Joaquin Phoenix to play the Joker in standalone movie

[PK Cronin]

I enjoyed the movie and Phoenix did a great job. It's not quite as good as many are proclaiming, but still really strong. I don't understand the issues anyone has with it from a mental health standpoint. We've seen tons of movies with crazy people doing horrific things and this really isn't any different other than you know it's a comic book character. Really enjoyed the music and the cinematography.

Spoiler

Was anyone really surprised that the girlfriend scenario wasn't real? It was pretty obvious from the start that it wasn't actually happening.

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

I enjoyed the movie and Phoenix did a great job. It's not quite as good as many are proclaiming, but still really strong. I don't understand the issues anyone has with it from a mental health standpoint. We've seen tons of movies with crazy people doing horrific things and this really isn't any different other than you know it's a comic book character. Really enjoyed the music and the cinematography.

Spoiler

Was anyone really surprised that the girlfriend scenario wasn't real? It was pretty obvious from the start that it wasn't actually happening.

Spoiler

I thought it was kind of odd while I was watching it, but it still surprised me for some reason. After it happened, though, I was like "duh, well I guess that was pretty obvious."

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Origin comic book movies are usually the best, the sequels rarely feature any amount of character development.

Honestly I've found that to be the case...pretty much never. Once you get the tedious origin story stuff out of the way the characters can be themselves and the story can take off. Batman Begins < Dark Knight. Spider-Man < Spider-Man 2. Superman < Superman 2. X-Men < X-Men United. I personally thought the 2nd Deadpool was better than the first, etc etc.

To be fair, I'm not especially big on superhero movies so my view is far from comprehensive but I've most often found the 1st movie has to run through the boilerplate origin story stuff, the 2nd is usually the best, the 3rd is generally weaker and shows everything going downhill, and the 4th and/or 5th are usually reboots.

 

[Thucydides]

Just came out of the theatre an hour ago. Really enjoyed the movie - Joaquin Phoenix is the arguably one of the best actors of our generation.

i remember seeing him with Cage in 8mm all those years ago and thought he killed that role.

this was the first joker comic book movie I’ve ever watched . what should i watch next ? The dark knight ?

 

[Ozz]

Just came out of the theatre an hour ago. Really enjoyed the movie - Joaquin Phoenix is the arguably one of the best actors of our generation.

i remember seeing him with Cage in 8mm all those years ago and thought he killed that role.

this was the first joker comic book movie I’ve ever watched . what should i watch next ? The dark knight ?

I would guess Batman Begins is a good place to start if you're going for that trilogy...

 

[kihei]

Well hopefully, if anything, this movie helps people be more empathetic with those that have mental illnesses and/or don’t fit in. If there’s an overarching message to this movie, I think it would have to be that.

I always get upset when arch-villains, fictional and real life, are called "monsters" which I think always lets them and us off the hook. The scary thing about the Hitlers and Stalins and Pinochets is they are human and represent in extremis what some of us are capable of. In that sense acknowledging their humanity should cause us to ask a lot of questions. But do I feel empathy for these types, much less sympathy? I acknowledge they are human, but that's as far as I go. Absolutely it is necessary and right to feel empathy for the people whose lives have been hell for one reason or another and who need psychological help and can neither find it nor afford it. However, someone who goes on a killing spree or tortures kids or rapes women (or men) or engages in genocide or makes people "disappear", that person forfeits all right to empathy and sympathy regardless of how they were shaped by forces beyond their control. To suggest, as the director seems to, that the Joker (and by extension his ilk) deserves our sympathy because he had a harsh life is at best disingenuous, at worst socially irresponsible.

I'd be amazed whether most viewers walk out of that movie feeling greater empathy for tortured souls, though. Roger Ebert once said that movies are engines for building empathy, which I think is true, though in this case I would argue The Joker is a very tiny engine.

 

[Jussi]

Just came out of the theatre an hour ago. Really enjoyed the movie - Joaquin Phoenix is the arguably one of the best actors of our generation.

i remember seeing him with Cage in 8mm all those years ago and thought he killed that role.

this was the first joker comic book movie I’ve ever watched . what should i watch next ? The dark knight ?

1966 Batman movie.

 

[discostu]

I saw this last night. Didn't think I'd makes it out to the theatres, but, I think the word of mouth I was hearing was strong enough that I felt I should give it a theatre viewing.

I put it in the good, not great category.

My biggest concern that this movie was that there seemed to be a lot of potential to make a bad film. If you get the empathy vs condemnation balance wrong, or get too predictable, it could really feel like a chore. I feel there was area for improvement there, but, for the most part, Phillips found the balance.

