GDT: Jim's House of Horrors XI | Pens fail to close deal with Desjardins

[Michael8771*]

The Penguins DID offer Willie Desjardins a 3-yr deal. FOR SURE. Not 2. Three. So term should not have been a factor.

https://twitter.com/MarkMaddenX/statuses/480178349310881792


There is more on Madden's twitter and i'm new embedding twitter quotes, but this made me feel a little better. Maybe White Board Willie just wanted to be in Vancouver? Who knows for real?

I heard a couple reports that WD wanted four years, but who knows. IF we did offer three, then I guess the pens are less at fault then I suspected. Still, it's coming from MM so I'm still skeptical.

 

[Waffle Fries]

The guy from Portland? He knows Pouliot and can develop him and the other young guys

That's him. As both the GM and coach of Portland, I can see him falling into JR's description.

Reading JR's quotes, and going off of what Friedman said, it seems that a big reason for that fallout was that WD wanted to keep his options open with Vancouver. I think JR wants someone who is really passionate about being the Penguins head coach, not just a head coach.

 

[RobRossi]

Hey guys, have you ever thought that maybe the pens did give the term and money Willie wanted, but just maybe he doesnt want to coach this team? Theres a lot of pressure coaching here and maybe a safe job in Vancouver where he prolly can make a couple mistakes seems more appealing.

 

[pensfan71]

That's him. As both the GM and coach of Portland, I can see him falling into JR's description.

Reading JR's quotes, and going off of what Friedman said, it seems that a big reason for that fallout was that WD wanted to keep his options open with Vancouver. I think JR wants someone who is really passionate about being the Penguins head coach, not just a head coach.

Someone teach JR how to use a phone so he can get on it with Pouliot to get him here

 

[ImporterExporter]

This team will never win a Cup in the Crosby/Malkin era and i dare to say as long as the *******s running the team (cough, Moorehouse, cough) are here, you'll never see a Cup back in the Burgh, period.

How anyone at this point can just go with it, is beyond comprehension. Coaches don't want to put up with meddling *******s who have no hockey background and an obvious control/superiority complex. Then on top of it, you have star players who don't want to be held accountable for their actions.

It ain't hard to see why coaches simply want to go in another direction. It ain't worth the hassle and drama that obviously infests the entire team/org.

 

[Darth Vitale]

The Penguins DID offer Willie Desjardins a 3-yr deal. FOR SURE. Not 2.

I'm not taking Madden's word for anything, and neither should any of you. The guy is not above making **** up. Did he name a source? No, of course he didn't.

By the way, what's the difference? So we wanted 3 and he wanted 4... now it's a good idea to let him go even though we think he's the right guy? F-ing stupid any way you slice it unless he asked for something ridiculous like 6 years and big dollars per. I mean it still has no impact on team operations but from an arrogance standpoint in that case I could see why we wouldn't be impress.

 

[mrzeigler]

Anyone know what Pierre Creamer is up to these days?

One more thing that Cotsonika could have put under the "why it might not be as attractive job as people otherwise might think" is that the coach is going to have something like 15 bosses. Moorehouse, Rutherford, Botterill, Guerin, Fitzgerald, buckle-up baby, kid with painted-on playoff beard, foam-finger guy, etc.

So to recap, the list of reasons why someone who isn't desperate would think twice about this job:
* The last coach, who happened to win a Stanley Cup with this team, was left twisting in the wind and prevented from seeking job opportunities in a timely manner.
* The dreamy Mike Babcock will be available one year from now.
* The new GM directly contradicted management's statement about the firing of the previous coach being entirely up to the new GM.
* The new GM has said on the record he doesn't expect to be here more than 3 years, so even if being "his 2nd-choice guy" is a good thing, there likely will be a new GM to decide if you get another contract ... if you make it past your first year.
* The team reportedly is being stingy with the length of contract it's offering.
* The coach will have at least four guys in management meddling to some degree.
* The team and its friends in the media have begun an aggressive campaign to thrust Rick Tochett upon the fans and new coach. (Mention gambling and Gretzky's wife to any of the Pens' media defenders and they will stab you with a butterfly knife.) The next coach will be saddled with at least one assistant (who is close personal friend with and a former linemate of one of the owners) not of his choosing.
* Ownership has said it "wasted" a year of Crosby & Malkin's prime, so it already has established that playoff failure is intolerable.

