Joaquin Phoenix to play the Joker in standalone movie

[McGhostbuster]

Your allowed to sympathise with somebody that's been through something traumatic that messes with there mental state, even if they go on to do something truly horrific

If we went with your idea we'd never learn anything, perhaps if people see somebody going through abuse, bullying and what being ostracized does to a person and their mental state they will be a bit more empathetic in the future

I agree with your first point, but I felt the movie almost pushed the sympathy and the cheering for him to seek revenge. It should have stopped after the trauma, which would have been extremely difficult.

 

[Kiwi]

I agree with your first point, but I felt the movie almost pushed the sympathy and the cheering for him to seek revenge. It should have stopped after the trauma, which would have been extremely difficult.

The Joker is a bad man

If your going to do an origin story about how and why he's become what he is that involves showing the trauma he's been through its going to be humanizing, that's just a natural human reaction to anybody being mistreated

The movie would have lost something without the ending, chopping it off halfway would have been bad filmmaking imo

 

[blueandgoldguy]

Personally, my take after the ending was that

Spoiler

Everything after he gets picked up by the police for shooting Murray, up until him meeting with and killing the social worker, is in his head. We saw from his relationship fantasy that hes capable of imagining scenarios that bring him joy. I think while hes in the cop car he imagines it being hit and him surviving in order to "transform" officially, he just uses his mind as an outlet to complete that transformation. It all seems too perfect in a sense, and I think that's why hes back in Arkham at the end, because in reality he was caught, booked and sent there, or else why show an escape from police and then have him be caught.

The reason I hesitate to believe the theory that the WHOLE movie is in his head, is because it seems odd that if it's in his head the whole time, why let the audience know that he was fantasizing about his relationship with Sophie. I feel like that was intentional in making the audience aware that he picks and chooses his fantasies to somewhat feed his desires. If it was his imagination the entire movie, it would be odd for him to essentially out himself in his own fantasy about being in a fake relationship.

Oooooh I know. A fantasy within a fantasy. Inception: Joker edition.

 

[Adam Warlock]

I was just watching some breakdowns on youtube, and I had a question for those who have seen it:

Spoiler

When he goes into Sophies apartment and it is revealed their whole relationship was in his head...there is obvious tension because it leaves you wondering "is he going to do it? is he going to kill her/her daughter?" It then cuts to him in his apartment with sirens in the background...which to my implied that he did kill them. I thought that was brilliantly done...they didn't need a gory scene just a slight hint that he went that far. I found it so chilling.

However...the videos I watched seemed to think he did not kill them. Someone I talked to didn't think he did either. Did I read that scene wrong?

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

I was just watching some breakdowns on youtube, and I had a question for those who have seen it:

Spoiler

When he goes into Sophies apartment and it is revealed their whole relationship was in his head...there is obvious tension because it leaves you wondering "is he going to do it? is he going to kill her/her daughter?" It then cuts to him in his apartment with sirens in the background...which to my implied that he did kill them. I thought that was brilliantly done...they didn't need a gory scene just a slight hint that he went that far. I found it so chilling.

However...the videos I watched seemed to think he did not kill them. Someone I talked to didn't think he did either. Did I read that scene wrong?

They leave it open for interpretation on purpose, I believe. But my belief is that your original thought is correct.

 

[K Fleur]

I saw it last night.

I don’t want to be prisoner of the moment but at the same time I think that might be the best live action Joker I’ve ever seen. Even better than Heath Ledger’s.

 

[Tkachuk4MVP]

I was just watching some breakdowns on youtube, and I had a question for those who have seen it:

Spoiler

When he goes into Sophies apartment and it is revealed their whole relationship was in his head...there is obvious tension because it leaves you wondering "is he going to do it? is he going to kill her/her daughter?" It then cuts to him in his apartment with sirens in the background...which to my implied that he did kill them. I thought that was brilliantly done...they didn't need a gory scene just a slight hint that he went that far. I found it so chilling.

However...the videos I watched seemed to think he did not kill them. Someone I talked to didn't think he did either. Did I read that scene wrong?

Spoiler

I don't think he did because the movie makes it clear he has a soft spot for children. His job at the hospital, not strangling Alfred in front of Bruce, etc. So when Sophie tells him her daughter's there (and you can see his visible reaction upon hearing that), it's more likely that he left without harming her for the sake of her daughter.

 

[kihei]

Leto Joker looks especially bad when directly contrasted against a good Joker.

Leto seems like the kind of guy who spends his life throwing hissy fits of one kind or another,

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

Leto seems like the kind of guy who spends his life throwing hissy fits of one kind or another,

I wish that was the worst thing about the guy.

 

[PromisedLand]

Personally, my take after the ending was that

Spoiler

Everything after he gets picked up by the police for shooting Murray, up until him meeting with and killing the social worker, is in his head. We saw from his relationship fantasy that hes capable of imagining scenarios that bring him joy. I think while hes in the cop car he imagines it being hit and him surviving in order to "transform" officially, he just uses his mind as an outlet to complete that transformation. It all seems too perfect in a sense, and I think that's why hes back in Arkham at the end, because in reality he was caught, booked and sent there, or else why show an escape from police and then have him be caught.

The reason I hesitate to believe the theory that the WHOLE movie is in his head, is because it seems odd that if it's in his head the whole time, why let the audience know that he was fantasizing about his relationship with Sophie. I feel like that was intentional in making the audience aware that he picks and chooses his fantasies to somewhat feed his desires. If it was his imagination the entire movie, it would be odd for him to essentially out himself in his own fantasy about being in a fake relationship.

My take is a bit different and it is mostly because of the very last scene.

