Prospect Info: Joel Armia

[Board Bard]

Thanks FinJetster, interesting read. He's got his head screwed on right.

 

[GJF]

The youngster from Pori is now enjoying humbly from every single day in the NHL. Although the ambition and the level of work is high, he also knows how to take pleasure of every day.

- This is just so great, I don’t know how to put it into words. I’ve wanted this so long – to get to play in the NHL. I try to do everything as well as I can, and give everything I got on the rink, so that I wouldn’t ever have to go back down (to AHL), Armia says.
- I can tell it also (has affected me in) in my everyday life, that I’m more happy and life ain’t the kind off plowing (= struggle), as it was in the farm.

Interesting. Goes with what a couple of people around here kept saying when he was on the Moose. "He doesn't look 100% engaged and kind of unhappy". Nothing left to be seen of unhappiness and lack of dedication since he was dressed for the first time.

 

[Huffer]

Thanks for the article!

 

[ps241]

Good article FinJetster nice share!

 

[Jetabre]

Thanks for the translation. You can tell he's been working hard on doing everything the coach asks, and Maurice likes what he sees.

 

[KingBogo]

Agreed nice share. Thanks FinJetster.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

Very much appreciated, FinJetster!

It makes we think about the difference between Armia's success and Petan's failure this year. Of course, Petan is much younger, so I'm not knocking him.

But many here have said, "Petan didn't get his chance. He needs to play with better, more offensive players." Sure, perhaps Petan would have done better offensively with better line mates.

But that seems to be missing the point. The point is that even high end, talented prospects need to be able to show a basic defensive responsibility in a sheltered role before being promoted up the line. If they don't, then putting them in a higher role, even if it allows them to succeed offensively, will introduce a glaring defensive hole. Even worse, it may stunt the proper development of the young player, by allowing them to circumvent proper defensive play training, and reinforce habits that may have worked for a gifted player in Junior, but not in the NHL. I would guess this may be one of Edmonton's many problems in recent years.

This system is looking to train 2-way, defensively responsible players. This is exactly what Armia understands. This is what Armia accomplished. This is why Armia is getting promoted. He's shown he can play a defensively responsible game. He's earned his shot to move on to a higher, offensive line.

Petan didn't. Time in the AHL is just what he needs. I hope he understands the challenge ahead of him like Armia does.

 

[Duke749]

Very much appreciated, FinJetster!

It makes we think about the difference between Armia's success and Petan's failure this year. Of course, Petan is much younger, so I'm not knocking him.

But many here have said, "Petan didn't get his chance. He needs to play with better, more offensive players." Sure, perhaps Petan would have done better offensively with better line mates.

But that seems to be missing the point. The point is that even high end, talented prospects need to be able to show a basic defensive responsibility in a sheltered role before being promoted up the line. If they don't, then putting them in a higher role, even if it allows them to succeed offensively, will introduce a glaring defensive hole. Even worse, it may stunt the proper development of the young player, by allowing them to circumvent proper defensive play training, and reinforce habits that may have worked for a gifted player in Junior, but not in the NHL. I would guess this may be one of Edmonton's many problems in recent years.

This system is looking to train 2-way, defensively responsible players. This is exactly what Armia understands. This is what Armia accomplished. This is why Armia is getting promoted. He's shown he can play a defensively responsible game. He's earned his shot to move on to a higher, offensive line.

Petan didn't. Time in the AHL is just what he needs. I hope he understands the challenge ahead of him like Armia does.

You should post more.

 

[Jet]

Very much appreciated, FinJetster!

It makes we think about the difference between Armia's success and Petan's failure this year. Of course, Petan is much younger, so I'm not knocking him.

But many here have said, "Petan didn't get his chance. He needs to play with better, more offensive players." Sure, perhaps Petan would have done better offensively with better line mates.

But that seems to be missing the point. The point is that even high end, talented prospects need to be able to show a basic defensive responsibility in a sheltered role before being promoted up the line. If they don't, then putting them in a higher role, even if it allows them to succeed offensively, will introduce a glaring defensive hole. Even worse, it may stunt the proper development of the young player, by allowing them to circumvent proper defensive play training, and reinforce habits that may have worked for a gifted player in Junior, but not in the NHL. I would guess this may be one of Edmonton's many problems in recent years.

This system is looking to train 2-way, defensively responsible players. This is exactly what Armia understands. This is what Armia accomplished. This is why Armia is getting promoted. He's shown he can play a defensively responsible game. He's earned his shot to move on to a higher, offensive line.

Petan didn't. Time in the AHL is just what he needs. I hope he understands the challenge ahead of him like Armia does.

Really nice assessment of the situation and I totally agree.

