Jonathan Bernier - And right back into the starting role

[CanadasTeam]

Seriously though - why won't management deal with this once and for all. Just designate the starter and designate the backup. If they don't want to do that, then move one or both of them out. This is causing a lot of stress and uncertainty for both of these guys, and has been for years. It's too long. There's no doubt that it's affecting their game. If they win, they think, "great, I won- but am I playing next game?". If they lose, they think "oh well, at least I'll be backup". This removes a level of competition from their heads. If one of them is the starter, then they'll play like one. But if they don't know if they're #1 or #2, then - they'll play like that. If they win, ok, if not, ok as well - they'll drop to #2. They NEED to nkow where they're at so they can play like it. They're both good guys, at least give them the decency to officially designate them. Deal with it, make the decisions, and stamp it.

I honestly believe they made that decision a long time ago but since Bernier did not do too well at the start they temporarily replaced him with Reimer/Sparks.

Bernier got sent down for conditioning stint (it's what it really was: conditioning stint). Now, do you honestly believe they would've done the same if it was Reimer who struggled? I seriously doubt it -- they are perfectly content to have Reimer at the end of the bench holding a clipboard (as originally planned).

 

[Ciao]

I don't need to wait ten games: I like what I saw from Bernier last night.

I wouldn't have waited ten games to say so if I didn't either.

Looks like his confidence was back last night, especially in the third.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Reimer + Sparks combo is much better. It's unfortunate both are injured. There's no way Bernier wins this game vs the Blues. At least 4 are going in tonight. The Leafs are going to have to score 5/6 goals a game in order to win with Bernier in net.

Good call.

 

[hfman]

if Babcock publicly said that Bernier was going to play 60+ games this year, then yes, he desginated his starting goalie.

But then Bernier played poorly, so he switched it. What else was he to do? As a coach you have to win. So Babcock reversed his decision and gave Riemer all the starts.

But this is the problem I was talking about. Who's the starter? Neither of them know.

If Bernier was the starter, then you stick with him, even through his slump. But Babcock didn't. He switched it AGAIN - just alike the two previous coaches kept doing. James and Jonathan have no clue what their positions are. It's like telling Kessel that he's a winger one night, then a defenseman the next. How will that work out? That's right, not great.

Choose one guy as the starter. Let him lose 15 in a row. Deal with it. Let them know their positions. It's not like this year matters anyways. At least each guy knows their positions. If they don't know their positions then how can they maintain and master it? A starting goalie has a starting goalie mentality, and a backup has a backup mentality. How can one of these guys do so well for 20 or 30 games, but still be susceptible to being delegated to a backup role once they hit a slump? That's ridiculous. If Reimer plays a good 30 or 40 games in a row, but hits a 6-game slump - what happens, he all of a sudden becomes the backup guy? Well YES, that's they way it' been in Toronto. If they don't know what they are, then that's where the failure is coming in. And that's been the problem here for what, 4 or 5 years now?

 

[MikeBabchuk]

MISSING:

Hundreds of Bernier haters. If found, please return to the forums.



Jokes aside - good job yet again by Jonathan. Great to see that the slump is behind him. We all knew he was coming out of it eventually. All players go through it. He's starting up the "who's the #1 goalie" controversy yet again.

To add to that, the Leafs are starting to turn a corner here I feel. This year is still a writeoff, but we can see that there's finally something positive happening. After years and years of false starts - could this finally be the turning point?

We've heard that story before. First thing: Bernier has a .909 save percentage since the year 2014 started, so slump aside, let's keep things real.

Second: the exact opposite conversation was happening two games ago. We have to refrain from making proclamations and rather just see how things play out. Bernier is very hot and cold and the next step in his progress is to avoid a really ugly game every 3-5 games (6 goals on 15 shots) because even though every goalie loses games, they don't alternate spectacular games with brain-dead performances. Let's see if he can build a new foundation or whether the long-standing trend continues.

 

[Le Cobra]

Congrats to Bernier, he proved me wrong. I'm glad. It's time to make the playoffs!

 

[MikeBabchuk]

if Babcock publicly said that Bernier was going to play 60+ games this year, then yes, he desginated his starting goalie.

But then Bernier played poorly, so he switched it. What else was he to do? As a coach you have to win. So Babcock reversed his decision and gave Riemer all the starts.

But this is the problem I was talking about. Who's the starter? Neither of them know.

If Bernier was the starter, then you stick with him, even through his slump. But Babcock didn't. He switched it AGAIN - just alike the two previous coaches kept doing. James and Jonathan have no clue what their positions are. It's like telling Kessel that he's a winger one night, then a defenseman the next. How will that work out? That's right, not great.