I think the film is complex enough that it engages reasonable debate.

I'd like to see Phillips tackle a serious project outside of a safe franchise though. I feel like we didn't get a strong perspective, in part because of how high profile the film was. He's made a boatload for the studio on this one, and I'd like to see Warners reward that with a follow up.

 

[Papa Francouz]

It's not a good Joker movie, but it's a good movie regardless. Thought the cinematography and the score were all great. Phoenix killed it in his role.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I enjoyed the movie and Phoenix did a great job. It's not quite as good as many are proclaiming, but still really strong. I don't understand the issues anyone has with it from a mental health standpoint. We've seen tons of movies with crazy people doing horrific things and this really isn't any different other than you know it's a comic book character. Really enjoyed the music and the cinematography.

Spoiler

Was anyone really surprised that the girlfriend scenario wasn't real? It was pretty obvious from the start that it wasn't actually happening.

I was shocked with how that was presented and thus very pleased with the ultimate result.

 

[Jussi]

JOKER Was Considered Such A Risk By Warner Bros., They Split Production Costs...And Now Have To Split Profits!

 

[MMC]

Spoiler

So him going to meet Murray the first time wasn't real?

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

Spoiler

So him going to meet Murray the first time wasn't real?

Correct.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

This was an odd one for me. Went in pretty intrigued with the whole concept. I think I now know where my line for “gritty” and “realistic” comic book movies is. And Joker steps over it.

I appreciate the effort, especially from Phoenix and his lovingly lit ribcage, but I don’t think the movie works either as a comic book movie or as a regular movie. I think the handful of overt Batman references actually undermine the far more grounded reality the movie establishes. It hints at a more fantastical (comic book) world in the future that just doesn’t jibe with the grit and grime that’s otherwise there. If you strip that away — the element that ostensibly is making the movie interesting and unique — you’re left with a flimsy Taxi Driver rehash. That feels pretty unnecessary given we already have a Taxi Driver set in the same time and (basically) place. This is a comic book character cosplaying as a pseudo-Travis Bickle (though Bickle actually had more of a POV). And that just didn’t work for me.

Society and mental illness, ultimately, weren’t enough of a compelling foil (or villain, if you will) to Arthur, which made Joker almost shockingly dull for some stretches for me. I’m not sure the movie had anything interesting or noteworthy to say on the topics of society or mental illness either that hasn’t been better handled by the likes of, say, let’s pick three movies at random here — Taxi Driver, Network or King of Comedy.

At my kindest point I’ll say it’s an interesting idea and a noble effort with a good performance at its heart. Didn’t really add up to much for me personally though.

Edit: I'm probably only making this association because I watched the movie I'm going to reference recently but there's a bit of a dark Being There vibe going on toward the end in that the lead character is ultimately a bit of a blank with no real belief -- but those around them insist on interpreting and placing greater meaning on their actions and words.

 

[End on a Hinote]

Spoiler

Was anyone really surprised that the girlfriend scenario wasn't real? It was pretty obvious from the start that it wasn't actually happening.

Spoiler

I was naive and thought it was odd when they first got together and thinking there is no way even an average Joe guy could get with a woman that easily, nevermind a guy like Arthur. But I'm a bit of an over thinker and thought it was real due to artistic reasons that Todd Phillip's may have done for the film. Like her being just as deranged as he was and her becoming Harley Quinn in a possible sequel or something.

But after it was revealed that it never happened I realized it was pretty much common sense.

 

[zombie kopitar]

Spoiler

I was naive and thought it was odd when they first got together and thinking there is no way even an average Joe guy could get with a woman that easily, nevermind a guy like Arthur. But I'm a bit of an over thinker and thought it was real due to artistic reasons that Todd Phillip's may have done for the film. Like her being just as deranged as he was and her becoming Harley Quinn in a possible sequel or something.

But after it was revealed that it never happened I realized it was pretty much common sense.

Spoiler

yeah i had the same impression that maybeee she was being set up as some sort of Harley Quinn type figure. I feel that was sort of the intention

I enjoyed the movie, the criticism/hype was kind of ridiculous . It makes some cheeky political statements.
And so what if it's like Taxi Driver?? All art is imitated in some form... and it's a piece of work that the majority of those going to see the movie wont be all that familiar with anyway.

I'm mostly interested to see if it gets any love for award nominations. It's sort of like the Chapelle special where it seems industry critics are afraid to praise it, but it's obviously a well executed piece of work.

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

Spoiler

yeah i had the same impression that maybeee she was being set up as some sort of Harley Quinn type figure. I feel that was sort of the intention

I enjoyed the movie, the criticism/hype was kind of ridiculous . It makes some cheeky political statements.
And so what if it's like Taxi Driver?? All art is imitated in some form... and it's a piece of work that the majority of those going to see the movie wont be all that familiar with anyway.

