Jonathan Bernier - Player Discussion 2016

[eddieO]

His point is that because Trevor Kidd turned out to be a dud at 11th overall, so will Bernier, without taking into account how their careers diverged post-draft.

If you throw in Hasek Price, Thomas as comparison points, then you should throw in Trevor Kidd, a guy with "pedigree" and "11th overall" who also had a .922 season before the wheels fall off.

However, Kidd was 6'2 so maybe it's not a fair comparison.

 

[BayStreetBully]

If you throw in Hasek Price, Thomas as comparison points, then you should throw in Trevor Kidd, a guy with "pedigree" and "11th overall" who also had a .922 season before the wheels fall off.

However, Kidd was 6'2 so maybe it's not a fair comparison.

And Kidd had a bunch of sub-par seasons both before and after that one good season.

Yeah, Bernier could turn out to be Hasek, Kidd, or anyone in between. How about we wait and find out. If you're a practical man, what have you got to lose?

 

[eddieO]

Kind of missing the point there, deepz. People are saying that there has never been any pressure this season, but that performance matters.

I'm disappointed to see both you and MikeBabchuk come across as you have since the Reimer trade. We disagreed a lot, but I generally found you to be level-headed and capable of articulating good points as well as accepting points that went against your position. This act is beneath you both.

Finally, the whole idea about meaningless games seem only to pop up as a narrative to dismiss performance from people who have shown a bias on the subject.

The situation has gone from "throwaway season but stable future" to "throwaway season with future on the line" for Bernier, yet somehow there is no longer any pressure. As so often on this topic, that's very illogical.

You seem to judge my posts with a moral compass, especially when I disagree with you.

BTW I was called out by a poster for not being involved in this thread because for a period, Bernier is posting good numbers. Is that beneath anyone or is it just because Babchuk and I seem to be critical of Bernier over the past years?

I'll put this aside as you being upset or having a bad day, I think highly of you as a poster, even though we disagree on Bernier's potential.

 

[TMLegend]

If you throw in Hasek Price, Thomas as comparison points, then you should throw in Trevor Kidd, a guy with "pedigree" and "11th overall" who also had a .922 season before the wheels fall off.

However, Kidd was 6'2 so maybe it's not a fair comparison.

What is your issue with size? No honestly, I'm legitimately asking. I'm gonna use a little Reimer logic here. As long as he stops pucks, why does it matter if he's 5'10 or 6'7?

 

[eddieO]

And Kidd had a bunch of sub-par seasons both before and after that one good season.

Yeah, Bernier could turn out to be Hasek, Kidd, or anyone in between. How about we wait and find out. If you're a practical man, what have you got to lose?

Nothing, you're right. I hope to see Bernier start next season.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Kind of missing the point there, deepz. People are saying that there has never been any pressure this season, but that performance matters.

I'm disappointed to see both you and MikeBabchuk come across as you have since the Reimer trade. We disagreed a lot, but I generally found you to be level-headed and capable of articulating good points as well as accepting points that went against your position. This act is beneath you both.

Finally, the whole idea about meaningless games seem only to pop up as a narrative to dismiss performance from people who have shown a bias on the subject.

The situation has gone from "throwaway season but stable future" to "throwaway season with future on the line" for Bernier, yet somehow there is no longer any pressure. As so often on this topic, that's very illogical.



He's looked real good, the closest to that first year that we've seen from him. Hopefully for his sake it can help him rescue a career, even though I'm still not very high on the idea of him being the answer for us.

I'm not either but I still think it's possible

 

[Nithoniniel]

You seem to judge my posts with a moral compass, especially when I disagree with you.

BTW I was called out by a poster for not being involved in this thread because for a period, Bernier is posting good numbers. Is that beneath anyone or is it just because Babchuk and I seem to be critical of Bernier over the past years?

I'll put this aside as you being upset or having a bad day, I think highly of you as a poster, even though we disagree on Bernier's potential.

I'm a bit sick but otherwise fine.

I know you got called out. Just saying that you and Mike have stooped to that level since the trade, and it surprised me.

Do we really disagree that much nowadays? I don't believe it reasonable that Bernier can be a starter anymore, and you don't either.

 

[eddieO]

I'm a bit sick but otherwise fine.

I know you got called out. Just saying that you and Mike have stooped to that level since the trade, and it surprised me.

Do we really disagree that much nowadays? I don't believe it reasonable that Bernier can be a starter anymore, and you don't either.

Not really. And I'm with you on Morgan Rielly. So life's good.

