talking about two NHL juggernaut franchises here. If Dahlen wasn't projected to make their lineups any time soon, you really have to scratch your head.

Maybe the kid will find a second-wind with the Sharks. Or possibly both the Sens and Canucks somehow screwed up his development. But not likely. More likely the Sharks weren't that enamored with the kid they drafted in the third round--Linus Karlsson. And thought if nothing else Dahlen represented an upgrade in their prospect pool and was already signed to an entry level deal.

I'm guessing we're talking about a couple of kids who will likely end up with careers in European hockey.

 

[Star Ocean]

Dahlen basically trashed utica coach in swedish media today

 

[Dr Good Vibes]

Dahlen acting like a chef serving up frozen food while saying he’s gotta cook from scratch. “I’ve got to cook food from scratch. I can’t skip a step. Need to do the dirty work. Oh, here’s your frozen pizza.”

 

[hookshott]

If Thomas Gradin likes Karlsson more than Dahlen, then I am 0kay with this trade. Just not sure how much input Gradin had or whether Dim Jim just winged this again!

 

[valkynax]

I'm kinda indifferent at this point, Dahlen didn't trend all that well, but I know nothing of the prospect coming to our way.

Not sure how this will pan out, at least all this costed us originally was Burrows.

 

[Grantham]

There are multiple at faults here.

Cull could be one of them, perhaps he isn’t as good at working and developing young prospects.

Benning and Johnson: They left their AHL team on autopilot. Just so much randomness and hardly any thought to roster construction and composition. They just do media PR but very little actual work.

Dahlen: really not willing to pay the price. A small skilled slowish soft perimeter player. An attitude adjustment will be needed if he wants to ever make it to the big leagues.

 

[zyklone]

Some quotes from a swedish interview (badly translated)

- "I've had great team mates so that's been great. But there has been other things which were not been great. And it's been similar with other younger players in team. I don't know if thats how they want develop players, but it's not something that works on me. It had the opposite effect."

- "All my career I've always loved playing hockey and have gotten energy from it. I've always had a smile on my lips. It's been hard not being allowed to try to play ones game. If a mistake happens you're benchened and get reamted. That probably works on some but not on me.".

About the Barracudas:
- I'm very happy to be here, everything has been great. The coaches are very good.

 

[PhilMick]

Some quotes from a swedish interview (badly translated)

- "I've had great team mates so that's been great. But there has been other things which were not been great. And it's been similar with other younger players in team. I don't know if thats how they want develop players, but it's not something that works on me. It had the opposite effect."

- "All my career I've always loved playing hockey and have gotten energy from it. I've always had a smile on my lips. It's been hard not being allowed to try to play ones game. If a mistake happens you're benchened and get reamted. That probably works on some but not on me.".

About the Barracudas:
- I'm very happy to be here, everything has been great. The coaches are very good.

Sounds like someone needs to come play CHL!

 

[timw33]

There are multiple at faults here.

Cull could be one of them, perhaps he isn’t as good at working and developing young prospects.

Benning and Johnson: They left their AHL team on autopilot. Just so much randomness and hardly any thought to roster construction and composition. They just do media PR but very little actual work.

Dahlen: really not willing to pay the price. A small skilled slowish soft perimeter player. An attitude adjustment will be needed if he wants to ever make it to the big leagues.

Yep, I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle ground, but seeing as how so many prospects have fallen flat on their faces it's a bit concerning. That just might mean we're not as good at drafting in the first place though.

 

[MS]

Yep, I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle ground, but seeing as how so many prospects have fallen flat on their faces it's a bit concerning. That just might mean we're not as good at drafting in the first place though.

There is no scenario with any coach or any team where Lind and Gadjovich would have been solid contributors in the AHL this year. They simply cannot skate well enough at this level to be anything more than fringe players at this point. It’s actually amazing how similar as a player Lind is to PTO Reid Gardiner (who also once scored 90 points in the WHL).

Dahlen the coaches had to be hard on. When you’re allergic to contact and play your entire fans on the perimeter, you’re going to hear about it. Maybe he could have had a few more points with better linemates at ES at times but that would have changed nothing about the things limiting him from moving up levels.