I'm mostly interested to see if it gets any love for award nominations. It's sort of like the Chapelle special where it seems industry critics are afraid to praise it, but it's obviously a well executed piece of work.

I get where you're going with that last sentence, but it's not totally true. Joker has gotten much more critical praise than the Chapelle special. Has decently resulted in some mixed opinions, but Joker has gotten a lot better reviews.

 

[RobBrown4PM]

Amazing movie, right there with TDK as the best comic book movie ever.

And Phoenix, just wow. The guy hit it out of the ball park. When DC gets its shit right, marvel is left a million light years behind.

 

[sdf]

It's not a good Joker movie, but it's a good movie regardless. Thought the cinematography and the score were all great. Phoenix killed it in his role.

lol great cinematography, great score and acting, and a rather meaningless plot that has nothing worth saying or showing that made everything else also f***ing pointless

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

Amazing movie, right there with TDK as the best comic book movie ever.

And Phoenix, just wow. The guy hit it out of the ball park. When DC gets its **** right, marvel is left a million light years behind.

But you know DC is a million light years behind overall because anytime they have a good time, people always have to try to compare it to Marvel. Even though they’re totally different.

Why can’t people just enjoy both? I love Marvel but Joker is still my favorite movie of the year, and I can say that without throwing a jab at one or the other!

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

Spoiler

yeah i had the same impression that maybeee she was being set up as some sort of Harley Quinn type figure. I feel that was sort of the intention

I enjoyed the movie, the criticism/hype was kind of ridiculous . It makes some cheeky political statements.
And so what if it's like Taxi Driver?? All art is imitated in some form... and it's a piece of work that the majority of those going to see the movie wont be all that familiar with anyway.

I'm mostly interested to see if it gets any love for award nominations. It's sort of like the Chapelle special where it seems industry critics are afraid to praise it, but it's obviously a well executed piece of work.

I don't mind that it is so openly influenced by Taxi Driver. Actually thought it was an interesting idea ... I just don't think the end result really worked for me.

 

[K Fleur]

But you know DC is a million light years behind overall because anytime they have a good time, people always have to try to compare it to Marvel. Even though they’re totally different.

Why can’t people just enjoy both? I love Marvel but Joker is still my favorite movie of the year, and I can say that without throwing a jab at one or the other!

This is big coming from a Marvel fanboy

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

This is big coming from a Marvel fanboy

Haha! But I mean that’s my point.. I don’t get why it needs to be a competition for everyone. I love marvel, DC, indie movies, etc. It’s okay to enjoy it all!

 

[K Fleur]

Haha! But I mean that’s my point.. I don’t get why it needs to be a competition for everyone. I love marvel, DC, indie movies, etc. It’s okay to enjoy it all!

yeah I’m totally with you. Just giving you a hard time. Especially since the Comic Book thread can basically be summarized these days by you giving Marvel recommendations and me DC ones.

 

[Trap Jesus]

Overall I thought it was really solid. It took a while to warm up to because a lot of the stuff felt ham-fisted. Like the whole opening sequence sucked because it just felt so on-the-nose, the kids literally hit him over the head with cruelty and it just kind of makes you roll your eyes. One of the things that I always hated about Batman movies is that despite them having a darker and grittier tone, the villains or thugs (or in this case just people that Arthur encounters) just have such a comically over-the-top portrayal. It's just like everyone is despicable and the worst person of all time, and it takes you out of it when other things come across more grounded. I think that aspect comes back into play when

Spoiler

the Joker's actions start inciting riots. It just feels like a big jump.

Those are really the only complaints though. What everyone is saying about Phoenix's performance is completely accurate in my opinion. This really is a powerhouse acting performance, just absolutely mesmerizing and despite the script being shallow in certain aspects he always finds a way to elevate. The physicality of it, the nuance of how he changes, everything is just so perfectly handled. People trying to say Ledger was better is just hilarious IMO. It's not even remotely comparable.

I also think Phillips surprised me a bit here. Don't think it was anything amazing on his part but definitely solid most of the way through. There was some absolutely excellent humor in here and they used JUST the right amount of violence to the point where it was extremely effective when they did. The scene where

Spoiler

he kills his old co-worker in his apartment and makes a joke out of scaring the little person was just amazing. I laughed so unbelievably hard at that whole sequence even though it worked on a more disturbing level as well.

Also the scene where

Spoiler

He's at the comedy club and just straight up does not understand what people find funny even though he's trying so hard to was really impactful.