Feel better man!

 

[Kiwi]

Bernier deserves a chance next season he is under contract and is arguably as good as any of the available UFAs
I have no problem with us going out and getting a young guy with starters potential in a season or 2
What I don't want to see us do is make a move and give up valuable assets to get a goalie who could just as easily suck as succeed (Andersen) we have been down that road and I don't like where it leads

 

[marquee]

its best not to engage deepz or babchuk in goaltending discussions. Both are still dealing withe trauma of the reimer move. they are most likely also holing onto hope he resigns smh.

They first predicted he would be out the league at this point. Next it was reimer getting extended and the other is dealt. Im assuming they both now believe sparks is the future.

trolls.

 

[Paradoc]

Apparently it means a lot now when Bernier is playing decently in meaningless games. The tumbleweed prop artists are making Bernier seem like he's had a resurgence, when in reality, there's absolutely no pressure on him. Remember when he couldn't string a win together and folded like a cheap tent every time they tried to start him? He had to be sent down to the AHL to "fix his mind".

Let me cut through the hypocrisy that is rife with the Bernier Prop Artists:

If Bernier is playing horrible -- > season doesn't matter.

If Bernier is playing well -- > season matters! We should look at an extension.

Never change.

Your missing my point. I'm saying Bernier never had any sort of pressure to make it to the playoffs, when the expectation were low to begin with. Therefore, using the "no pressure" argument to demise Bernier performance right now is silly. He had no pressure at beginning of the season and none of it right now. This season is pretty much an evaluation season for every leafs player. All that matters right now is whether Bernier is performing well enough to be a leaf next year or if we need a replacement. So far his 2016 numbers are great, so he's trending upward, but don't try to demise Bernier's performance just because some fans suggested an extension or because of no pressure.

 

[eddieO]

its best not to engage deepz or babchuk in goaltending discussions. Both are still dealing withe trauma of the reimer move. they are most likely also holing onto hope he resigns smh.

They first predicted he would be out the league at this point. Next it was reimer getting extended and the other is dealt. Im assuming they both now believe sparks is the future.

trolls.

I thought Reimer was moved for good reason. And I don't think he signs with us.

I don't believe Sparks is the future. And I am fine with Bernier starting next season.

 

[socratic]

Has there been any mentioning of why Sparks and Bernier are alternating starts right now? Is that kind of just the way it's shaped up, or is it by design?

Is it likely that Bernier starts the next two games (Buffalo and Detroit)?

 

[A1LeafNation]

Im starting to think Bernier can play 55+ games and lead the Leafs to the playoffs. I dont know if he can do that next year though. Id be willing to give him a look until the deadline.

I never thought he could bring up his stats to respectable numbers for the year after the start he had. He worked hard to bring that up since his conditioning stint:

11-12-2
0.913 SV%
2.70 GAA

Sparks is not a back-up goalie yet, he is a call up. We need a 30+ game back-up next year if not a starter.

 

[Mad Brills*]

Im starting to think Bernier can play 55+ games and lead the Leafs to the playoffs. I dont know if he can do that next year though. Id be willing to give him a look until the deadline.

I never thought he could bring up his stats to respectable numbers for the year after the start he had. He worked hard to bring that up since his conditioning stint:

11-12-2
0.913 SV%
2.70 GAA

Sparks is not a back-up goalie yet, he is a call up. We need a 30+ game back-up next year if not a starter.

Only reason why the leafs are even this close to the bottom of the standings is that he was brutal in october and november.

 

[MikeBabchuk]

Bernier deserves a chance next season he is under contract and is arguably as good as any of the available UFAs
I have no problem with us going out and getting a young guy with starters potential in a season or 2
What I don't want to see us do is make a move and give up valuable assets to get a goalie who could just as easily suck as succeed (Andersen) we have been down that road and I don't like where it leads

He doesn't deserve a chance but he will most likely get one for practical reasons.

 

[Kiwi]

He doesn't deserve a chance but he will most likely get one for practical reasons.

Excellent we agree then

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

Has there been any mentioning of why Sparks and Bernier are alternating starts right now? Is that kind of just the way it's shaped up, or is it by design?

Is it likely that Bernier starts the next two games (Buffalo and Detroit)?

They want an extended look at Sparks.....or maybe Bernier is playing too well lol.

 

[Nithoniniel]

He doesn't deserve a chance but he will most likely get one for practical reasons.

Yeah. Practical reasons are the only thing that matters. Right now there's no alternatives. Not in the franchise, not on the market.

