Post-Game Talk: Jimmy Howard proves the giving season is still upon us

[Hunting Bow*]

Couldn't agree more. I mean last night I don't think I could call any of those goals "bad" or put them solely on Howard. The first 2 he was hung out to dry, the third was extremely hard to stop considering it was deflected off the stick into the very top corner, and the fourth he had Kronner and I think Tats screening him more than any Jet (there was a Jet there too), he had no chance.

I think right now Mrazek should start every game except the second leg of a back to back, until Howard can right the ship because even with the bad breaks, Petr definitely gives us a better chance to win. If Howie can step up to the plate and overcome adversity more power to him, but right now Mrazek should get the reins and most of the starts.

Other than that getting Pulky, Miller, Q, and Big E will help a lot more than some people think. Also the lines need to be shaken up, I thought Jurco complimented Tats and Sheahan (who's been really good lately) more than Nyquie.

So looking at Howards starts. He has had the following in start quality:

Outstanding: 6 starts
Mediocre: 3 starts
Bad: 8 starts

To me those are backup numbers for the WHOLE year.

 

[HockeyinHD]

The Wings don't need to tank, but they do need to cut ties from players they don't feel have a future with the team.

Until they do that with someone like, say, Fedorov, and the fanbase revolts. Or if they had tried that with Nyquist this past offseason. Beyond that... who are we talking about here? If we're not talking about throwing a top 6er out of the airlock, what big and positive change will come about from cutting ties with some #8-13 forward?

On that same token, take some chances with trades. Swapping out a guy like Kindl isn't going to solve much, but it at least makes a commitment to change and progress.

Having not been here at the time, what did the threads look like when Holland moved out Jarnkrok and a pick for Legwand?

It's been discussed to death that people don't want Holland to go all Holmgren on us, but it would be nice if he proactively addressed the defense before the trade deadline with a veteran rental. The right move is hard to come by, I sympathize, but it's been years.

Here's the problem. That deadline rental, if we're talking about a guy who can play in the top 3-4, is going to cost way more than Legwand did. Even if Holland made that trade he is going to get chopped to bits for years the very second any of those moved-out assets accomplishes anything... and there's absolutely no reason to make that trade to begin with.

I mean yes, the defense needs the upgrade, but moving a couple prospects and a pick for a #3-4 guy is the thing that makes the Wings dangerous? That's the move which changes the dynamic of the roster? Heck, if that's the case just wait around for Quincey to show up. He's a #4 and he's free.

Detroit's roster is what it is right now. They have a first year NHL coach, their locked up stars in D and Z are old, their previously #1 dman is now a #3, and they're paying a goalie 5.3 per to be a .910 guy for the past 27 months or so. Trading Kindl or whatever isn't going to roll that rock up that hill.

As for this game, the core younger players continue to be unable to do the heavy lifting alone.

The players who have spit the bit this year offensively are Kronwall, Sheahan, Helm and Glendening. We can add Datsyuk too, who is on pace for 18ish this year after having 26 last year. Tatar, Nyquist, Abdelkader... those are all second-tier offensive players who are producing like second tier offensive players.

All of that aside, when a brand new first year NHL coach comes in (after more than a couple years of plenty of people hereabouts demanding one, it should be pointed out), why is anyone surprised or alarmed by a first-half period of flux? Heck, even if the whole year is a slog with the team trying to find it's identity inside a new system with (as always) a fairly significant change in personnel on ice... that's got to be not only accepted, but anticipated, right?

I maintain that this roster is still greatly in need of scoring help in the top 6. Another guy who can reliably be counted on to put the puck in the damn net.

Detroit's current top 6 is D, Z, Nyquist, Tatar, Abdelkader and Larkin. Which of those guys is the one that you're going to find an offensive improvement for, in terms of goalscoring? Z, maybe... but I don't think you'd seriously move him out of the top 6, right?

