Post-Game Talk: Jimmy Howard proves the giving season is still upon us

HockeyinHD

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Jun 18, 2006
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For the record, I am on board with that.

Gotta give to get.

Well sure... but that means you're talking about trading Z, Datsyuk or Tatar because Nyquist and Abdelkader are signed. Which means you're pretty much saying trade Tatar.

So, how would that work? If the problem is offense, what does Detroit have to add to move Tatar out and get a better offensive option back, or what do they have to do to move him out and bring a legit #1 dman back instead?

And even if any of those moves are possible, is now the time to make it? When the team still has Franzen on the books and Z on the books and Howard on the books?

Maybe for us, perhaps it is time... but we know the organization has a much different view on the importance of the playoff streak, considering that's why they burned Jarnkrok and a 2 for Legwand.
 

ArGarBarGar

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Well sure... but that means you're talking about trading Z, Datsyuk or Tatar because Nyquist and Abdelkader are signed. Which means you're pretty much saying trade Tatar.

So, how would that work? If the problem is offense, what does Detroit have to add to move Tatar out and get a better offensive option back, or what do they have to do to move him out and bring a legit #1 dman back instead?

And even if any of those moves are possible, is now the time to make it? When the team still has Franzen on the books and Z on the books and Howard on the books?

Maybe for us, perhaps it is time... but we know the organization has a much different view on the importance of the playoff streak, considering that's why they burned Jarnkrok and a 2 for Legwand.

You can't move a signed player?

Are you basically just saying "oh well"? Like the Red Wings cannot do anything with trades? Because I doubt you would be on board with any scenario involving a trade to get better.
 

Claypool

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Maybe for us, perhaps it is time... but we know the organization has a much different view on the importance of the playoff streak, considering that's why they burned Jarnkrok and a 2 for Legwand.

Jarnkork didn't want to play in the minors anymore and there was no room for him on the big club. He didn't want to put in the time in Grand Rapids so they shipped him out. Same with Backman and Janmark. If prospects complain about being put through the Red Wings' system they're shipped out.
 

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Jarnkork didn't want to play in the minors anymore and there was no room for him on the big club. He didn't want to put in the time in Grand Rapids so they shipped him out. Same with Backman and Janmark. If prospects complain about being put through the Red Wings' system they're shipped out.

As they absolutely should be.
 

Actual Thought*

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You can't move a signed player?

Are you basically just saying "oh well"? Like the Red Wings cannot do anything with trades? Because I doubt you would be on board with any scenario involving a trade to get better.

You do realize there have been a grand total of 6 trades in the entire NHL since October 4th right? If so then you must also realize that none of those trades have been of any real consequence. In season trades other than a few deadline deals are a thing of the past and blockbuster deals are pretty much extinct. This is the reality of the NHL not Xbox.
 
Aug 6, 2012
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Well we should expect to lose when Jakub Kindl is playing around 20 minutes a night. The guy single-handedly kills all the flow on the ice. Why Blashill hasn't benched the scrub beats me... it's losing this team games.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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I would say Howard has lost the right to rotate for a little bit. Mrazek's job for the road trip should he not falter in my opinion. Jimmy gets whatever back to backs are coming up but he has not been good enough at all lately.
 

HIFE

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I would say Howard has lost the right to rotate for a little bit. Mrazek's job for the road trip should he not falter in my opinion. Jimmy gets whatever back to backs are coming up but he has not been good enough at all lately.

So true. Whether bad luck, bad vibes, whatever things are not going Jimmy's way. Any Howard sympathiser will agree just hope Blashill has the sense to stick with the obvious. Too bad IMO for Howard, like the 3rd goal Kindl backing toward the net makes a pathetic attempt to block the shot. He ends up screening Howard and deflecting the puck, what an idiot.

The loss from Tuesday still stings. Man that was a sad sad game it felt hopeless. Hockey's supposed to be fun- watching the team self destruct was as depressing as sitting in a hospital and I felt about as sick!

It was everything combined. Howie having to be pulled. Nyquist on the 4th line. Trying in desperation to reunite the euro-twins. Zetters back looking broken again. Not being able to score you could see was defeating the Wings mentally. It's concerning as a spectator to get shut out like this when the team appears to be trying yet fails so hard. It can push a fan to the darker side of his imagination: "Richards is old, Z and D are washed up, Abbie sucks, Larkin is weak, Nyquist and Tatar are weak, the defense is complete ****, Helm sucks, Jurco sucks, even Nosek is a loser,...".

