Joe Sakic - Record as Colorado Avalanche GM - Part III (Updates in First Post)

[Islay1989]

 

[dahrougem2]

Love Sakic as a player but some of his moves have been hesd scratchers.

He gets rid of Zadorov and Graves. Then is forced to trade one of our best prospects in Helleson and a 2nd for Manson who has been pathetic. Both Z and Graves are 10x the player Manson is.

Then he ships out Barron when Girard probably should have been the one to go.

We had Mackinnon, Duchene, O'Reilly and Stastny down the middle. Had Makar, Byram, Toews, Zadorov, Graves, Cole on D but somehow we are scrambling for Center depth and Defense depth.

Some people really are clueless

 

[JH21]

Some people really are clueless

If you could debate the point you would. But since you can't you have to insult like a child.

 

[dahrougem2]

If you could debate the point you would. But since you can't you have to insult like a child.

Some of his moves have been head scratches? You mean the moves where two of those centres asked for trades and a third did not want to re-sign and instead wanted to go home to St. Louis? Those head scratching moves?

You mean the moves where Nikita Zadorov is still a 3rd pairing defensemen in Calgary? That'd help big time here right? Or how Ian Cole and Ryan Graves were both complete liabilities the year we played a big, heavy team in the playoffs like Dallas? They sure cleared that front of the net and prevented all of those Stars goals right? Ryan Graves sure was fantastic last season when we needed a big, physical presence against Vegas eh?

Think before you post.

 

[JH21]

Some of his moves have been head scratches? You mean the moves where two of those centres asked for trades and a third did not want to re-sign and instead wanted to go home to St. Louis? Those head scratching moves?

You mean the moves where Nikita Zadorov is still a 3rd pairing defensemen in Calgary? That'd help big time here right? Or how Ian Cole and Ryan Graves were both complete liabilities the year we played a big, heavy team in the playoffs like Dallas? They sure cleared that front of the net and prevented all of those Stars goals right? Ryan Graves sure was fantastic last season when we needed a big, physical presence against Vegas eh?

Think before you post.

Graves and Zadorov would be much better than Manson and Girard. We could have kept Z and Graves, still had Helleson and a 2nd and traded Girard for a forward.

Which group would be better?

 

[JH21]

Some of his moves have been head scratches? You mean the moves where two of those centres asked for trades and a third did not want to re-sign and instead wanted to go home to St. Louis? Those head scratching moves?

You mean the moves where Nikita Zadorov is still a 3rd pairing defensemen in Calgary? That'd help big time here right? Or how Ian Cole and Ryan Graves were both complete liabilities the year we played a big, heavy team in the playoffs like Dallas? They sure cleared that front of the net and prevented all of those Stars goals right? Ryan Graves sure was fantastic last season when we needed a big, physical presence against Vegas eh?

Think before you post.

As for O'Reilly and Duchene. Who cares if they asked for trades. We didn't have to trade them. And if he knew Stastny wasn't going to resign then why keep him that year?

We lost O'Reilly, Duchene, Stastny, Zadorov, Graves and Cole and have Byram, Girard and Compher to show for it.

Then because we didn't get anything for those guys he had to trade Barron, Helleson, a 1st and a 2nd for Lehkonen and Manson.

If we would have resigned O'Reilly and kept some of those guys we probably winter Cup instead of St.Louis.

 

[JH21]

Out: O'Reilly, Duchene, Stastny, Saad, Grubauer, Barrie, Zadorov, Graves, Cole, Barron, Helleson, Timmins, two 1st's and four 2nd's.

In: Byram, Kadri, Toews, Girard, Kuemper, Burakovsky, Compher, Lehkonen and Manson

 

[flyfysher]

As for O'Reilly and Duchene. Who cares if they asked for trades. We didn't have to trade them. And if he knew Stastny wasn't going to resign then why keep him that year?

We lost O'Reilly, Duchene, Stastny, Zadorov, Graves and Cole and have Byram, Girard and Compher to show for it.

Then because we didn't get anything for those guys he had to trade Barron, Helleson, a 1st and a 2nd for Lehkonen and Manson.

If we would have resigned O'Reilly and kept some of those guys we probably winter Cup instead of St.Louis.