Choose one guy as the starter. Let him lose 15 in a row. Deal with it. Let them know their positions. It's not like this year matters anyways. At least each guy knows their positions. If they don't know their positions then how can they maintain and master it? A starting goalie has a starting goalie mentality, and a backup has a backup mentality. How can one of these guys do so well for 20 or 30 games, but still be susceptible to being delegated to a backup role once they hit a slump? That's ridiculous. If Reimer plays a good 30 or 40 games in a row, but hits a 6-game slump - what happens, he all of a sudden becomes the backup guy? Well YES, that's they way it' been in Toronto. If they don't know what they are, then that's where the failure is coming in. And that's been the problem here for what, 4 or 5 years now?

It's not so black and white. Most engaged fans knew that coming into the season, Bernier had been in poor form for a while and although he was paid to be the starter, he had a lot to prove.

Babcock backed him as the outright starter. I'm not sure what his motivation was for that, but just because a player is "supposed" to fill a role doesn't mean that's set in stone. What would the point of a coach be if he didn't adjust or evaluate? Things look clear on paper but they turn out different on the ice.

Then as things play out on the ice, what is put to paper changes as well.

Bernier has played well enough lately that Babcock will surely not dump him in favour of Sparks again, barring another slump into oblivion. He's secure in the NHL for the foreseeable future, but as we've seen, you never know what Bernier will bring on any given night.

 

[MikeBabchuk]

Congrats to Bernier, he proved me wrong. I'm glad. It's time to make the playoffs!

Quite right.

While you certainly got some stick for your blowout loss prediction, the thing is we just never know whether Bern-yay or Bern-boo is going to show up on any given night.

I hope he defies the odds and bucks his long-standing trend of losing focus every couple games and having things snowball into a total stinker.

We aren't going to win every game, but blatant gaffes and outright blowouts should be far more scarce than they are with Bernier, and this dates back even to his career year. Can this change? I doubt it, but he is free to prove me wrong and defy the confines of his noted shortcomings.

We can hope.

 

[airbus220]

if Babcock publicly said that Bernier was going to play 60+ games this year, then yes, he desginated his starting goalie.

But then Bernier played poorly, so he switched it. What else was he to do? As a coach you have to win. So Babcock reversed his decision and gave Riemer all the starts.

But this is the problem I was talking about. Who's the starter? Neither of them know.

If Bernier was the starter, then you stick with him, even through his slump. But Babcock didn't. He switched it AGAIN - just alike the two previous coaches kept doing. James and Jonathan have no clue what their positions are. It's like telling Kessel that he's a winger one night, then a defenseman the next. How will that work out? That's right, not great.

Choose one guy as the starter. Let him lose 15 in a row. Deal with it. Let them know their positions. It's not like this year matters anyways. At least each guy knows their positions. If they don't know their positions then how can they maintain and master it? A starting goalie has a starting goalie mentality, and a backup has a backup mentality. How can one of these guys do so well for 20 or 30 games, but still be susceptible to being delegated to a backup role once they hit a slump? That's ridiculous. If Reimer plays a good 30 or 40 games in a row, but hits a 6-game slump - what happens, he all of a sudden becomes the backup guy? Well YES, that's they way it' been in Toronto. If they don't know what they are, then that's where the failure is coming in. And that's been the problem here for what, 4 or 5 years now?

A big chunk of what happened is on Babcock alone. Announcing Bernier will play 60 games was foolish, a 53 year old coach should know better. Reimer had by far better stats in preseason, giving Bernier the first 2 games he didn't earned was foolish. Pulling Bernier after the 1st period was fool's textbook so Reimer had to play b2b which most teams avoid and Babcock in Detroit avoided either. You could recognize that it hurt Reimer too. The next fool's textbook was playing Bernier b2b, foolish if you were surprised that Bernier got injured. Luckily Reimer could perform good then but playing 3 games in 4 nights in his first month can't be good. Then there was Bernier's famous game in NY after he didn't play for 15 days, you should expect not a good game after injury, but Babcock was surprised and didn't play him for another 13 days and let him get cold even more. Then Reimer had to play 3 games in 4 nights again, fool's textbook again, but not enough, Reimer got no rest and had to show up in practice and the damage was done. Bravo Babcock, you ruined 2 goalies in the first 2 months, you are even better than fool's textbook. After those 13 days Bernier must have been ice cold, no wonder he had another bad game, you just had to forget about it, but Babcock didn't forget. Then Bernier was a Marlies, it would have been much better to use that opportunity earlier instead of playing him cold in NY and against the Caps. There is experience how long groin injuries need to heal, playing Reimer after 10 days again couldn't be good, which fool was responsible for that. To say it short, most if not all of this could have been avoided just with managing the starts better and give the goalies more rest, so simple.