Thankfully pro athletes can see beyond one bad game the Wings have to move on to playing Pittsburgh today. Its a fresh opportunity to put together a complete game I know the Red Wings are capable of.
 

Ezekial

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So true. Whether bad luck, bad vibes, whatever things are not going Jimmy's way. Any Howard sympathiser will agree just hope Blashill has the sense to stick with the obvious. Too bad IMO for Howard, like the 3rd goal Kindl backing toward the net makes a pathetic attempt to block the shot. He ends up screening Howard and deflecting the puck, what an idiot.

The loss from Tuesday still stings. Man that was a sad sad game it felt hopeless. Hockey's supposed to be fun- watching the team self destruct was as depressing as sitting in a hospital and I felt about as sick!

It was everything combined. Howie having to be pulled. Nyquist on the 4th line. Trying in desperation to reunite the euro-twins. Zetters back looking broken again. Not being able to score you could see was defeating the Wings mentally. It's concerning as a spectator to get shut out like this when the team appears to be trying yet fails so hard. It can push a fan to the darker side of his imagination: "Richards is old, Z and D are washed up, Abbie sucks, Larkin is weak, Nyquist and Tatar are weak, the defense is complete ****, Helm sucks, Jurco sucks, even Nosek is a loser,...".

Thankfully pro athletes can see beyond one bad game the Wings have to move on to playing Pittsburgh today. Its a fresh opportunity to put together a complete game I know the Red Wings are capable of.

:handclap: :thumbu:
Good post
 

Chris 84

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i've been saying for ages (and it is obvious to anyone who watches) that datsyuk is being completely wasted playing on this line. imo he needs to be playing with nyquist or tatar. wouldn't mind seeing jurco get a chance with him either, but the important thing is that the 2nd line gets split up.
 

Ezekial

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i've been saying for ages (and it is obvious to anyone who watches) that datsyuk is being completely wasted playing on this line. imo he needs to be playing with nyquist or tatar. wouldn't mind seeing jurco get a chance with him either, but the important thing is that the 2nd line gets split up.

The third line has been worse the last 10 games. No one wants to talk about that though. Sheahan has been the best player on that line.
 

Chris 84

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The third line has been worse the last 10 games. No one wants to talk about that though. Sheahan has been the best player on that line.

all the more reason why the lines need to be mixed. tatar and/or nyquist could both do with an elite playmaker and datsyuk could do with a good sniper.
 

Run the Jewels

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Brad Richards is on pace for his worst point total in his career. Playing alongside Pavel Datsyuk. Another cheap veteran Ken Holland signing that was underwhelming. :shakehead

At some point you need to add more youth to the lineup. Should have traded for Myers and traded Abdelkader at his highest value in order to improve the team. I know, people have an irrational love for Abby, Mantha and Howard.

Once Athanasiou is healthy I'd try something like:

Sheahan-Datsyuk-Larkin
Abdelkader-Zetterberg-Tatar
Nyquist-Athanasiou-Richards
Helm-Nosek-Glendening
Jurco
Andersson
 

Ezekial

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all the more reason why the lines need to be mixed. tatar and/or nyquist could both do with an elite playmaker and datsyuk could do with a good sniper.

Oh no doubt, I'm all for the line changes. I'm juts saying I see everyone complaining that line 2 is still in tact when the top 9 for the most part has been **** for 10 games.
 

HockeyinHD

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You can't move a signed player?

There's "can" and there's "rationally likely to occur to the degree that it makes any sense at all to even spend .000001 of a second considering it".

"Can" Detroit move either Nyquist or Abdelkader within 6 months of singing either to 4 and 7 year deals? Sure. Have we seen anything in the entirety of our lifetimes to suggest they'd ever actually do such a thing? No, we haven't.

Yes, if either or both of them flame out the Wings will get rid of them somehow a la Tootoo or Weiss, but as long as they keep doing generally what they've done so far Detroit, having signed them to the deals they have with that level of performance in mind, would have no real impetus to move them.

Are you basically just saying "oh well"? Like the Red Wings cannot do anything with trades? Because I doubt you would be on board with any scenario involving a trade to get better.

I am combining what I would prefer to happen with a wider comprehension of the things that are likely to happen, and setting my expectations accordingly.

For instance, at the time of the Legwand trade I wanted the team to burn it down. That was the perfect spot for them to do a short term tank. Trade Alfredsson, anybody who wasn't nailed to the floor except D, Z, Nyquist and Tatar.... but Detroit cares a lot more about their playoff streak (or their bottom line) than I do. So, I combine what I'd prefer with what I tend to think the people actually making the decisions prefer and I go from there.