 

[GaryinPrague]

Thanks for the translation. You can tell he's been working hard on doing everything the coach asks, and Maurice likes what he sees.

Are you talking about FinJetster?

 

[PhilJets]

Petan wasn't bad defensively. He was just not bulk enough yet to outmuscle opponents.
Petan is one of the better 2-way prospect of the Jets. He made opening rosters because he was good enough defensively. He was being tested if he can go up against bigger opponents on a daily grind.
He wasn't able to handle, and this will be better for him as he knows what to do comes summer time.

For offensive opportunity? it is very very difficult to generate points if you play 5 minutes a game and playing with the least offensive players on the team.
He was thrown into 2nd power play unit a few games, but considering you have 2 shift all game and you then sent out with the 2nd power play unit late in the 2nd period. That is hard to do, unlike you are already in the flow of the game with 10 shift or 10 minutes played.

Having said that, Armia should also be deployed with players with offensive skills.

Jets forwards currently with least offensive skills

Peluso
Burmistrov
Lowry
Halischuk
Copp
Peluso

Players that will be good for Petan or Armia
Wheeler, Little, Schiefele, Perrault, Stafford and Ehlers
that is with out Ladd

Top 9 of

Ladd Little Stafford / Ehlers Schiefele Wheeler / Armia Perrault Petan
is offensively gifted line, not big though.

Lowry Copp Lemiuex - 4th line

 

[Puckatron 3000]

Petan wasn't bad defensively. He was just not bulk enough yet to outmuscle opponents.

First off, let me say that I really like Petan. I think he'll have a great future with the Jets.

Also, I agree that Petan's size/bulk is certainly a factor in his defensive play.

That being said, either he is successful at defending on the 4th line, or he isn't. When it comes to making the team, the reasons don't matter. You succeed, or you don't. That's all I was saying.

Petan is one of the better 2-way prospect of the Jets. He made opening rosters because he was good enough defensively.

I don't think he was good enough (yet). Maurice didn't think so either (although he's not always right). I'm sure Petan will get there with age and experience.

 

[Ducky10]

Petan wasn't bad defensively. He was just not bulk enough yet to outmuscle opponents.
Petan is one of the better 2-way prospect of the Jets. He made opening rosters because he was good enough defensively. He was being tested if he can go up against bigger opponents on a daily grind.
He wasn't able to handle, and this will be better for him as he knows what to do comes summer time.

For offensive opportunity? it is very very difficult to generate points if you play 5 minutes a game and playing with the least offensive players on the team.
He was thrown into 2nd power play unit a few games, but considering you have 2 shift all game and you then sent out with the 2nd power play unit late in the 2nd period. That is hard to do, unlike you are already in the flow of the game with 10 shift or 10 minutes played.

Having said that, Armia should also be deployed with players with offensive skills.

Jets forwards currently with least offensive skills

Peluso
Burmistrov
Lowry
Halischuk
Copp
Peluso

Players that will be good for Petan or Armia
Wheeler, Little, Schiefele, Perrault, Stafford and Ehlers
that is with out Ladd

Top 9 of

Ladd Little Stafford / Ehlers Schiefele Wheeler / Armia Perrault Petan
is offensively gifted line, not big though.

Lowry Copp Lemiuex - 4th line

What's the preoccupation with size? Petan was ok positionally but there is more to playing well defensively than just being in the right place. Petan just wasn't processing the game fast enough, very similar to Scheif in his first couple of years. He wasn't ready but it wasn't because of his size, there are lots of small, effective forwards in the NHL.

 

[KingBogo]

First off, let me say that I really like Petan. I think he'll have a great future with the Jets.

Also, I agree that Petan's size/bulk is certainly a factor in his defensive play.

That being said, either he is successful at defending on the 4th line, or he isn't. When it comes to making the team, the reasons don't matter. You succeed, or you don't. That's all I was saying.



I don't think he was good enough (yet). Maurice didn't think so either (although he's not always right). I'm sure Petan will get there with age and experience.

Maurice eluded to these types of things over and over again in camp. "Players are going to make the team by playing the Jets game not their game". First and foremost it is picking up defensive assignments, primarily "being on the right side of the puck" in Maurice's eyes. That is always being in defensive position even at the cost of offensive production. This is a much easier assignment on the 3rd and 4th lines than on one of the scoring lines where you are matched up against the other teams top players. Having a young player matched up against the Seguin's and P. Kane's is a recipe for disaster even if they get a few more offensive looks.

And as you mentioned previously Armia was able to demonstrate this and was moved up the lineup. Petan wasn't able to and was returned to a lower level to develop his game. Sometimes I think we lose sight that coaches are trying to develop young players to be defensively responsible and far less worried about their offensive production then we are as fans. They have older more experience players that can be defensively responsible while still producing offense. They need rookies not to be a defensive liability as they adapt to the NHL game.