 

[mathonwy]

I'm kinda indifferent at this point, Dahlen didn't trend all that well, but I know nothing of the prospect coming to our way.

Not sure how this will pan out, at least all this costed us originally was Burrows.

This here statement makes me an incredibly sad panda.

Haven’t you asked yourself why every single member of the 2011 core who has left this team left on bad terms as well as performing at a below standard level?

“All this costed us was Burrows”

Geezes effin Christ.

This organization took and took from the 2011 core until they were ground into paste and then subsequently discarded for a prospect who 2 years later saw what an absolute crap show of an organization the Canucks are and demanded a trade.

This effing organizations incompetence has devalued the eff out of every single competent player we had/have and replaced them with a whole lot of trash.

Pathetic excuse for a company.

 

[bandwagonesque]

This here statement makes me an incredibly sad panda.

Haven’t you asked yourself why every single member of the 2011 core who has left this team left on bad terms as well as performing at a below standard level?

“All this costed us was Burrows”

Geezes effin Christ.

This organization took and took from the 2011 core until they were ground into paste and then subsequently discarded for a prospect who 2 years later saw what an absolute crap show of an organization the Canucks are and demanded a trade.

This effing organizations incompetence has devalued the eff out of every single competent player we had/have and replaced them with a whole lot of trash.

Pathetic excuse for a company.

Burrows didn't leave the team on bad terms. As for others, Chris Higgins was demoted because he couldn't play anymore. Jannik Hansen didn't leave the team on bad terms. Christian Erhoff didn't leave on bad terms, was open to negotiating with the team, and would likely have resigned if the Canucks offered him a competitive contract. Samuelsson signed elsewhere and said nothing to indicate he was unhappy with the team. Same with Sami Salo. The Sedins retired. What you're saying is totally incorrect.

 

[ZEBROA]

A good coach knows how to deal with different types if players. The same solution wont work on all players.

 

[F A N]

Was more than willing to play in the AHL. Here is what he said today:

2019-nhl-trade-deadline-jonathan-dahlen-vancouver-canucks-jim-benning-san-jose-sharks-barracuda

I have to work on a lot of things in my game. Get speed. I’m really excited to work here with a good coaching staff. Work on every detail in my game, to play in the American League first of all, and be a good player there. We’ll take it from there.

I want to be a good player in the American Hockey League. I haven’t even put my eyes on the NHL yet, I just want to play in the [AHL] first and make a good impression there.

Obviously, you can’t jump over a step, and that’s not what I want to do either because that would just look terribly wrong if I’m in the NHL and not good enough. I’m trying to develop my game here in the [AHL] and become a good player there first before I even think about taking the next step.

Thanks for the link. I think it would be best to stay patient and have Karlsson play in the SHL first.

 

[mathonwy]

Burrows didn't leave the team on bad terms. As for others, Chris Higgins was demoted because he couldn't play anymore. Jannik Hansen didn't leave the team on bad terms. Christian Erhoff didn't leave on bad terms, was open to negotiating with the team, and would likely have resigned if the Canucks offered him a competitive contract. Samuelsson signed elsewhere and said nothing to indicate he was unhappy with the team. Same with Sami Salo. The Sedins retired. What you're saying is totally incorrect.