Here's the problem with Detroit's roster at forward. Their top 6 is good offensively, but poor defensively (relative to other top 6's). Their bottom 6 is plenty defensive, but poor offensively (relative to other bottom 6's). When you've got mirrored imbalances like that it's not super hard for opponents to find matchups all up and down the roster to exploit in critical situations.

And all of that said, if Detroit had a legit #1 dman instead of a fading #2-3 like Kronwall and a specialist #2 like Green trying to imitate one around 70% of their problems on offense would go away immediately.

 

[Hunting Bow*]

Can anyone one say Cristobal Huet????

 

[Ezekial]

So looking at Howards starts. He has had the following in start quality:

Outstanding: 6 starts
Mediocre: 3 starts
Bad: 8 starts

To me those are backup numbers for the WHOLE year.

Only playing the second leg of back to backs is being the back up.

 

[SoupNazi]

Can anyone one say Cristobal Huet????

What's your point?

 

[Hunting Bow*]

What's your point?

What's my point? Isn't very obvious? Overpaid backup that no other team wanted.

 

[SoupNazi]

What's my point? Isn't very obvious? Overpaid backup that no other team wanted.

No, it wasn't since obvious since you've always compared Howard to Cam Ward in the past.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

No, it wasn't since obvious since you've always compared Howard to Cam Ward in the past.

Also Tim Cheveldae.

 

[Frk It]

Here's the problem. That deadline rental, if we're talking about a guy who can play in the top 3-4, is going to cost way more than Legwand did. Even if Holland made that trade he is going to get chopped to bits for years the very second any of those moved-out a a couple and a pick for a #3-4 guy i

Detroit's current top 6 is D, Z, Nyquist, Tatar, Abdelkader and Larkin. Which of those guys is the one that you're going to find an offensive improvement for, in terms of goalscoring? Z, maybe... but I don't think you'd seriously move him out of the top 6, right?

Here's the problem with Detroit's roster at forward. Their top 6 is good offensively, but poor defensively (relative to other top 6's). Their bottom 6 is plenty defensive, but poor offensively (relative to other bottom 6's). When you've got mirrored imbalances like that it's not super hard for opponents to find matchups all up and down the roster to exploit in critical situations.

And all of that said, if Detroit had a legit #1 dman instead of a fading #2-3 like Kronwall and a specialist #2 like Green trying to imitate one around 70% of their problems on offense would go away immediately.

Totally agree with your last paragraph.

Regarding the top 6 and bottom 6.... If that were true, shouldn't you be able to mix up the players to get the right balance of offense and defense with the personnel we have?

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Until they do that with someone like, say, Fedorov, and the fanbase revolts. Or if they had tried that with Nyquist this past offseason. Beyond that... who are we talking about here? If we're not talking about throwing a top 6er out of the airlock, what big and positive change will come about from cutting ties with some #8-13 forward?

For the record, I am on board with that.

Gotta give to get.

 

[Hunting Bow*]

No, it wasn't since obvious since you've always compared Howard to Cam Ward in the past.

Cam Ward? You will have to PROVE that one. Doesn't Cam Ward have CS? If that not out of left field I'm not sure what is?

 

[Hunting Bow*]

Also Tim Cheveldae.

Tim Cheveldea yes. Cam Ward NOPE.

 

[SoupNazi]

Cam Ward? You will have to PROVE that one. Doesn't Cam Ward have CS? If that not out of left field I'm not sure what is?

Your own words, comparing Howard and Cam Ward:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=98718885&highlight=cam+ward#post98718885

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=98712883&highlight=cam+ward#post98712883

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

First time I've turned a game off in a long time. After the 4th goal, I was done.

 

[Hunting Bow*]

Your own words, comparing Howard and Cam Ward:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=98718885&highlight=cam+ward#post98718885

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=98712883&highlight=cam+ward#post98712883

LMAO

It's actually quite the contrary. I said he's (Howard) NOT at (paraphrasing) anywhere near Cam Ward.