I completely disagree with your take here and as to Zadorov and Graves as well. Your proposals struck me as being totally unrealistic and impractical.

 

[MaKarter]

Graves and Zadorov would be much better than Manson and Girard. We could have kept Z and Graves, still had Helleson and a 2nd and traded Girard for a forward.

Which group would be better?

How do you keep Zadorov and Graves with the expansion draft?

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Sakic took a team that hit rock bottom and made it into one of the powerhouse teams of the league. Suggesting that he has somehow done a bad job is ridiculous.

 

[JH21]

Sakic took a team that hit rock bottom and made it into one of the powerhouse teams of the league. Suggesting that he has somehow done a bad job is ridiculous.

How many top 5 and 10 picks did he have the luxury of having?

Duchene, Mackinnon, Landeskog, Rantanen, Makar, Byram.

We have basically been a dominant 1 line team formed with those guys.

Other than those guys and the trades for Kadri and Toews what has he done to put this team over the top

And list one of his free agent signings that has worked aside from Nichushkin who was a last chance player? Maybe talk about all the players we have gone after and not one chose us as well.

 

[JH21]

How do you keep Zadorov and Graves with the expansion draft?

Send a pick to Seattle for them to take Donskoi like every other team did.

 

[JH21]

I completely disagree with your take here and as to Zadorov and Graves as well. Your proposals struck me as being totally unrealistic and impractical.

Whats to disagree with? I listed the guys he lost and the guys he brought in.

 

[dahrougem2]

Graves and Zadorov would be much better than Manson and Girard. We could have kept Z and Graves, still had Helleson and a 2nd and traded Girard for a forward.

Which group would be better?

Graves sucks and Zadorov is worse. You're literally one of the only people still championing those two as if they weren't big softies on this team while they played here. Neither of those guys can clear the front of the net any better than mini Sam Girard.

As for O'Reilly and Duchene. Who cares if they asked for trades. We didn't have to trade them. And if he knew Stastny wasn't going to resign then why keep him that year?

We lost O'Reilly, Duchene, Stastny, Zadorov, Graves and Cole and have Byram, Girard and Compher to show for it.

Then because we didn't get anything for those guys he had to trade Barron, Helleson, a 1st and a 2nd for Lehkonen and Manson.

If we would have resigned O'Reilly and kept some of those guys we probably winter Cup instead of St.Louis.

Yeah man, "who cares" if they ask for trades. That's how you run an organization! You force people who don't want to be there to... be there! And then you get a bunch of Paul Stastnys! You'd be great at this!

Stop living in fantasy land.

 

[flyfysher]

Whats to disagree with? I listed the guys he lost and the guys he brought in.

No discussion of context or management of/impact on the cap, patience in building the D and character of the team, etc. Your endorsement of Graves and Zadorov was particularly striking. Hockey IQ is not their strength. Graves’ mediocrity on the Devils is evident. BTW, his +/- rating took a dive on the Devils. At least Zadorov is a physical presence but he totally doesn’t fit into JB’s system. Toews does. Sakic picking up Toews was pretty darn shrewd for two 2nds.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

How many top 5 and 10 picks did he have the luxury of having?

Duchene, Mackinnon, Landeskog, Rantanen, Makar, Byram.

We have basically been a dominant 1 line team formed with those guys.

Other than those guys and the trades for Kadri and Toews what has he done to put this team over the top?

The Avs are terrible at the draft unless its a top pick. Therefore, almost the entire team has been acquired trough trades, free agency or waivers. It's been a very solid effort after Roy left.

Nuke for nothing. Toews for 2nds. Duchene for G + Byram. Kadri trade. Bura for a 2nd + 3rd. Graves for Bigras. Grubauer for a 2nd.....

 

[JH21]

Graves sucks and Zadorov is worse. You're literally one of the only people still championing those two as if they weren't big softies on this team while they played here. Neither of those guys can clear the front of the net any better than mini Sam Girard.

Yeah man, "who cares" if they ask for trades. That's how you run an organization! You force people who don't want to be there to... be there! And then you get a bunch of Paul Stastnys! You'd be great at this!

Stop living in fantasy land.

Just because you say Graves and Zadorov suck doesn't mean it's true.

Regardless, both guys are better than Manson, Girard, JJ, EJ and the rest of the scrubs we are forced to play after Makar and Toews.

