OT: John Tortorella Suspension? (UPD: Suspended 15 days/6 games, Hartley fined $25,000)

[luongo321]

^ Tortz >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AV/Bertie

 

[BobbyJazzLegs]

Speaking of whining...

 

[604]

I hope that while MG and Tortz were in New York that they were able to have a chat with bettman/daly about Devorski. I really do. Utter nonsense that this league tries to sweep that type of conduct underneath the carpet.

I agree that my hope is refs don't do crap like that but at the same time, you have to realize that refs are human beings and when you treat them like **** they will treat you like ****.

I believe Torts had a talk with Kassian after the incident because we need to realize that the crap we do get us in trouble with refs because we often act poorly. This carries from one game to another.

 

[Wetcoaster]

For the record, here again is the list of suspensions/non-suspensions for/against over the past couple years. I may have forgotten a few.

David Booth concussed from crosscheck to the head - 0 games
Andrew Alberts concussed from elbow/forearm to the head - 0 games
Alberts headshot from Matt Pelech - 0 games.
Booth kneed by Kevin Porter - 4 games. (this one is actually about right)
Daniel Sedin concussed on one of the most blatant cheapshots in the NHL in the past 5 years - 5 games
Sedin blasted into the boards from behind by Ben Eager - 0 games.
Rome concussed on a check from behind by Jamie McGinn - 0 games.
Tanev injured on hit from behind by Kyle Clifford - 0 games.

Tortorella yells at the Flames coaches - 6 games, after Hanlon got 0 for the same thing a couple years ago. Precedent setting.
Edler has Hertl skate into his shoulder, Hertl doesn't even fall down - 3 games.
Weise hit on Hall, Hall not even knocked down - 3 games.
Kassian careless/accidental high stick - 8 games. Precedent setting.
Edler hits Smith - 2 games, right after Lucic got 0 for a far worse offense. Precedent setting.
Hansen incidental/accidental collision with Hossa - 1 game for nothing. Precedent setting.
Byron Bitz check from behind - 2 playoff games. Way out of line with what similar hits have received.
Aaron Rome throws a clean check 0.2 seconds late - equivalent to a 20 game suspension. Precedent setting. Brian Burke helps with the decision.

I use 'precedent setting' here rather loosely, since it implies that the precedent was actually maintained, instead of the suspension just being a one-off outlier.

This has nothing to do with supplemental discipline and the process negotiated via the CBA respecting players.

This is done via the NHL by-laws that allow for fines of up to $1 million on both a coach and also the team as well as expulsions and suspensions of any length of time.

This was the process under which Pat Quinn was initially banned for life from the NHL and both the Canucks and Kings were fined as a result of Quinngate.

 

[Wetcoaster]

No, this is incorrect because a coach is not a player. Why do they fine coaches instead of suspending them for offenses?

Coaches have been suspended in the past - Harry Neale for example was suspended 10 games and the run to the Stanley Cup under the white towels began.

The NHL by-laws allow for both fines and suspensions and even expulsions of coaches (or other team employees). It also allows for the team to be fined up to $1 million in addition to any penalty levied against the offender.

 

[Timmer44]

Do coaches get paid year round or just during the season? If it's year round, Torts will forfeit a little over 83 Thousand. Quite the financial hit.

 

[Lady Scarlet]

I'm sick of the Canuck whining. Unlike the myth that the team is soft the opinion that the Canucks fans are whiners is 100% solid imo.

We have some heightened sense of entitlement (shown up unfortunately in the riots)

We have a raving bampot for a coach and he hurts our team while pretending to be "protecting it" Look at him, he couldn't protect a flea in real life.

He rants and raves in the knowledge that no one will call him out. It's all about him, it always has been about him. In the end it breads team weakness as was seen at NY. They dislocate from accountability because "big bad Torts" will throw a tantrum on their behalf.

This is the man who prods Edler in public (look how tough I am) who disrespects Hansen in public (look at me) who whines like a baby for putting a rookie out to fight because he was so wrapped up in his own ranting and raving he lost his coaching mind.

Let's be honest, he acted like the Twins had taken to the ice and been severely gubbed. They weren't, he spotted the ploy (if indeed there ever was one) and handled it. So why not settle the f---k down and do his job?