 

[airbus220]

Congrats to Bernier, he proved me wrong. I'm glad. It's time to make the playoffs!

Yes, congrats to Bernier, we all should be glad, but nobody could expect this, even the Bernier fan club.

 

[Le Cobra]

A big chunk of what happened is on Babcock alone. Announcing Bernier will play 60 games was foolish, a 53 year old coach should know better. Reimer had by far better stats in preseason, giving Bernier the first 2 games he didn't earned was foolish. Pulling Bernier after the 1st period was fool's textbook so Reimer had to play b2b which most teams avoid and Babcock in Detroit avoided either. You could recognize that it hurt Reimer too. The next fool's textbook was playing Bernier b2b, foolish if you were surprised that Bernier got injured. Luckily Reimer could perform good then but playing 3 games in 4 nights in his first month can't be good. Then there was Bernier's famous game in NY after he didn't play for 15 days, you should expect not a good game after injury, but Babcock was surprised and didn't play him for another 13 days and let him get cold even more. Then Reimer had to play 3 games in 4 nights again, fool's textbook again, but not enough, Reimer got no rest and had to show up in practice and the damage was done. Bravo Babcock, you ruined 2 goalies in the first 2 months, you are even better than fool's textbook. After those 13 days Bernier must have been ice cold, no wonder he had another bad game, you just had to forget about it, but Babcock didn't forget. Then Bernier was a Marlies, it would have been much better to use that opportunity earlier instead of playing him cold in NY and against the Caps. There is experience how long groin injuries need to heal, playing Reimer after 10 days again couldn't be good, which fool was responsible for that. To say it short, most if not all of this could have been avoided just with managing the starts better and give the goalies more rest, so simple.

interesting. Babcock seems to have learned from his mistakes. At the same time, both Reimer and Bernier should take responsibility. Bernier for his poor play at the start of the season and Reimer for asking for a break on those b2bs.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Congrats to Bernier, he proved me wrong. I'm glad. It's time to make the playoffs!

Kudos to you.

Yes, congrats to Bernier, we all should be glad, but nobody could expect this, even the Bernier fan club.

He's shown he's capable of it before, shouldn't be that unexpected that he does it again.

The short-term question is if he can maintain it. The long-term question is does it matter? He's still not performing well enough overall to be a solution. You can't have a goaltender who might fall apart on you on a long-term contract if you want to compete.

 

[deletethis]

I prefer Bernier's version of being "on" to Reimer's version of it. Bernier appears calm, in control, non-chaotic, able to kill the play after a tough save. But until he's doing it for long stretches of games, I'll remain a skeptic about the permanency of this version of Bernier.

 

[hoglund]

Bernier played well last night and is 5-2 since returning, the only negative comment I can make is that the game vs the Islanders, the Leafs lost, but totally out played them and the loss WAS Bernier's fault, he should be 6-1 in his last 7. I hope he continues to play like last night.

 

[Gramsci]

Two really good performances should do a lot to boost Bernier's confidence. He was struggling about as mightily as I've ever seen from a goalie before the last two games. But, wow, something seems to have clicked for him.

I sure hope he can maintain the solid play. Keeps the Leafs faint playoff hopes alive and builds his trade equity, should the Leafs wish to unload him.

 

[hoglund]

Two really good performances should do a lot to boost Bernier's confidence. He was struggling about as mightily as I've ever seen from a goalie before the last two games. But, wow, something seems to have clicked for him.

I sure hope he can maintain the solid play. Keeps the Leafs faint playoff hopes alive and builds his trade equity, should the Leafs wish to unload him.

I think Bernier is making too much and will be hard to trade. Reimer is probably the better goalie of the two, but Reimer is more likely to be the one traded because or his contract.

