Nihiliste
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2010
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Landeskog and Nuke being out really highlights how bad we've been at acquiring or developing defensively sound forwards
Joe Sakic - Record as Colorado Avalanche GM - Part III (Updates in First Post)
- Thread starter Foppa2118
- Start date
Really though, how much will those two help?
Nichushkin on the 2nd line should only emphasize how weak our group of forwards are.
Kaut and Ranta are not NHL forwards. Maltsev and Helm are 4th liners on a bottom feeder team. Compher is a 3rd line winger to pair with checkers Nichushkin and Jost.
Even with a healthy lineup this team cannot compete with teams like Washington.
We have alot of work to do. We have 9 NHL caliber forwards.
Landeskog- Mackinnon- Rantanen
Burakovsky- Kadri- ?
Nichushkin- Jost- Compher
O'Connor- ?- ?
Nihiliste
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2010
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I’m not saying they make our forward depth strong enough, I’m just saying they’re our only two good defensive forwards. That’s not a winning recipe
Sea Eagles
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- Feb 7, 2012
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Love the negativity after three games. You're not highlighting all the issues here, to start the season:
1. Mackinnon OUT
2. Landeskog OUT
3. Nichushkin OUT
That's half of your top 6
Toews OUT
That's half of your top pairing
Makar RETURNING
Off season surgery, no pre-season seasoning (can we give him SOME time?)
Francouz OUT
That's half your goalie tandem
And these are all key players. We are probably a 7/10 product right now. Give it time guys. Hang in there. In a few weeks, we'll be humming. Also take into consideration, the chamistry that would have to build. All these players are new to the top team from last year:
Murray, Francouz, Kuemper, MacDermid, J Johnson, E Johnson, Byram (only had a few games last year), Ranta, Maltzev, Helm. 10 players guys. Give them time to work stuff out. You cannot blame injury on Sakic, that's ridiculous.
1. Mackinnon OUT
2. Landeskog OUT
3. Nichushkin OUT
That's half of your top 6
Toews OUT
That's half of your top pairing
Makar RETURNING
Off season surgery, no pre-season seasoning (can we give him SOME time?)
Francouz OUT
That's half your goalie tandem
And these are all key players. We are probably a 7/10 product right now. Give it time guys. Hang in there. In a few weeks, we'll be humming. Also take into consideration, the chamistry that would have to build. All these players are new to the top team from last year:
Murray, Francouz, Kuemper, MacDermid, J Johnson, E Johnson, Byram (only had a few games last year), Ranta, Maltzev, Helm. 10 players guys. Give them time to work stuff out. You cannot blame injury on Sakic, that's ridiculous.
Foppa2118
Registered User
- Oct 3, 2003
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Post 2001 Cup, the Avs have always underrated defensive ability in their forwards.
Especially their 3rd liners. Lots of Compher/Kerfoot types that they try to turn into poor mans 2nd liners, at the expense of a more well rounded 3rd line that's good defensively.
Sea Eagles
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- Feb 7, 2012
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Kadri is the perfect 2C for us. 4 points in 3 games so far.
110 games, 72 points, plus 1 (over 2 seasons)
17 playoffs, 19 points, plus 2 (over 2 season)
Combined: 91 points, in 127 games (getting up to a point - per game) - 40 of those being goals.
And on a cap his of sub 5M
Gruyeriev
Shut your five hole
- Apr 14, 2021
- 4,437
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I feel like in the early and mid 2000s we had several.
Antti Laaksonen
Steve Konowalchuk
Dan Hinote was still here
To name a few
Gruyeriev
Shut your five hole
- Apr 14, 2021
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I agree. I think a better shut down 3C is what we really need.
Also a 2nd line winger.
Sea Eagles
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If he provides us with grit, aggression and a hard edge I'm happy with that.
I still think his suspension in the playoffs was warranted, the actual "term" of 8 games was a complete joke though.
That, and I also think the NHL Player Safety team lead by a goon who is salty about being cut after 2 games with us
is thoroughly inconsistent. That's all fans want, some fairness and consistency. Landeskog getting 2 games, and the
following getting two minutes, in the same week (please have someone explain this to me) is a complete embarrassment to their organisation :
Foppa2118
Registered User
- Oct 3, 2003
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They wouldn't be completely devoid of defense in the bottom six, they'd always have someone solid.
But for all the Laaksonen's and Konowalchuk's, they had even more guys like Arnason, Battaglia, Kobasew, Kerfoot, Compher, Briere, Parenteau, Yakupov, Colborne, Porter, Agozzino, Hensick, Olver, Kamenev, Skille, Shantz, Cliche, McLean, Palushaj, McAmmond, and Sgarbossa.
Guys that are more on the smaller/softer/offensive side of things, rather than gritty/defense side of things.