• Christian Erhoff was an astute non-extension by MG
• Mikael Samuelsson (along with Marco Sturm) was an astute trade to Florida for David Booth and Steve Reinprecht by MG
• Sami Salo was an astute non-extension by MG
• Alex Burrows had a terrible season in 13-14 due to his ankle injury and a personality clash with Torts who in his exit interview advocated to Linden to trade him. They didn't, Torts was fired and Alex had a bounce back year in 14-15 with 33pts playing with real hockey players (Higgins and Bonino). 15-16 rolled around, Jimbo's rebuild turned the team into absolute crap and all of our veterans except for Sedins, Hansen, Edler and Tanev started playing listless unmotivated hockey. 16-17 - Burr was playing the same listless unmotivated hockey until they put him full time with Bo and Bae which caused an uptick in his play and ultimately resulted in raising his value enough to facilitate a trade to Ottawa for Dahlen. An uninjured hockey player playing listless unmotivated hockey is the sign of an unhappy player (see Vrbata).
• Chris Higgins had a great season in 13-14 due to a compatible personality with Torts. 14-15 - Higgins had a good season because he was playing with real hockey players (Higgins and Bonino). 15-16 - Higgins ran out of effs to give playing on a crap team for a crap coach, played listless unmotivated hockey, looked terrible, got demoted to Utica and ultimately retired.
• Kevin Bieksa had a great season in 13-14 due to a compatible personality with Torts. 14-15 - Bieksa got paired with Sbisa, self-destructed and played himself off the team
• Dan Hamhuis has been the most reliable defender for us in this decade until he wasn't after the Jimbo rebuild of 15-16. 14-15 - Hammer was paired with Weber and propped Weber up so well that it resulted in a 2 year extension for Weber. 15-16 - Hammer's play dropped significantly and mirrored Burr's and Higgin's listless and unmotivated play. Hammer's significant drop in play had two very unfortunate outcomes. Outcome 1 was Weber was no longer being propped up and together with Bartkowski, captained our 26 point stealth tank to the bottom of the league. Outcome 2 was Hammer getting that puck in the face which was a direct result of Hammer losing the puck in front of his goalie. Something that never would have happened if he had been on his game. And of course, we end the sad story of Hammer with the absolutely NOTHING that happened at the 15-16 TDL and the subsequent letting him walk for free. Hammer's value had dropped so low that Dallas went with Russell instead of him. That's some serious asset devaluation I tell you what.
• Hansen is a honey badger and honey badgers don't give an eff about anything. Mad props to Hansen for continuing to maintain a high level of play despite the sad state of the team. Unfortunately for Hansen's value, he had the Canucks loser stink on him and he ran into injury problems in 17-18 and was subsequently flipped for a TBD Goldobin.
• The Sedins left money on the table when they retired because the 16-17 season showed that they were MORE THAN CAPABLE of playing 2nd line minutes. Hockey players don't leave money on the table nor do they retire for the hell of it. Hank, the heart and soul of this team since he became captain in 2010 has shown on countless of occasions of his dedication and willingness to bleed for this team but, together with his brother, decides to retire because.... why? Because the current team is an absolute monstrosity and the idea it is rebuilding in any way shape or form is a laughable one? Yep. That's the explanation I'm going with until someone convinces me differently.

The above observations in their totality are why I assert that I am correct and you are incorrect.

Edit

Holy crap I forgot Kesler and Luongo.

What a crap show this organization has been over the last 8 years.

Canucks would make a very interesting case study in organizational dysfunction.

 

[VanJack]

If Goldy couldn't make the Sharks as a regular, then Dahlen has no hope.

 

[Horse McHindu]

This here statement makes me an incredibly sad panda.

Haven’t you asked yourself why every single member of the 2011 core who has left this team left on bad terms as well as performing at a below standard level?

“All this costed us was Burrows”

Geezes effin Christ.

This organization took and took from the 2011 core until they were ground into paste and then subsequently discarded for a prospect who 2 years later saw what an absolute crap show of an organization the Canucks are and demanded a trade.

This effing organizations incompetence has devalued the eff out of every single competent player we had/have and replaced them with a whole lot of trash.

Pathetic excuse for a company.

#TheSkyIsFalling

In all seriousness, why not give up the Canucks for a few years and follow a different sport if this management group gives you so much grief? Perhaps you will feel better.