 

[marquee]

A big chunk of what happened is on Babcock alone. Announcing Bernier will play 60 games was foolish, a 53 year old coach should know better. Reimer had by far better stats in preseason, giving Bernier the first 2 games he didn't earned was foolish. Pulling Bernier after the 1st period was fool's textbook so Reimer had to play b2b which most teams avoid and Babcock in Detroit avoided either. You could recognize that it hurt Reimer too. The next fool's textbook was playing Bernier b2b, foolish if you were surprised that Bernier got injured. Luckily Reimer could perform good then but playing 3 games in 4 nights in his first month can't be good. Then there was Bernier's famous game in NY after he didn't play for 15 days, you should expect not a good game after injury, but Babcock was surprised and didn't play him for another 13 days and let him get cold even more. Then Reimer had to play 3 games in 4 nights again, fool's textbook again, but not enough, Reimer got no rest and had to show up in practice and the damage was done. Bravo Babcock, you ruined 2 goalies in the first 2 months, you are even better than fool's textbook. After those 13 days Bernier must have been ice cold, no wonder he had another bad game, you just had to forget about it, but Babcock didn't forget. Then Bernier was a Marlies, it would have been much better to use that opportunity earlier instead of playing him cold in NY and against the Caps. There is experience how long groin injuries need to heal, playing Reimer after 10 days again couldn't be good, which fool was responsible for that. To say it short, most if not all of this could have been avoided just with managing the starts better and give the goalies more rest, so simple.

honestly pre season stats mean jack. They mean jack in every league when it comes to two proffessionals its nothing but a tune up after a long summer.

 

[airbus220]

Kudos to you.



He's shown he's capable of it before, shouldn't be that unexpected that he does it again.

The short-term question is if he can maintain it. The long-term question is does it matter? He's still not performing well enough overall to be a solution. You can't have a goaltender who might fall apart on you on a long-term contract if you want to compete.

Unexpected because he was struggling so much recently.
I wonder where we could be if they alternated the starts and gave some more starts to the better performer. They should still alternate now since both had injuries before.
The next weeks will be interesting. Keeping Reimer is a question of money, I wouldn't want to pay too much and Bernier isn't worth the money he's getting now. Rare but still possible would be trading Reimer at the deadline and signing him as a UFA again if he's not too expensive.

 

[marquee]

Bernier played well last night and is 5-2 since returning, the only negative comment I can make is that the game vs the Islanders, the Leafs lost, but totally out played them and the loss WAS Bernier's fault, he should be 6-1 in his last 7. I hope he continues to play like last night.

Thats subjective they didnt play a good defensive game.

 

[marquee]

interesting. Babcock seems to have learned from his mistakes. At the same time, both Reimer and Bernier should take responsibility. Bernier for his poor play at the start of the season and Reimer for asking for a break on those b2bs.

End of the day thats on the coach to realize reimer has durability issues and make the judgement call.


It appears you can never please mr. babchuk or the reimer fan base on this board. not surprising its been like this for 4 years as hes been outplayed by gustavvson and now bernier.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Another good game by Bernier. Glad to see it. I'm "Team whoever wins"

 

[Trapper]

Kudos to you.



He's shown he's capable of it before, shouldn't be that unexpected that he does it again.

The short-term question is if he can maintain it. The long-term question is does it matter? He's still not performing well enough overall to be a solution. You can't have a goaltender who might fall apart on you on a long-term contract if you want to compete.

As I said before, Bernier is not a career .888 goalie. Just like Kadri is not a 1.7% shooter.
Now it's just consistency. He's not an all star but he's better than what we were getting.

 

[saltming]

I prefer Bernier's version of being "on" to Reimer's version of it. Bernier appears calm, in control, non-chaotic, able to kill the play after a tough save. But until he's doing it for long stretches of games, I'll remain a skeptic about the permanency of this version of Bernier.

I believe this is why management decided to invest in Bernier, he projects as a better goalie than Reimer.

 

[airbus220]

honestly pre season stats mean jack. They mean jack in every league when it comes to two proffessionals its nothing but a tune up after a long summer.

Yes I know. But at the start of the season when you can't be sure about their conditioning alternating the starts makes sense, especially when your backup isn't bad. It seems Bernier started the season very unprepared, that's how I felt about him. At the start of the season you go from game to game, how they perform and you evaluate new, instead it was announced Bernier will play 60 games. We saw how that ended. Even an more experienced Lundqvist who played with less workload in November than Reimer struggled recently, maybe his 67 game pace is even too much for him, it was definitely too much for Reimer.

 

[81Reasons]

Seems like the Bernier love is so great that a couple of good starts and all is forgotten. Hopefully management will see that in the long run he's not a solution. We need someone with way more consistency, and mental fortitude.

Should be an interesting 2nd half of the season with Reimer set to return. Bernier merely has to play average with another year on his contract and management will most definitely take the safe route of trading Reimer. However, if Reimer regains control of the crease (Babcock is probably skeptical of Bernier), how will Bernier respond, how will management deal with this scenario at the trade deadline?