But no it all conceit, self-pleasure and self approbation with Tortorella. Why because he's weak he want's to look strong in a strong man's sport but he's just another wannabe who lucked out in the Cup.

I see that weakness is having good effect on Kassian too, a guy who needs a role model to show him responsibility, control and composure gets a raving madman instead and thinks 'great I'll have some of this"

No the Flames coach shouldn't get more than his fine. Why because he controlled himself. He should be congratulated because he read Tortorella to a T, got the desired response and almost won the game.

Meanwhile the great "storm in a tea-cup" that is Tortorella will hopefully be getting anger management coaching while he leaves his team in the hands of an assistant.

3 months only, it has taken him to "light up" and hurt this team. Where has he left to go? Will he be pulling a plastic water pistol out and squirting his opposite number next?

The guy is one dimensional joke and if he can't behave he should make way for someone who can.

Do tell how he has 'hurt' this team? This incident has galvanized and united players and fans alike........ the tone of the quoted post is more that of a childish tantrum against someone personally disliked, rather than a hockey fan expressing an opinion. Just calling it like I see it.

 

[Ernie]

Tortorella wasn't suspended for yelling. He had to be physically restrained from charging towards the Flames' dressing room and engaged in a shoving match with Flames' players and staff.

He totally lost control. The NHL is going to come down hard on any off ice incidents like this, and understandably so. If Tortorella had simply walked down the hall, yelled, and then walked away, her probably would be looking at a fine, or, at most, a short suspension. But he kept at it for at least a minute, long after his better judgment should have kicked in.

I'd also argue that, as management, his actions should be held to a higher standard than that of the players. Because if a coach can't keep himself under control, how can you expect him to keep his players under control?

 

[luongo321]

I agree that my hope is refs don't do crap like that but at the same time, you have to realize that refs are human beings and when you treat them like **** they will treat you like ****.

I believe Torts had a talk with Kassian after the incident because we need to realize that the crap we do get us in trouble with refs because we often act poorly. This carries from one game to another.

When did we treat devorski like crap any more than any other team?
Auger tried to stick it to burrows and make it personal and Burrows called him out on it. I think that is coming back to haunt us. Is this why Devorski is deciding to screw with the Canucks? I don't know. If a ref isn't even trying to remain impartial, he needs to be fired. The league allows these refs to get away with this crap and that is my biggest problem. The league doesn't care. Sorry, I am getting a bit off-topic.

 

[dave babych returns]

Look at him, he couldn't protect a flea in real life.

I couldn't even continue beyond this point; I'd be willing to bet that as a well known dog lover Torts has unleashed untold devastation on thousands of fleas in real life.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Do coaches get paid year round or just during the season? If it's year round, Torts will forfeit a little over 83 Thousand. Quite the financial hit.

Coaches are paid based on their contractual terms - there is no Standard Coaches Contract.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Examples below speak volume on NHL suspension consistency:
- intent to injury (no actual injury): 0 games
- hit to head leading to concussion: 2-5games
- shoving and shouting match in opposition hallway (no injury): 6 games

Practically what this says is if Torts laced up and delivered a hit to head then he would get shorter suspension length.

Not relevant.

This was dealt with under the NHL By-Laws which is a totally different regime from Supplemental Discipline per the NHL Rulebook as refined by the CBA which applies to the players.

 

[Wetcoaster]

FWIW - I don't disagree that the Canucks are treated differently than other teams, I just happen to agree with Tortorella's suspension in this instance.

That is my take on things as well.

Burrows calling out Auger publicly and being backed up by AV and GMMG created a situation where the Canucks will not get the benefit of the doubt from the officials or the NHL. It is what it is.

I believe the Burrows account was accurate but the NHL By-laws are clear - you cannot do so even if it warranted.

 

[Edo]

Somebody should set up a booth outside of GM place with 18000 John Tortorella masks at the next home game.

It would be the greatest thing ever. 18,000 John Tortorella's.

 

[I in the Eye]

Tortorella wasn't suspended for yelling. He had to be physically restrained from charging towards the Flames' dressing room and engaged in a shoving match with Flames' players and staff.