Spoiler

in the end when he says "you wouldn't get the joke" and laughs; all the imaginations are the lies he concocted to tell the psychiatrist to get some sympathy, he painted himself as a loner who was forced into the situation; the story is basically from Joker's POV and all of those are lies.

After all in everybody's own mind they are hero of their own story no matter how sick and twisted; they are always right (look at the hockey posts on these boards ).

I think Joker purposely lied about relationship and having imagined the relationship because of lack of medicine to the lady (psychiatrist) who was sitting in front of him at the end.

He tried to get sympathy from everyone (purpose of the movie) to justify his actions and succeeded IMO. By the end, most people did feel sorry for the character of Arthur Flek -> Joker laughs; when asked what he is laughing about he says "you wouldn't get the joke"

 

[x Tame Impala]

This is my main issue. Knowing the stuff Joker has done in comics or other media, he simply is not a character that should be sympathized or humanized.

This isn’t a culmination of all past Jokers. This is an entirely separate interpretation of the Joker (and mental health) by Phillips. It may even be a completely stand alone movie.

Also, for the various posters agreeing with your sentiment...humanizing something awful doesn’t mean it’s being condoned or sympathized with. We’re given empathy here with this film. Every single bad thing Arthur does is made to look as bad/immoral as it should be.

 

[x Tame Impala]

I don’t particularly care about any of the “did it just happen in his head” stuff. I think most of it did actually happen

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

 

[discostu]

I was waiting to see where the final number lands, as I think it could still fall a bit short of $60M, but even if it does, it's a phenomenal second weekend, and signals that this is going to he doing well for a while. It guarantees $300M at the domestic box office.

The debate around this movie has been obnoxious in a lot of ways, but it's generated conversation and hype, and clearly generating strong word of mouth.

 

[sdf]

lol it looks like a meaningless story pretending to be a masterpiece

 

[ThePhoenixx]

lol it looks like a meaningless story pretending to be a masterpiece

People are spending pretend money, and then pretending they like it.

Mass delusion. Seems appropriate.

 

[The Shadow]

lol it looks like a meaningless story pretending to be a masterpiece

I watched it twice because I pretended to like it so much the first time I wanted to pretend to like it again

 

[Kiwi]

I was waiting to see where the final number lands, as I think it could still fall a bit short of $60M, but even if it does, it's a phenomenal second weekend, and signals that this is going to he doing well for a while. It guarantees $300M at the domestic box office.

The debate around this movie has been obnoxious in a lot of ways, but it's generated conversation and hype, and clearly generating strong word of mouth.

That's not a good thing

If politicizing films and entertainment results in box office revenue it does incentivise people to climb into the culture war stuff with even more glee with ever more devisive results within society

That goes for the artists, studios and media

 

[discostu]

That's not a good thing

If politicizing films and entertainment results in box office revenue it does incentivise people to climb into the culture war stuff with even more glee with ever more devisive results within society

That goes for the artists, studios and media

I don't believe it's making its money because of the controversy. It's helped drawing attention to it, but the movie is clearly resonating with its core audience. The hype helped draws a big initial audience. Word of mouth seems to be doing the rest.

Any studio that tries to generate hype based on controversy without a movie that people are genuinely passionate about isn't likely to see success.

If there's a lesson that is learned from this is that a movie doesn't have to be universally beloved to break out like this. I think the negative reactions to this film are primarily genuine. But, the people who loved it, seem to really love it.

 

[Kiwi]

I don't believe it's making its money because of the controversy. It's helped drawing attention to it, but the movie is clearly resonating with its core audience. The hype helped draws a big initial audience. Word of mouth seems to be doing the rest.

Any studio that tries to generate hype based on controversy without a movie that people are genuinely passionate about isn't likely to see success.

If there's a lesson that is learned from this is that a movie doesn't have to be universally beloved to break out like this. I think the negative reactions to this film are primarily genuine. But, the people who loved it, seem to really love it.

I agree with most of your points until you got to The point where you wrote that the negative reactions to the film are primarily genuine

I think very little of the outrage from the reviewers and far left types surrounding the movie was genuine

I don't consider manufactured outrage genuine

I didn't when I was assured first person shooter video games make people into mass shooters, rap music turned people into gun toting gangster wannabes, metal music made you want to commit suicide or be a mass shooter, swearing on tv made you into a heathen, nudity on tv made you a misogynistic heathen, movies made you into a serial killer (Natural Born Killers)

Same fake outrage just different people doing it

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Leto Joker looks especially bad when directly contrasted against a good Joker.

Still haven't seen the new Joker yet but Leto's take on the character was objectively awful.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Random thoughts.

Origin comic book movies are usually the best, the sequels rarely feature any amount of character development.

I found Joker to be much more like The King of Comedy than Taxi Driver.

Hard to believe Joaquin Phoenix is only 44, seems like he's been around forever.

Glenn Fleshler is terrific & menacing in everything.

If Zazie Beetz isn't the coolest name ever, I'd like to know what is.

 

[sufferer]

Spoiler

Do you think Arthur decided to kill Murray after having done so to Randall since it was another retribution or was it more in the heat of the moment since he was only rehearsing his own suicide before then?

 

[SwivelSchwartz]

Random thoughts.

Origin comic book movies are usually the best, the sequels rarely feature any amount of character development.

I found Joker to be much more like The King of Comedy than Taxi Driver.

Hard to believe Joaquin Phoenix is only 44, seems like he's been around forever.

Glenn Fleshler is terrific & menacing in everything.

If Zazie Beetz isn't the coolest name ever, I'd like to know what is.

I’d argue it’s not even the coolest name in your post

 

[Hammettf2b]

Thought it was just meh. Too slow for my liking. I get character development but I wan't to see The Joker raising hell.