 

[surixon]

Maurice eluded to these types of things over and over again in camp. "Players are going to make the team by playing the Jets game not their game". First and foremost it is picking up defensive assignments, primarily "being on the right side of the puck" in Maurice's eyes. That is always being in defensive position even at the cost of offensive production. This is a much easier assignment on the 3rd and 4th lines than on one of the scoring lines where you are matched up against the other teams top players. Having a young player matched up against the Seguin's and P. Kane's is a recipe for disaster even if they get a few more offensive looks.

And as you mentioned previously Armia was able to demonstrate this and was moved up the lineup. Petan wasn't able to and was returned to a lower level to develop his game. Sometimes I think we lose sight that coaches are trying to develop young players to be defensively responsible and far less worried about their offensive production then we are as fans. They have older more experience players that can be defensively responsible while still producing offense. They need rookies not to be a defensive liability as they adapt to the NHL game.

There is trend emerging for how all our young top end players are being developed and it's been hit on nicely by a number of posters. It doesn't that matter the players talent level, they will be asked to focus on their defense first and the offense will gradually follow as they get comfortable with their assignments. We saw it Scheifele, we have seen it with Ehlers and Armia and I have seen it with Morrissey and DeLeo in the AHL. Petan will be asked to do the same.

Cudos on Armia for taking the demotion to heart last fall and working on what he needed to.

 

[lomiller1]

Interesting. Goes with what a couple of people around here kept saying when he was on the Moose. "He doesn't look 100% engaged and kind of unhappy". Nothing left to be seen of unhappiness and lack of dedication since he was dressed for the first time.

I think it’s case of a player who doesn’t play an “energy†game. There is still a mindset in some quarters that if you aren’t a scorer you need to play the style of game that guys like Halischuk or Lowry do. It doesn’t matter to them if the game he does play is more effective than a lower skill energy guy, they want the latter.

He may still be making smart/skilled low risk plays that help the team, but because they are not the “energy†style plays they go unnoticed. IOW he “disappears†because the observer is looking for the wrong things and missing the good things he’s doing until he gets a goal or assist, but because he’s not a scorer at this point & situation there are stretches where that doesn’t happen.

 

[lomiller1]

Petan wasn't bad defensively. He was just not bulk enough yet to outmuscle opponents.
Petan is one of the better 2-way prospect of the Jets. He made opening rosters because he was good enough defensively. He was being tested if he can go up against bigger opponents on a daily grind.
He wasn't able to handle, and this will be better for him as he knows what to do comes summer time.

For offensive opportunity? it is very very difficult to generate points if you play 5 minutes a game and playing with the least offensive players on the team.
He was thrown into 2nd power play unit a few games, but considering you have 2 shift all game and you then sent out with the 2nd power play unit late in the 2nd period. That is hard to do, unlike you are already in the flow of the game with 10 shift or 10 minutes played.

Having said that, Armia should also be deployed with players with offensive skills.

Jets forwards currently with least offensive skills

Peluso
Burmistrov
Lowry
Halischuk
Copp
Peluso

Players that will be good for Petan or Armia
Wheeler, Little, Schiefele, Perrault, Stafford and Ehlers
that is with out Ladd

Top 9 of

Ladd Little Stafford / Ehlers Schiefele Wheeler / Armia Perrault Petan
is offensively gifted line, not big though.

Lowry Copp Lemiuex - 4th line

How are you defining “offensive skill�

For a pure skill perspective Burmi is one of the teams most offensively skilled player he just doesn’t have the offensive instincts to use those skill in a way that is going to result in production at the NHL level.

Lowry on the other hand isn’t that skilled at all, but his offensive instincts are actually pretty good. Over the past 2 seasons he has as many shot attempts from high danger scoring areas as Ladd or Little in fewer games and fewer min. Part of this is that he plays in the dirty areas near the net, but overall team shot attempts from these areas is still good when he’s on the ice. (Comparable to Frolik and Ladd)

IMO Armia ends up a Burmi type player who has good skills but doesn’t have the offensive instincts to generate all that many chances.

 

[Howard Chuck]

How are you defining “offensive skill�

For a pure skill perspective Burmi is one of the teams most offensively skilled player he just doesn’t have the offensive instincts to use those skill in a way that is going to result in production at the NHL level.

Lowry on the other hand isn’t that skilled at all, but his offensive instincts are actually pretty good. Over the past 2 seasons he has as many shot attempts from high danger scoring areas as Ladd or Little in fewer games and fewer min. Part of this is that he plays in the dirty areas near the net, but overall team shot attempts from these areas is still good when he’s on the ice. (Comparable to Frolik and Ladd)

IMO Armia ends up a Burmi type player who has good skills but doesn’t have the offensive instincts to generate all that many chances.