He totally lost control. The NHL is going to come down hard on any off ice incidents like this, and understandably so. If Tortorella had simply walked down the hall, yelled, and then walked away, her probably would be looking at a fine, or, at most, a short suspension. But he kept at it for at least a minute, long after his better judgment should have kicked in.

I'd also argue that, as management, his actions should be held to a higher standard than that of the players. Because if a coach can't keep himself under control, how can you expect him to keep his players under control?

It was stupid for Torts to be there. It can't happen. The league had a whole spectrum of possibilities to make him pay for it. Would a $50,000 fine be a deterrent for next time? $100,000 fine? I think so. No one on the Flames were hurt. The game, itself, progressed fine. Flames could have easily won, not being hindered by the experience. I don't understand why the league feels compelled for Tortorella to not coach the team, with no contact, for 6 games. Does Calgary feel the need for this retribution? Is there a Calgary player or coach sitting in a dark room with a concussion, feeling a bit better knowing that Tortorella and the Canucks paid this high price? Do the teams the Canucks play over the next 6 games feel safer?

If we're talking about deterrent, and appropriate punishment, I don't understand what 6 games, 15 days does that 3 games 7.5 days doesn't. Or what a big fine doesn't, with no games. Throw any one on Torts and I doubt he does it again. Double it, and I think it has the same effect. Triple it, same effect. Hartley got a fine. Do you think teams over the next 6 games are more concerned about Torts or Hartley? Neither? That fine he got was probably enough of a deterrent to think twice before doing it again, no games needed. That fine was probably enough for Roy. He should think twice without any games necessary, to think about it longer.

I don't understand why Tortorella got 6 games, when, to me, it seems like both a lot, and seems to have been picked out of thin air.

I do think that Tortorella should have received punished. A stern warning punishment (after all, even though no one was hurt, it can't happen again). I can't say that Tortorella shouldn't have received a suspension. He's an old man who's been around the block. Can't happen. With kids and young adults in their 20's, can rationalize youthful exuberance.. but with a veteran coach, who's telling Kassian to watch his mouth? What is that worth, in money and games, for retribution? And who, exactly, is seeking and wanting retribution? Who got hurt? No one? The league? I knew that Tortorella was going to get something (I predicted 7 games). I just don't know why I predicted that, other than it felt around what the league was going to give Tortorella. I'm surprised that Hartley got anything. I think Gillis/Torts layed a compelling argument. That Hartley got a fine, I think it's enough for San Jose to feel reasonably comfortable that Hartley won't be starting goons next game. Hell, I think the fine is enough of a deterrent that Torts wouldn't have tried to get an Eakins tonight as well.

 

[Bertie]

Do tell how he has 'hurt' this team? This incident has galvanized and united players and fans alike........ the tone of the quoted post is more that of a childish tantrum against someone personally disliked, rather than a hockey fan expressing an opinion. Just calling it like I see it.

The truth too much for you LS?

How do you know whether he has or has not galvanised the team. His system and style has just got us into the wild card position. As for the fans, I doubt it. Sure he has the adolescents and knuckle draggers fooled but they are fickle and that will only last if we make the playoffs.

No tantrum I just write well, unlike some. I have backed up my argument based on facts. What is your source?

 

[Bertie]

It was stupid for Torts to be there. It can't happen. The league had a whole spectrum of possibilities to make him pay for it. Would a $50,000 fine be a deterrent for next time? $100,000 fine? I think so. No one on the Flames were hurt. The game, itself, progressed fine. Flames could have easily won, not being hindered by the experience. I don't understand why the league feels compelled for Tortorella to not coach the team, with no contact, for 6 games. Does Calgary feel the need for this retribution? Is there a Calgary player or coach sitting in a dark room with a concussion, feeling a bit better knowing that Tortorella and the Canucks paid this high price? Do the teams the Canucks play over the next 6 games feel safer?

If we're talking about deterrent, and appropriate punishment, I don't understand what 6 games, 15 days does that 3 games 7.5 days doesn't. Or what a big fine doesn't, with no games. Throw any one on Torts and I doubt he does it again. Double it, and I think it has the same effect. Triple it, same effect. Hartley got a fine. Do you think teams over the next 6 games are more concerned about Torts or Hartley? Neither? That fine he got was probably enough of a deterrent to think twice before doing it again, no games needed. That fine was probably enough for Roy. He should think twice without any games necessary.