Well of course there are alternatives, but as I see it you have stop gaps and you have potential solutions. Replacing Bernier so we can have a slightly better stop gap feels pretty far down the priority list.

We really, really need to address the fact that we only have two long shots for that solution though. Three, with the new guy.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Hopefully he can be the guy here. Skeptical but hopeful


https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/se...eling-good-excited-return-192623258--nhl.html

"I never really went through this pain I guess," a refreshed-looking Bernier said Friday after practice. "It was very painful. You come to the rink and you don't feel (like) yourself. But I worked really hard to come out of it. I didn't want to be the guy that just tosses in the towel and doesn't work at it.

"I really (wanted) to prove to myself that I can come back from things like that. It definitely makes you a stronger player and stronger person that's for sure."

He managed to weather that early-season storm and has a respectable .922 save percentage since the start of January. He has a 4-2-0 record in his last six starts along with a .952 save percentage.

"Obviously he's played at a high level this last while," Babcock said. "He knows that. We know that. (He) feels good about himself, practises like that and that helps your team win."

Bernier says that since the all-star break in late January, he has been able to find a level of consistency that was missing earlier in the season.

"I always believed I can be the guy here," said Bernier. "Even sitting in the room and seeing those young guys I think it gives you a little jump in your game because you're seeing these kids, they're working hard, they have a lot of talent and you can see what can be done in the near future."

 

[81Reasons]

Your missing my point. I'm saying Bernier never had any sort of pressure to make it to the playoffs, when the expectation were low to begin with. Therefore, using the "no pressure" argument to demise Bernier performance right now is silly. He had no pressure at beginning of the season and none of it right now. This season is pretty much an evaluation season for every leafs player. All that matters right now is whether Bernier is performing well enough to be a leaf next year or if we need a replacement. So far his 2016 numbers are great, so he's trending upward, but don't try to demise Bernier's performance just because some fans suggested an extension or because of no pressure.

He's playing better now and not the sole reason why the Leafs are losing games. But as someone else mentioned, the fact that he had a conditioning stint for his "mind" in my opinion sealed his fate in Babcocks mind.

I personally was never a fan and felt his supporters ignored his flaws, so I am happy we can move on.

 

[Kiwi]

He's playing better now and not the sole reason why the Leafs are losing games. But as someone else mentioned, the fact that he had a conditioning stint for his "mind" in my opinion sealed his fate in Babcocks mind.

I personally was never a fan and felt his supporters ignored his flaws, so I am happy we can move on.

Fair enough
Who is the solution and what do you think they will cost?

 

[cookie]

He's playing better now and not the sole reason why the Leafs are losing games. But as someone else mentioned, the fact that he had a conditioning stint for his "mind" in my opinion sealed his fate in Babcocks mind.

I personally was never a fan and felt his supporters ignored his flaws, so I am happy we can move on.

Didn't MA Fleury have a highly publicized mental issue with goaltending? How many more goalies are there dealing with similar issues? I agree that Bernier basically fell off the face of the earth, but he is like Kadri--a serviceable stop-gap. The only issue is finding a legitimate 1G.

 

[saltming]

Didn't MA Fleury have a highly publicized mental issue with goaltending? How many more goalies are there dealing with similar issues? I agree that Bernier basically fell off the face of the earth, but he is like Kadri--a serviceable stop-gap. The only issue is finding a legitimate 1G.

Imo it is a physiological/psychological connection. I feel that his groin injury left him nervous (psychological) and he was not pushing himself in games.
His lateral movement since being sent down has only gotten better game after game.
Personally, and probably in the minority, I'm willing to give him the year and see what there is. If he performs as he has been since the conditioning stint I would extend him for another couple years. We don't have anyone in the system better atm.
If over those years he is a .920 goalie we keep him. If not, we dump him.

 

[81Reasons]

Fair enough
Who is the solution and what do you think they will cost?

I don't know that there is one. If the Leafs can sign a quality guy (cheap) to back up Bernier next season it's the best option. Let him play out the season, maybe if he plays well he could become a trade piece.

Look at the goalie market this year, if the trade deadline were a couple of weeks later the Leafs could've had several teams bidding for Reimer (Pitts, NYI, CHI). If Bernie plays well and the right sequence of events happen it could work out OK.

I don't think the Leafs will want to resign him and I don't think he will want to sign here even if he does rebound and play well for a full season. I know he has a cup, but I think he will want to play for a competitive team and the Leafs are too far out. Playing for them will hurt his earning potential. He needs (is best suited for) a low pressure market.