Take it from me — as someone who may be evaluating open job positions, myself — this situation has "toxic" written all over it. Yes, the talented roster will entice candidates, but when they consider job security and expectations, there are a lot of reasons to not rush in.

 

[Michael8771*]

Hey guys, have you ever thought that maybe the pens did give the term and money Willie wanted, but just maybe he doesnt want to coach this team? Theres a lot of pressure coaching here and maybe a safe job in Vancouver where he prolly can make a couple mistakes seems more appealing.

If that's the case then why fly here immediately after a phone interview? That doesn't make any sense. And, if you indeed want to use the pens for leverage, why not go to VAN FIRST and have the Pens waiting in the wings. That'll likely drive up his price more than taking the Pens out of the equation first.

 

[WayneSid9987]

I really think WD had his sights on Vancouver anyway. He did JR the courtesy of flying in and meeting face to face after JR was in a pickle after losing out on Peters.

So really, the Pens only lost out on Peters, in my mind.

 

[Darth Vitale]

Hey guys, have you ever thought that maybe the pens did give the term and money Willie wanted, but just maybe he doesnt want to coach this team? Theres a lot of pressure coaching here and maybe a safe job in Vancouver where he prolly can make a couple mistakes seems more appealing.

If you're really Rob Rossi, please leave this board immediately.

Also I recommend this for summer reading:

...and step away from the Twitter and stop making stuff up.

 

[Michael8771*]

I really think WD had his sights on Vancouver anyway. He did JR the courtesy of flying in and meeting face to face after JR was in a pickle after losing out on Peters.

So really, the Pens only lost out on Peters, in my mind.

But why would he extend the guy a courtesy like that. I don't believe JR and he had a prior working r ship. I have to believe he wouldn't fly here unless he was interested. I know I wouldn't.

 

[SaucyNavel]

Turn of events, Willy D signs in Florida tomorrow.

 

[RobRossi]

If that's the case then why fly here immediately after a phone interview? That doesn't make any sense. And, if you indeed want to use the pens for leverage, why not go to VAN FIRST and have the Pens waiting in the wings. That'll likely drive up his price more than taking the Pens out of the equation first.

Look, I really dont know.

Maybe when Willie got there things were all rosy and then they got down to the nitty gritty like talking about hockey schematics and that changed his mind?

My post was just a take of the situation and trying to cool people down, offering a new way to look at it, cause its getting a little heated in this thread, believe it or not.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

We go through the grieving process almost every day here.

If The Groundskeeper wanted to be in Vancouver he wanted to be in Vancouver. Shades of Shero not accepting or realizing that Parise wanted to be in Minnesota, though.

 

[Darth Vitale]

Look, I really dont know.

We're aware of that.

 

[WayneSid9987]

We're aware of that.

 

[RobRossi]

If you're really Rob Rossi, please leave this board immediately.

Also I recommend this for summer reading:

...and step away from the Twitter and stop making stuff up.

Of course im not Robbie Rosie, i absolutely detest the man and the fact he has a career in sports "journalism" befuddles me

But the idea of being rob on this board was funny, a sort of in joke here, and it genuinely surprised me no one has taken the name

 

[Darth Vitale]

Of course im not Robbie Rosie, i absolutely detest the man

I like you better already. Stick around.

(Although you do have an eerily similar speech pattern, which is disconcerting. You used detest and befuddles in the same sentence. Are you sure you're not him?)

 

[Michael8771*]

Look, I really dont know.

Maybe when Willie got there things were all rosy and then they got down to the nitty gritty like talking about hockey schematics and that changed his mind?

