Johnny Hockey Contract Watch - The End of Days?

[Johnny Hoxville]

Read between the lines, but Treliving is back in Calgary without a signed Gaudreau. Looks like it'll take a few regular-season games before it'll be figured out.

Or maybe he gave them their best offer and several options and now Johnny is considering on how to proceed.

 

[Anglesmith]

The other way to look at this is that there is a Flames event involving Burke and Treliving going on today ("Red Rally"), and so being in New York may not have been an option anyway. They may be planning to return to New York right away in order to hammer out a deal.

 

[Bouma Fett*]

It's also Thanksgiving so Treliving may be back to see family, then resume stuff on Tuesday

 

[1989]

Just wanted to make it clear that I'm not trying to be a firestarter.

I'm not saying there aren't other explanations available and the aforementioned team event is a legitimate reason to return. However, half the weekend is gone at this point. Treliving might be taking a break from negotiation to celebrate the holiday with his family before heading back to the east coast next week. With that being said, I feel like they wanted to get it done before today, fly him out to Calgary post-announcement for the Red Rally event to celebrate and reconnect with fans, etc. Gut feeling that today was some kind of soft deadline, but of course it doesn't mean negotiations have stopped cold. Of course the night before the season opener is another possible soft deadline and Treliving certainly has a reputation as one of the hardest-working managers in hockey.

Anyways, I was hoping Treliving would stay through the weekend, convince the Gaudreaus to celebrate Canadian Thanksgiving, and put it all on the line after dinner by breaking the wishbone with Gaudreau's agent, with the winner setting the contract terms.

 

[Mitts]

Calm down people, get a hold of yourselves.

 

[BVicious]

With Monahan only playing 1 Pre-Season game, new coach and systems, it's perfectly normal to be worried about this situation. I'm sure something will get done, but with no practices, games, etc it's hard to imagine we don't struggle out the gate. First 3 games are a huge 6 points.

Flames fans cannot be content with him missing regular season games. Especially these 3 games.

I'm hoping today is the day, to get some practices in.

 

[Tofveve]

With Monahan only playing 1 Pre-Season game, new coach and systems, it's perfectly normal to be worried about this situation. I'm sure something will get done, but with no practices, games, etc it's hard to imagine we don't struggle out the gate. First 3 games are a huge 6 points.

Flames fans cannot be content with him missing regular season games. Especially these 3 games.

I'm hoping today is the day, to get some practices in.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Tofveve]

The other way to look at this is that there is a Flames event involving Burke and Treliving going on today ("Red Rally"), and so being in New York may not have been an option anyway. They may be planning to return to New York right away in order to hammer out a deal.

Nice updates, good to hear something anyway. Somewhat encouraging.

 

[Calculon]

3. Calgary GM Brad Treliving met with Johnny Gaudreau’s agent, Lewis Gross, in New York on Tuesday, then the family joined both men Wednesday in Philadelphia. It sounds like there’s been movement but sometimes the problem is that both sides see themselves as having moved enough and everyone digs in again. I think they are grinding, trying to close. The key is how many UFA years are going to be included. Gaudreau is five years away.

Friedman's 30 Thoughts

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I'm wondering if Johnny is pushing for 6, and the Flames want 8.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I'm wondering if Johnny is pushing for 6, and the Flames want 8.

I think the years are probably tied to cap hit, since they are UFA. Seems to me like Gaudreau would sign 8, for a larger average salary.

 

[TheHudlinator]

Can we please just sign him the waiting is killing me!

 

[Unlimited Chequing]

I'm wondering if Johnny is pushing for 6, and the Flames want 8.

Is it possible it might be the other way around in that Gaudreau might want less and the Flames want more? Conroy said in an interview last season there's no way they were going to sign Gaudreau for 5 or 6 cause a player like him you want to get as much of his UFA years as possible.

If he wants 5 or 6 on this contract, it gives him the leverage on the next contract he doesn't have now for the big pay day.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Is it possible it might be the other way around in that Gaudreau might want less and the Flames want more? Conroy said in an interview last season there's no way they were going to sign Gaudreau for 5 or 6 cause a player like him you want to get as much of his UFA years as possible.

If he wants 5 or 6 on this contract, it gives him the leverage on the next contract he doesn't have now for the big pay day.