I don't understand why Tortorella got 6 games, when, to me, it seems to have been picked out of thin air.

I do think that Tortorella should have received punished. A stern warning punishment. I can't say that Tortorella shouldn't have received a suspension. He's an old man who's been around the block. Can't happen. With kids and young adults in their 20's, can rationalize youthful exuberance.. but with a veteran coach, who's telling Kassian to watch his mouth? What is that worth, in money and games, for retribution? And who, exactly, is seeking and wanting retribution? Who got hurt? No one? The league? I knew that Tortorella was going to get something (I predicted 7 games). I just don't know why I predicted that, other than it felt around what the league was going to give Tortorella. I'm surprised that Hartley got anything. I think Gillis/Torts layed a compelling argument.

Because the guy's an idiot. An out of control idiot who has previous form. If this doesn't teach him to keep his mouth shut and his temper under control he needs to be given a year out of the game to get help.

 

[Bertie]

^ Tortz >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AV/Bertie

In what LALA world is that true?
Because he lucked out for a cup you think that blows away the winningest coach the Canucks have ever had?
You think because he bombed in NY and hasn't exactly started well here, that makes him better than AV? Dream on sir.

 

[7thGuest]

I have a feeling that this is a calculated move by Tort. By doing what he did, he united the team behind him, make the group closer and more importantly, take attention away from his players.

Remember how everyone say the Canucks is mentally weak for the last few games? Isn't this the best medicine?

Let's see how the team responds tonight.

 

[arsmaster*]

The truth too much for you LS?

How do you know whether he has or has not galvanised the team. His system and style has just got us into the wild card position. As for the fans, I doubt it. Sure he has the adolescents and knuckle draggers fooled but they are fickle and that will only last if we make the playoffs.

No tantrum I just write well, unlike some. I have backed up my argument based on facts. What is your source?

None of that was "the truth"....just your opinion and while semi interesting for a milli second, it went away before finishing the post.

The team told us they were galvanized....are they liars?

The team is in the wild card position? What is wrong with that....did you expect more? I didn't.

They play a more exciting brand of hockey this year than they have since 2011.

Adolescents and knuckle-draggers? I don't think so.

You haven't used a single fact....but forgive me if I'm not able to read your response.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Does this bring back memories to anyone else... even if you weren't alive during the 81-82 season. The Canucks sucked and then rallied around each other when their coach Harry Neale was suspended 10 games...

It would be funny if they organized the White Towel NOW at Canucks games rather than wait.

Yes it does bring back memories - 10 games for Harry Neale and Roger took over leading the Canucks to the SCF against the Islanders with an US against the World mentality. The iconic white towel incident ensued during the Chicago series which is enshrined in the statue outside Rogers Arena. Nice that they named the rink after Roger, eh??

It seems Canucks history is rooted in incidents of acts committed against the team by officials (that was what Roger was protesting by hoisting the white towel in mock surrender).

BTW coach suspensions are not unheard of:

• March 1982 Harry Neale, Canucks: suspended 10 games for punching fan
• February 1982 Don Perry, Kings: suspended 15 days (8 games) for ordering player to leave bench during altercation
• January 1989 Terry O'Reilly, Bruins: suspended 4 games and fined $1K
• October 1987 Bryan Murray, Capitals: suspended 3 games for off-ice incident with official between periods of game
• January 2000 Herb Brooks, Penguins: suspended 2 games for going after Avalanche TV play-by-play announcer John Kelly after a game
• November 2002 Bryan Trottier, Rangers: suspended 2 games for initiating a brawl

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/28836/longest-nhl-coach-suspensions

And in the wake of Quinngate after Quinn's expulsion from the NHL was rescinded (and IMHO it should not have been) Quinn was banned from joining the Canucks as GM until after the both LA and Vancouver were out of the play-offs and prohibited from coaching for three years.He was also fined the maximum allowable at the time ($10,000) and the team was fined $310,000 ($10,000 x 31 days of not reporting the incident to the NHL).