My post was just a take of the situation and trying to cool people down, offering a new way to look at it, cause its getting a little heated in this thread, believe it or not.

I've heard that WD wanted four years and pick of a top assistant. Those were the two stumbling blocks. I am not sure of that but it seems very much a possibility. I believe he did want the job, but those two sticking points couldn't be hammered out. No way I believe he came here as just a courtesy. Again that's nonsensical.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

We're aware of that.

Real Rob Rossi would never admit to not knowing something.

I really, really, really hope he's seen this place.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Someone teach JR how to use a phone so he can get on it with Pouliot to get him here

He would be an interesting choice for sure. His system is what we'd like. He has a Masters Degree in Coaching Science for whatever that's worth.

At this point if we can steal Boucher from Bern he's my top choice. I think Renney and Johnston could both be solid pick-ups as well. Even if we just promote Hynes, I'll be satisfied.

I'm really torn on Ulf. I think it could go either way with him. Someone like Renney is a safer choice, but Ulf is pretty risky in my opinion.

I'm not taking Madden's word for anything, and neither should any of you. The guy is not above making **** up. Did he name a source? No, of course he didn't.

By the way, what's the difference? So we wanted 3 and he wanted 4... now it's a good idea to let him go even though we think he's the right guy? F-ing stupid any way you slice it unless he asked for something ridiculous like 6 years and big dollars per. I mean it still has no impact on team operations but from an arrogance standpoint in that case I could see why we wouldn't be impress.

Madden isn't less reliable than anyone else who directly mentioned term. I wouldn't listen to any of it.

Like I (and others have) said above, listening to Friedman and JR, I think it was about Willie not being totally committed to the team more than anything else.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

The Penguins DID offer Willie Desjardins a 3-yr deal. FOR SURE. Not 2. Three. So term should not have been a factor.

https://twitter.com/MarkMaddenX/statuses/480178349310881792


There is more on Madden's twitter and i'm new embedding twitter quotes, but this made me feel a little better. Maybe White Board Willie just wanted to be in Vancouver? Who knows for real?

Even were that true, that is hardly comforting. In fact that is worse. It means that five GM's/coaching interviews said thanks but no thanks to the same offer elsewhere from, face it, teams who were much further away from a potential cup. Teams that very well may never get to where the Pens are now.

What does that say about how our organization is viewed by potential hires?

It reminds me of the IRS scandal thing. 'Oh no, we were not abusing our power. Instead we were running our entire operation on Commodore 64's and tape backups that we recycled every six months.'

Yeah that makes me feel so much better.

Same here. 'Oh no, we offered them the same term. They just would rather take their chances on at least a five year rebuild in Vancouver, Carolina or Florida than compete for a cup with the two best players in the world.'

Ok, now that has been cleared up I feel just great.

 

[WayneSid9987]

I agree with Ulf being risky.
Would love him as an assistant working with the D-core(never happen) but not super hyped about him being the HC.

 

[Waffle Fries]

Here are the other tweets from Madden's twitter Rob was referencing.

Mark Madden ‏@MarkMaddenX
Jim Rutherford& Sid had a long meeting in LA. Sid is training in LA. So new GM& capt have not been incommunicado as reported.
https://twitter.com/MarkMaddenX/status/480179038183772160

Mark Madden ‏@MarkMaddenX
Ownership wanted Tocchet 2b an asst last yr. Shero vetoed. Wanted2 preserve get-along gang. Seen as a big failing by Shero.
https://twitter.com/MarkMaddenX/status/480179404853624833


I don't think he's right about Tocchet. Why would Shero veto Tocchet but not Martin?

 

[Darth Vitale]

I dunno to me there are few metrics of less importance in sports management than "coaching term". Because almost none of them last the full term, and it never counts against what's available for the team and we have a billionaire owner in this case (not that uncommon anymore). All coaching contracts ought to say "we're hiring you for five years and will probably fire you in two, but will pay you X% anyway".