If he takes 6 now, that takes him to 29 years old. Next contract would be the big one, and be 7 (or 8) years, taking him to 36 (37). Will he get another 7-8 year contract at max dollars for the 2nd go-around? Probalby not. Now if he takes 8 years today, that takes him to 31 years old - right in the prime of his career. A 7 (or 8) year contract, if he's performing as expected, will be for near max dollars and term - taking him to 38(39). Best option for him, IMO.

Or, say he takes a 4 year bridge deal now. His next contract at 27 years old will likely be 8 years, taking him to 35. Even more unlikely teams will offer 7-8 year deals at big money as he'll be leaving his prime. Likely the worst option for him.

It makes more sense for Gaudreau to take the longest possible deal now, where the Flames "buy" a couple of UFA years. It also provides him with some insurance in case of injury. If I'm in his camp, I'm also looking for some bonus money to guarantee he's paid during a possible lockout. I'm also looking for at least a limited NTC, which the Flames aren't handing out a lot these days.

 

[Lunatik]

If he won't take 7 oor 8 years, I wouldn't do more than 3 years.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

If he won't take 7 oor 8 years, I wouldn't do more than 3 years.

From a Gaudreau perspective, 2 years might be the best option. Still gives him a chance at two significant contracts, teh only issue is the injury risk in the next 2 years.

 

[Calculon]

 

[Nightrain]

Not feeling good about this, still think they are far apart on what they are looking for.

Did hear that it will be resolved one way or another in the next couple of days, not surprising I guess.

 

[Tofveve]

From a Gaudreau perspective, 2 years might be the best option. Still gives him a chance at two significant contracts, teh only issue is the injury risk in the next 2 years.

Agreed.

It is ridiculous on management's side to think/act like Gaudreau has no leverage. It makes zero sense for him to sign for less than about 8 million (minimum) on a long-term deal. It'll be eating into his UFA years and prime as a player. And for perspective, Patrick Kane who JG could well be competing with for points over the next few years has a yearly BASE of 7 mill AND yearly 6 mill signing bonus (for 13 total mill per for the next several years), it's a steal if the Flames get JG for 8 yrs at 8 mill per. I get that P. Kane is a UFA, but the Flames are trying to cheat JG out of huge dollars if they ignore how a long-term will affect his ability to cash in on gigantic UFA numbers.

Bottom line is the fan-base is being strung along with the supposed fairness of something in the high sixes or even in the sevens.

Again, even a front-loaded contract that benefits the Flames for a couple of years paying JG RFA numbers are more than likely lacking meaningful signing bonus numbers. RFA or not, JG's agent HAS to look out for his client and by the sounds of it the Flames are nowhere close to something that makes sense. Right now by every metric the Flames are insulting JG with their offers IMHO.

 

[BVicious]

Agreed.

It is ridiculous on management's side to think/act like Gaudreau has no leverage.

Right now by every metric the Flames are insulting JG with their offers IMHO.

I have a hard time getting onboard with these 2 statements. I come from the side who supports owners in the CBA lockouts, because I can relate to their side more than a player.

The owners fought to have these rights for these types of players. If BT caves, 29 other GMs and Owners will cringe at what little power they are left with after the next lockout. You are right, JG doesn't have to sign.

Personally, I'll stress, this is my opinion, but I think Murray Edwards is a bit nervous....deals to Gio, Hamilton, Frolik, Brower, and most recently Monahan, are huge commitments to an owner of an Alberta Team, who is funded by the Oil & Gas markets. Adding in my own personal experience of being directly involved with laying off more than 160 people at my work, ranging from single parents living check to check, to executives with a masters degree and decades of experience. When you sit in a room and deliver that dreadful news to people, you start to see things differently. So when someone says they are being unfair to Johnny Hockey, I say no way.

It's funny how most people seem unfazed about this recession and its effects on all markets, to think it won't have a negative effect on our hockey team is foolish. From a new arena, to ticket prices, or a $60Million dollar contract for a 23 year old softmore, there are several factors to consider before filling out that contract.

BT is simply doing his job, and very well I may add. He is in the middle group between Ownership and Players. A contract worth $6M+ is easy for us to offer when you aren't paying it. The $2M difference between the offering and the asking is also a big freaking deal to the owner and to the GM who has to manage cap.