The statement from Ziegler expelling Quinn said:

"Mr. Quinn is directly responsible for the preparation and conduct of the Los Angeles Kings' NHL game competitions. Despite these responsibilities, he has committed himself to assume the responsibilities of a general manager for a competing team in this league, has accepted money from them and yet has continued to attempt to discharge his responsibilities to the Los Angeles Kings. Effective immediately, and until further notice to the contrary, Mr. Patrick Quinn is expelled from the National Hockey League and may not be employee by any member club of the league or involved in any further activities on behalf of the league or any of its member clubs."​

The decision was appealed to the BC Supreme Court and as a result all the inside information became public which would come back to haunt Quinn and the Canucks during the Krutov transfer fee arbitration. While the Canucks had their fine reduced to $10,000 with the court ruling you could not separate the non-reporting into 31 separate offences, the penalties levied against Quinn were ruled to be within the powers of NHL President John Ziegler.

Following Quinngate the NHL By-laws were amended to allow for a maximum fine of $1 million for both the offender and the team.

For details of Quinngate see:
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=49324

 

[hackey]

It was completely stupid what Tort's did. He should of known better.
A 54 year old man running to Calgary's dressing room to do what? Fight Hartley?
He should know better, he's been the league long enough.
What was he thinking? That no one would notice him there?
No camera was going to catch him?

Completely idiotic and immature

There's other ways to pump up his team, stick up for his team, motivate his team.
Acting like a complete assclown on national TV isn't one of them

Yet, 87% percent or whatever on a Team1040 poll supported what he did, what?

Tort's needs to be behind the bench while practicing restrain and not cementing his rep as a hot head

 

[Wetcoaster]

What way?

I'd definitely be happier if he hadn't decided to try to storm the flames' room for whatever reason. I love him for it, but it was ****ing stupid.

Players are probably going to get chirped about it in every scrum for like two years.

The pre-game decisions, and getting steamed at Hartley from the bench were all 100% spot-on, though.

Tortorella should have ripped Hartlely in the post-game presser rather than headed over to the Flames dressing room. By doing the latter he pretty much muzzled himself due to the impending league discipline. Not a smart move and he was discipline appropriately for his actions.

 

[arsmaster*]

In what LALA world is that true?
Because he lucked out for a cup you think that blows away the winningest coach the Canucks have ever had?
You think because he bombed in NY and hasn't exactly started well here, that makes him better than AV? Dream on sir.

AV's been past the 2nd round once, Torts' more than once.

He's a good coach, you seem to have an issue there.

Can you tell me why the team with the 11th best record in a 30 team league isn't at least performing "well"?

Bombed in NY, weren't they in the conference finals 2 years ago.

I'm giving you the chance to actually back up your opinion with some facts.....

I do think AV was a good coach too, but I think Torts has touched a nerve with you and you're just babbling nonsense and uneducated opinions, but in your own view you're an excellent writer, so lets see the proof in writing.

 

[Wetcoaster]

I find Burkes comments interesting. He stands behind "Hartley on this issue."

Especially after calling out the teams play.

Im guessing Hartley isnt going to be the coach there past this year if not sooner.

Elliotte Friedman's article examines the Hartley/Burke dynamic and how it may have contributed to these events.

Let's make this very clear: Burke is not responsible for this. Hartley and Tortorella are adults responsible for their own actions.

But, let's look at what's going through Hartley's head on Saturday: The team is really trying, but has three wins in 16 games. The guy who hired you is gone and the guy in charge is publicly praising you, but that doesn't really mean a ton.

When he takes over, Burke comes right out and says he doesn't like the way the Flames play, wanting more toughness, for one thing. On Saturday, he ended a lengthy silence by telling The Calgary Sun's Eric Francis he can't sleep because the team is losing. And, he shows up at the game.

It's been kind of a weird dynamic with Burke so far. He hasn't been at a lot of road games, so when Hartley reads that and knows the boss is coming, his mind is working overtime.

He's done the best possible job with this group and there are only 30 of these spots available. Hartley had to wait longer than he wanted to get this opportunity, so he's going to do whatever it takes to keep it.​

http://www.cbc.ca/sports-content/ho...no-choice-but-to-suspend-john-tortorella.html

As per past events Burkie continues to haunt this franchise long after he has departed.