Would I move Larkin, DeKeyser, Howard and a #1 (and maybe a top prospect or two) for a legit lead dman? For sure. Is there any chance in the universe Detroit would? Nope. Will that kind of guy ever be available in a trade anyway? Nope.

So, I can keep wishing for Detroit to make a move they'd never agree to for a player that'd never be available and slowly go mad, or I can move on to things that are somewhere in the realm of possibility.

Jarnkork didn't want to play in the minors anymore and there was no room for him on the big club. He didn't want to put in the time in Grand Rapids so they shipped him out. Same with Backman and Janmark. If prospects complain about being put through the Red Wings' system they're shipped out.

Agree... and to be clear, I'm not complaining about the trade per se. Given the likely motivations of the organization at the time, moving the players they did for Legwand made sense.

I'm just saying that what they wanted isn't the same thing as what I wanted, which matters not at all to them.

Also, I'm 100% on board with running prospects who don't want to go through the grinder directly out of town. Liv (rip), Axelsson, Jarnkrok, whoever.

At some point you need to add more youth to the lineup.

Detroit has 3 forwards over 28 on their active roster. D, Z, Richards.
They have forwards aged, 19, 24 and 25 in big roles.
They have 2 other 23 year olds they'd LOVE to give bigger roles to.
They have two guys on the blue line over 30.
They have a #1 goalie who is just almost 24.

Youth isn't even remotely on the edge of the solar system around which Detroit's actual problem rotates.
 
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14ari13

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I would say Howard has lost the right to rotate for a little bit. Mrazek's job for the road trip should he not falter in my opinion. Jimmy gets whatever back to backs are coming up but he has not been good enough at all lately.

Wasn't it what we said at the beginning of the season?
They play and the best one takes #1 if the other falters.
 

detredWINgs

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Brad Richards is on pace for his worst point total in his career. Playing alongside Pavel Datsyuk. Another cheap veteran Ken Holland signing that was underwhelming. :shakehead

At some point you need to add more youth to the lineup. Should have traded for Myers and traded Abdelkader at his highest value in order to improve the team. I know, people have an irrational love for Abby, Mantha and Howard.

Once Athanasiou is healthy I'd try something like:

Sheahan-Datsyuk-Larkin
Abdelkader-Zetterberg-Tatar
Nyquist-Athanasiou-Richards
Helm-Nosek-Glendening
Jurco
Andersson

Half the forward roster is on pace for their career worst since playing in their respective roles. Richards is simply a symptom of the greater problem: we struggle to score. In reality, Richards was signed to be something like the 7th best scorer on this team. He's not far off.
 

Run the Jewels

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Detroit has 3 forwards over 28 on their active roster. D, Z, Richards.
They have forwards aged, 19, 24 and 25 in big roles.
They have 2 other 23 year olds they'd LOVE to give bigger roles to.
They have two guys on the blue line over 30.
They have a #1 goalie who is just almost 24.

Youth isn't even remotely on the edge of the solar system around which Detroit's actual problem rotates.

Making a 24 year old Tyler Myers your #1 d-man most certainly would have gone a long way towards fixing Detroit's biggest problem.
 

SpookyTsuki

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Dec 3, 2014
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Brad Richards is on pace for his worst point total in his career. Playing alongside Pavel Datsyuk. Another cheap veteran Ken Holland signing that was underwhelming. :shakehead

At some point you need to add more youth to the lineup. Should have traded for Myers and traded Abdelkader at his highest value in order to improve the team. I know, people have an irrational love for Abby, Mantha and Howard.

Once Athanasiou is healthy I'd try something like:

Sheahan-Datsyuk-Larkin
Abdelkader-Zetterberg-Tatar
Nyquist-Athanasiou-Richards
Helm-Nosek-Glendening
Jurco
Andersson

Sheahan on the top line? Grab the pitchforks
 
Aug 6, 2012
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5
Detroit has 3 forwards over 28 on their active roster. D, Z, Richards.
They have forwards aged, 19, 24 and 25 in big roles.
They have 2 other 23 year olds they'd LOVE to give bigger roles to.
They have two guys on the blue line over 30.
They have a #1 goalie who is just almost 24.

Youth isn't even remotely on the edge of the solar system around which Detroit's actual problem rotates.

Youth is more than just a number. Youth=talent

We need more talent on both sides of the puck.
 

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