I'm a fan of Johnny Hockey, I really am. I love seeing the little guy win, battle adversity and shine with the brightest stars in this league. When he said he isn't negotiating during the WHC I knew this was trouble. He is basically saying **** you pay me. And Brad isn't blinking


But I'm always on the side of the team who knows what's best for the team. Circle back to my work experience....I'll take a hit to my personall salary, my growth, for the growth of the company I work for. If the company does well, I do well and have a secure job. That's my line of thinking with NHL players unfortunately and it skews my insight on the business side of the game. But for JG, he can sign any contract, at any term, and it doesn't matter if the owner loses money, if the team loses games and seasons, or if the player stinks or gets injured....the risk is all on the Team, not the player.

/rant

 

[Tofveve]

I have a hard time getting onboard with these 2 statements. I come from the side who supports owners in the CBA lockouts, because I can relate to their side more than a player.

The owners fought to have these rights for these types of players. If BT caves, 29 other GMs and Owners will cringe at what little power they are left with after the next lockout. You are right, JG doesn't have to sign.

Personally, I'll stress, this is my opinion, but I think Murray Edwards is a bit nervous....deals to Gio, Hamilton, Frolik, Brower, and most recently Monahan, are huge commitments to an owner of an Alberta Team, who is funded by the Oil & Gas markets. Adding in my own personal experience of being directly involved with laying off more than 160 people at my work, ranging from single parents living check to check, to executives with a masters degree and decades of experience. When you sit in a room and deliver that dreadful news to people, you start to see things differently. So when someone says they are being unfair to Johnny Hockey, I say no way.

It's funny how most people seem unfazed about this recession and its effects on all markets, to think it won't have a negative effect on our hockey team is foolish. From a new arena, to ticket prices, or a $60Million dollar contract for a 23 year old softmore, there are several factors to consider before filling out that contract.

BT is simply doing his job, and very well I may add. He is in the middle group between Ownership and Players. A contract worth $6M+ is easy for us to offer when you aren't paying it. The $2M difference between the offering and the asking is also a big freaking deal to the owner and to the GM who has to manage cap.

I'm a fan of Johnny Hockey, I really am. I love seeing the little guy win, battle adversity and shine with the brightest stars in this league. When he said he isn't negotiating during the WHC I knew this was trouble. He is basically saying **** you pay me. And Brad isn't blinking


But I'm always on the side of the team who knows what's best for the team. Circle back to my work experience....I'll take a hit to my personall salary, my growth, for the growth of the company I work for. If the company does well, I do well and have a secure job. That's my line of thinking with NHL players unfortunately and it skews my insight on the business side of the game. But for JG, he can sign any contract, at any term, and it doesn't matter if the owner loses money, if the team loses games and seasons, or if the player stinks or gets injured....the risk is all on the Team, not the player.

/rant

Unfortunately, if this is the summation of their consideration, then they made mistakes with prior contracts and shouldn't attempt to make their soft-spoken, likeable, clean-image SUPERSTAR eat those mistakes. And I was just thinking about Hamilton's contract today and other dubious contracts on the Flames payroll so it's ironic you bring his name up. Throw in recent overpaid signings like Brouwer and Frolik (when they knew JG's contract was coming up and should have known it would be substantially larger than Monahan's and even Gio's) it's mismanagement at the highest level. Honesty it could be argued that Monahan's contract is a little large considering who he's benefited from playing with - Johnny Gaudreau.

 

[tmurfin]

Unfortunately, if this is the summation of their consideration, then they made mistakes with prior contracts and shouldn't attempt to make their soft-spoken, likeable, clean-image SUPERSTAR eat those mistakes. And I was just thinking about Hamilton's contract today and other dubious contracts on the Flames payroll so it's ironic you bring his name up. Throw in recent overpaid signings like Brouwer and Frolik (when they knew JG's contract was coming up and should have known it would be substantially larger than Monahan's and even Gio's) it's mismanagement at the highest level. Honesty it could be argued that Monahan's contract is a little large considering who he's benefited from playing with - Johnny Gaudreau.

I'd agree with you if we didn't have enough space to sign Gaudreau. But we do. So I don't know what you're talking about, without those two signings we'd have litteraly one top 6 winger, Gaudreau, and he's sitting out, now that would be bad management.

 

[DFF]

It's scary to put so much money on one guy but the Flames got to do it

This team cant generate offense without him.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

If we didn't pay Frolik and Brouwer, who would be in our top 6, Colbourne and Chiasson?

I mean we could have signed Ladd, Okposo, or Lucic, but how many of those guys would have come here and really you probably only get and you would have to overpay him. Treliving paid market value for a couple FA's that we needed and both fill a hole.

 

[Otzelor]

That´s that s*** I don´t like.

Hopefully this drama will stop soon.