You might want to go read those posts again. Especially the one where some said:
If we are relying on a goalie to win us games the team isn't Cup worthy.

And I said: Cam Ward would like to say hi!

You might want to look at the context of the statement rather than the fact that I mentioned Cam Ward.

 

[SoupNazi]

LMAO

It's actually quite the contrary. I said he's (Howard) NOT at (paraphrasing) anywhere near Cam Ward.

You might want to go read those posts again. Especially the one where some said:
If we are relying on a goalie to win us games the team isn't Cup worthy.

And I said: Cam Ward would like to say hi!

You might want to look at the context of the statement rather than the fact that I mentioned Cam Ward.

You made the comparison between the two, not me.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Holland doesn't seem interested in giving up much of anything.

Holland just refuses to cut ties with players who have become a main stay on the roster, unless its the player pulling the plug. See Flip and Hudler.

He has no problem giving up future assets like draft picks for mediocre talent that will only ensure a seat at the playoff table, but the Wings aren't in the position where those kinds of trades make any sense. They need a massive shakeup, and Holland won't do that. He likes his team.

I mean does anyone actually think Jimmy Howard is ever going to be traded? Howard probably lists his primary residence as Joe Louis Arena. That type of job security is something most people only dream of.

He cut Weiss, but Weiss was never even a part of the Wings roster. Hurt from day one, and just sucked it up the three hours he was healthy. He wasn't part of the Red Wings family.

It's a country club. Once you are in, you are in for life.

 

[Hunting Bow*]

You made the comparison between the two, not me.

HOLY COW!!

Yes one UP and one DOWN. Guess which is which. NOW SHOW ME WHERE I MADE DIRECT COMPARSION OF WARD AND HOWARD AS EQUALS.

Just for clarifaction.

Are you saying I compared them or I compared each to each other?

So in the later, yes i compared them, one good goalie and one bad goalie.

 

[Dotter]

For the record, I am on board with that.

Gotta give to get.

Larkin for Seth Jones. Not sure NSH would be on board with that, though.

 

[Bench]

So in the later, yes i compared them, one good goalie and one bad goalie.

I don't know if anybody is calling Cam Ward good these days. The comparison might actually work out for you, even if you didn't intend it that way.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Larkin for Seth Jones. Not sure NSH would be on board with that, though.

Yeah I would think that Preds GM David Poile, Might want someone with a little more experience then Dylan Larkin. Like Ryan Nugent-Hopkins or Ryan Johansen would be my guess.

 

[Ezekial]

I don't know if anybody is calling Cam Ward good these days. The comparison might actually work out for you, even if you didn't intend it that way.

He was never very good, except for 1-2 regular seasons and 1 playoffs. Even then it wasn't even the same year.

The year he won the Conn Smythe he had a .882 and a 3.68 reg season

 

[lilidk]

I actually liked what I saw
1. Pavel still very good
2. Nobody say anything about Nosek , he is upgrade over Miller
3. team played hard till last minute.
4. Sheahan is very underrated , give him fiscal winger and Tatar , could be dominant
Richards is a 3rd line winger , hope during playoff time will be effective
Nyquist is to soft, to many soft players on the team already, he cold be very good with LA or Boston
What can we got in return for Nyquist+ Kindle?

 

[Mijatovic]

We just have too many passengers in the forward group to be honest. I am not as disappoitned with the back half as many are here.

Pretty much every forward is not pulling their weight this season. Need a lot more scoring.

 

[HockeyinHD]

Totally agree with your last paragraph.

Regarding the top 6 and bottom 6.... If that were true, shouldn't you be able to mix up the players to get the right balance of offense and defense with the personnel we have?

No, because just plugging in a bottom 6er into the top 6 to make their defense better and/or putting Tatar on a 4th line to make the offense down there better doesn't really work. It's a question of relativity.