 

[JH21]

Not counting O'Reilly or Stastny:

Landeskog- Mackinnon- Rantanen
Nichushkin- Kadri- Burakovsky
Lehkonen- Girard Trade- Newhook
Compher- Sturm- O'Connor
Helm- Cogliano- Aube Kubel

Toews - Makar
Byram - Zadorov
Graves - Cole
* Helleson and our 2nd round pick
*Timmins and our 1st round pick

Grubauer
Francouz

OR:

Landeskog- Mackinnon- Rantanen
Nichushkin- Kadri- Burakovsky
Lehkonen- Compher- Newhook
Helm- Sturm- O'Connor
Cogliano- Aube Kubel

Toews - Makar
Girard - Manson
EJ - JJ
MacDermid

Kuemper
Francouz

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Some of his moves have been head scratches? You mean the moves where two of those centres asked for trades and a third did not want to re-sign and instead wanted to go home to St. Louis? Those head scratching moves?

You mean the moves where Nikita Zadorov is still a 3rd pairing defensemen in Calgary? That'd help big time here right? Or how Ian Cole and Ryan Graves were both complete liabilities the year we played a big, heavy team in the playoffs like Dallas? They sure cleared that front of the net and prevented all of those Stars goals right? Ryan Graves sure was fantastic last season when we needed a big, physical presence against Vegas eh?

Think before you post.

Yeah but give him time...he is still only 26.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

As for O'Reilly and Duchene. Who cares if they asked for trades. We didn't have to trade them. And if he knew Stastny wasn't going to resign then why keep him that year?

We lost O'Reilly, Duchene, Stastny, Zadorov, Graves and Cole and have Byram, Girard and Compher to show for it.

Then because we didn't get anything for those guys he had to trade Barron, Helleson, a 1st and a 2nd for Lehkonen and Manson.

If we would have resigned O'Reilly and kept some of those guys we probably winter Cup instead of St.Louis.

We also have Maltsev and Behrens. Saad for one cup run as well.

Also you seem to forget about the expansion draft.

 

[JH21]

We also have Maltsev and Behrens. Saad for one cup run as well.

Also you seem to forget about the expansion draft.

Who cares about Saad? Sakic gave up Zadorov for him and lost Saad for nothing.

Maltsev. Lmao

Behrens? Sorry if I'm not to excited about another midget on defense.

As for the draft....what exactly was I forgetting about? Sure, we'd lose guy but take one of the multiple 1st's or 2nd's that Sakic traded away and give one to Seattle for them to take Donskoi.

 

[JH21]

Graves sucks and Zadorov is worse. You're literally one of the only people still championing those two as if they weren't big softies on this team while they played here. Neither of those guys can clear the front of the net any better than mini Sam Girard.

Yeah man, "who cares" if they ask for trades. That's how you run an organization! You force people who don't want to be there to... be there! And then you get a bunch of Paul Stastnys! You'd be great at this!

Stop living in fantasy land.

Zadorov and Graves are better than anyone we have on the 3rd pair and arguably Girard as well.

As for the guys who wanted out....if Sakic would have gave them what they deserved they would still be here and we'd probably have a cup or two by now.

 

[dahrougem2]

Zadorov and Graves are better than anyone we have on the 3rd pair and arguably Girard as well.

As for the guys who wanted out....if Sakic would have gave them what they deserved they would still be here and we'd probably have a cup or two by now.

You know there's this thing called the salary cap, right? I know it doesn't exist for you but join us in reality where it does.

And yes, Zadorov and Graves both suck. They're 3rd pairing defensemen who have size and don't use it.

 

[Alienblood]

Send a pick to Seattle for them to take Donskoi like every other team did.

Nobody did that this time
That was Vegas

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Who cares about Saad? Sakic gave up Zadorov for him and lost Saad for nothing.

Maltsev. Lmao

Behrens? Sorry if I'm not to excited about another midget on defense.

As for the draft....what exactly was I forgetting about? Sure, we'd lose guy but take one of the multiple 1st's or 2nd's that Sakic traded away and give one to Seattle for them to take Donskoi.

How the heck are you not a GM by now? It seems to be so easy for you. But if you do give it a go at a GM job please not Colorado, ok? Thanks.