I would have to say that I'll wait and see on this. That last goal of his was an incredible display of shooting ability in close. I think the combination of his vision and his hands may make him quite a productive member of the team.

 

[lomiller1]

I would have to say that I'll wait and see on this. That last goal of his was an incredible display of shooting ability in close. I think the combination of his vision and his hands may make him quite a productive member of the team.

He only has 3 shot attempts from high danger areas in 15 games played. It doesn’t matter how good he looks on a single play, he does seem to be able to generate the shots to be a goal scorer. Maybe that can change, but so far that’s not who he is. I like what he’s doing but I don’t see him being a big offensive producer with what he’s doing now.


http://war-on-ice.com/playertable.h...&end0=20152016&end1=2016-01-20&splitseasons=1

 

[Zhamnov10]

How are you defining “offensive skill�

For a pure skill perspective Burmi is one of the teams most offensively skilled player he just doesn’t have the offensive instincts to use those skill in a way that is going to result in production at the NHL level.

Lowry on the other hand isn’t that skilled at all, but his offensive instincts are actually pretty good. Over the past 2 seasons he has as many shot attempts from high danger scoring areas as Ladd or Little in fewer games and fewer min. Part of this is that he plays in the dirty areas near the net, but overall team shot attempts from these areas is still good when he’s on the ice. (Comparable to Frolik and Ladd)

IMO Armia ends up a Burmi type player who has good skills but doesn’t have the offensive instincts to generate all that many chances.

Totally disagree Armia is a real good play maker and scorer at every level he has played at as long as he was playing with offensive linemates.Burmi has struggled to score or make consistent passes at the ahl,khl and NHL level.I agree they both have a high skill level but Armia's offensive instincts and iq are much higher then burmi's in my opinion.Armia was lacking consistent intensity levels unlike Burmi who consistently works hard.

 

[lomiller1]

Totally disagree Armia is a real good play maker and scorer at every level he has played at as long as he was playing with offensive linemates.Burmi has struggled to score or make consistent passes at the ahl,khl and NHL level.I agree they both have a high skill level but Armia's offensive instincts and iq are much higher then burmi's in my opinion.Armia was lacking consistent intensity levels unlike Burmi who consistently works hard.

Last year Armia put up 31 points in 54 AHL games. At the same age Burmi put up 37 points in 54 KHL games and the KHL is a much tougher league. If you don’t like Burmistrov, the chances are that once the new and shiny wears off you won’t like Armia either.

 

[TannedBum]

Last year Armia put up 31 points in 54 AHL games. At the same age Burmi put up 37 points in 54 KHL games and the KHL is a much tougher league.

Everything isn't so black and white. In addition, he's played only two matches in the top9 role.

 

[jesui]

He only has 3 shot attempts from high danger areas in 15 games played. It doesn’t matter how good he looks on a single play, he does seem to be able to generate the shots to be a goal scorer. Maybe that can change, but so far that’s not who he is. I like what he’s doing but I don’t see him being a big offensive producer with what he’s doing now.


http://war-on-ice.com/playertable.h...&end0=20152016&end1=2016-01-20&splitseasons=1

It was his raw talent, stick skills, offensive production and instincs, why he was drafted in the first round.
But i agree with you that it hasn't showed much recently.
Defensive game and consistency was his weakness.

Youtube is full of his offensive highlights.
Well not full, but there is some.

 

[10Ducky10]

The difference between Burmi and Armia....

Burmi has played in 240 games(3 seasons) and scored 68 points. To me, he isn't progressing and has hit a plateau. The puck is on a string when he has it but more often than not he over handles it and loses possession. Needs to shoot more and make plays quicker. History would say that he doesn't get much better.

Armia has played 16 games and has no assists and two goals. Good on the boards and back checking. Good positioning in his own zone for a rookie. I'd like to see more of him on the PP tonight. He seems to be progressing every game and if he plays every game until the season is over, he will be near the player Burmi is if not better.

 

[Zhamnov10]

Last year Armia put up 31 points in 54 AHL games. At the same age Burmi put up 37 points in 54 KHL games and the KHL is a much tougher league. If you don’t like Burmistrov, the chances are that once the new and shiny wears off you won’t like Armia either.

It was actually 33 points and 25 of them were with Rochester in 33 games where he was playing with skilled players then he went to the ice caps where they are stressing defence first and he played with absolute garbage and he was also nursing an injury he may never be a 70 point guy but I think 50 points will be just fine with a strong defensive game and great possession numbers.He will be a great compliment to any line in the top 9 along the lines of a Stafford with a better defensive game.