 

[Horse McHindu]

• Christian Erhoff was an astute non-extension by MG
• Mikael Samuelsson (along with Marco Sturm) was an astute trade to Florida for David Booth and Steve Reinprecht by MG
• Sami Salo was an astute non-extension by MG
• Alex Burrows had a terrible season in 13-14 due to his ankle injury and a personality clash with Torts who in his exit interview advocated to Linden to trade him. They didn't, Torts was fired and Alex had a bounce back year in 14-15 with 33pts playing with real hockey players (Higgins and Bonino). 15-16 rolled around, Jimbo's rebuild turned the team into absolute crap and all of our veterans except for Sedins, Hansen, Edler and Tanev started playing listless unmotivated hockey. 16-17 - Burr was playing the same listless unmotivated hockey until they put him full time with Bo and Bae which caused an uptick in his play and ultimately resulted in raising his value enough to facilitate a trade to Ottawa for Dahlen. An uninjured hockey player playing listless unmotivated hockey is the sign of an unhappy player (see Vrbata).
• Chris Higgins had a great season in 13-14 due to a compatible personality with Torts. 14-15 - Higgins had a good season because he was playing with real hockey players (Higgins and Bonino). 15-16 - Higgins ran out of effs to give playing on a crap team for a crap coach, played listless unmotivated hockey, looked terrible, got demoted to Utica and ultimately retired.
• Kevin Bieksa had a great season in 13-14 due to a compatible personality with Torts. 14-15 - Bieksa got paired with Sbisa, self-destructed and played himself off the team
• Dan Hamhuis has been the most reliable defender for us in this decade until he wasn't after the Jimbo rebuild of 15-16. 14-15 - Hammer was paired with Weber and propped Weber up so well that it resulted in a 2 year extension for Weber. 15-16 - Hammer's play dropped significantly and mirrored Burr's and Higgin's listless and unmotivated play. Hammer's significant drop in play had two very unfortunate outcomes. Outcome 1 was Weber was no longer being propped up and together with Bartkowski, captained our 26 point stealth tank to the bottom of the league. Outcome 2 was Hammer getting that puck in the face which was a direct result of Hammer losing the puck in front of his goalie. Something that never would have happened if he had been on his game. And of course, we end the sad story of Hammer with the absolutely NOTHING that happened at the 15-16 TDL and the subsequent letting him walk for free. Hammer's value had dropped so low that Dallas went with Russell instead of him. That's some serious asset devaluation I tell you what.
• Hansen is a honey badger and honey badgers don't give an eff about anything. Mad props to Hansen for continuing to maintain a high level of play despite the sad state of the team. Unfortunately for Hansen's value, he had the Canucks loser stink on him and he ran into injury problems in 17-18 and was subsequently flipped for a TBD Goldobin.
• The Sedins left money on the table when they retired because the 16-17 season showed that they were MORE THAN CAPABLE of playing 2nd line minutes. Hockey players don't leave money on the table nor do they retire for the hell of it. Hank, the heart and soul of this team since he became captain in 2010 has shown on countless of occasions of his dedication and willingness to bleed for this team but, together with his brother, decides to retire because.... why? Because the current team is an absolute monstrosity and the idea it is rebuilding in any way shape or form is a laughable one? Yep. That's the explanation I'm going with until someone convinces me differently.

The above observations in their totality are why I assert that I am correct and you are incorrect.

Except he completely owned you in the debate.

 

[joelCAMEL]

A good coach knows how to deal with different types if players. The same solution wont work on all players.

In business, a good manager will also do the same. Some workers need constant supervision and training, some just need to be told what is expected of them. Travis Green does this with his hockey players and posters cry foul.

 

[joelCAMEL]

Some quotes from a swedish interview (badly translated)

- "I've had great team mates so that's been great. But there has been other things which were not been great. And it's been similar with other younger players in team. I don't know if thats how they want develop players, but it's not something that works on me. It had the opposite effect."

- "All my career I've always loved playing hockey and have gotten energy from it. I've always had a smile on my lips. It's been hard not being allowed to try to play ones game. If a mistake happens you're benchened and get reamted. That probably works on some but not on me.".

About the Barracudas:
- I'm very happy to be here, everything has been great. The coaches are very good.

Colton Saucerman was interviewed on Moj & Taylor's TSN show last month and was asked about Trent Cull, which I will paraphrase:

"...You always know where you stand. He is such a vocal and very intense guy. If you haven't played for a guy like this before, it can be intimidating but he is a winner..."

It appears Dahlen was intimidated for the second time in his life, by the same coach and still did not like it. The first time, he bailed back to Sweden.