It's a theme, especially with the 3rd line, where this organization is often trying to build a second 2nd offensive line, instead of one that's more multi dimensional, and can contribute in other ways than their top six players do.
The biggest flaw this team has throughout the lineup is something AJ has repeatedly pointed out. Plenty of skill, speed, and even size throughout. But there is a stunning lack of hockey sense. And as a result, there are forwards who are either good defensively or offensively, but not both. The only true two-way player on the team IMO is Landeskog. Nuke is the best defensive forward and is capable of getting on hot streaks scoring-wise but for the most part he has no business being on a scoring line. And they currently have a forward in the lineup in Ranta who really compounds that issue.
Not saying they can't win without this lineup, but it can't be understated what a truly good center who could get it done in all three zones consistently could do in this lineup.
It's a shame Kaut looks like he's playing his way out of the organization. If he had panned out he'd be precisely the type of player this lineup desperately needs.
- Aug 25, 2006
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Again I agree with you on Kaut. I always saw him as a Landy-lite who would be perfect on the second line to do what Landy does on the 1st line. Dig for pucks, go to the net, play very good defense to cover for more offensive 2nd line players, etc. Not a real 2nd line caliber player but able to be the 3rd wheel on the 2nd line to do that job. Unfortunately it doesn't look like it will happen on this team if he ever gets there which I seriously doubt now.
What's frustrating is that we know he can be that guy...but the current version is an aimless floater.
- Aug 25, 2006
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I don't watch AHL so maybe somebody can comment on the way he plays on the Eagles. He seems to be doing fine stats-wise at least.
Chi
Chicken or egg? Is he just a floater OR has not getting a fair shot sapped his morale?
Both can be true. The Avs were dumb not to keep him around for the bubble tournament, but even then he still could’ve built on that really good showing the following season, and didn’t.
MarkT
Heretic
- Nov 11, 2017
- 4,019
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Some thoughts on what's been said in this thread recently.
I think Sakic tries to address the defensive weaknesses in the bottom six, but has too much faith in developing in from within as well. I think he genuinely expects Jost, Compher and O'Connor to be those guys for us, and supplements them with the likes of Bellemare, Helm, Calvert and now Maltsev. What he's never managed to address though is the 3C position. It's been a hole in the team for years now and I've yet to see even an attempt to fill it.
Kadri meanwhile was dogshit last year, but so far this season has looked great in my opinion. He's showing consistent effort this year, I haven't noticed any toe drags, and he's actually making an attempt (in his own limited way) to use his various random linemates. Once he gets a consistent line and builds some chemistry I think he'll be fine. He seems like the kind of guy who gets motivated by things like a playoff suspension and an expiring contract. I'd let him stay motivated by that all season, then let him walk so he can be some other team's problem.
Then we get to see if Sakic can solve our center depth issue once and for all.
I think Sakic tries to address the defensive weaknesses in the bottom six, but has too much faith in developing in from within as well. I think he genuinely expects Jost, Compher and O'Connor to be those guys for us, and supplements them with the likes of Bellemare, Helm, Calvert and now Maltsev. What he's never managed to address though is the 3C position. It's been a hole in the team for years now and I've yet to see even an attempt to fill it.
Kadri meanwhile was dogshit last year, but so far this season has looked great in my opinion. He's showing consistent effort this year, I haven't noticed any toe drags, and he's actually making an attempt (in his own limited way) to use his various random linemates. Once he gets a consistent line and builds some chemistry I think he'll be fine. He seems like the kind of guy who gets motivated by things like a playoff suspension and an expiring contract. I'd let him stay motivated by that all season, then let him walk so he can be some other team's problem.
Then we get to see if Sakic can solve our center depth issue once and for all.
MarkT
Heretic
- Nov 11, 2017
- 4,019
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I'm assuming you're talking about Kadri here, but there's two reasons that's unlikely - first is the coaching staff wants a right shot in the bumper position - this Donskoi and now Compher (ideally Kaut gets that spot eventually). Second, Kadri's best asset is his shot, so he should be on the wall in a position to shoot, not the bumper where his stick is going to be constantly tied up.
I’d rather having a shred of skill Trump the Scientology approach to building a power play.
Changed my rating to a 3
We lost a fair amount of players this off-season, he did nothing to replace any of those players with quality. Losing Eichel is a huge loss, especially to Vegas... Even Eichel thought he was going to Colorado. How does Sakic not make an Eichel trade happen?
We lost a fair amount of players this off-season, he did nothing to replace any of those players with quality. Losing Eichel is a huge loss, especially to Vegas... Even Eichel thought he was going to Colorado. How does Sakic not make an Eichel trade happen?
Reparlana
Registered User
More disappointed about Saad's words, losing Saad, and Saad going to the blues.
