News Article: Jimmy Howard extension coming (Maybe/Maybe not)

[PullHard]

Panera Bread is grossly expensive , it is actually a good nickname in that sense because he is about to get paid a disgusting amount of money

 

[Henkka]

Yup. It’s Panarin.

Because Pan = bread.

In finnish "pannari" is a nickname for "pannukakku" = pancake.

That why we call Panarin as "pannari".

10 years ago the same nickname was in use for Dustin Penner. Guy even did get injured when eating pancakes.

 

[scallionjj11]

 

[MBH]

In April of 2013, Jimmy Howard signed a six year contract worth $5.3M a year. At the time it was the 10th largest salary in the NHL.
Howard was wrapping up his fourth full season as an NHL goalie - and it was his second straight strong season after a bad sophomore slump.
In the lockout shortened season, he went:
42 games, 21-13-7, .923, 2.13.

So, six years later, that contract year was.
* The last time Jimmy Howard won more games than he lost (21 wins vs 20 losses).
* The last time Jimmy Howard started 30 or more games and posted a save percentage higher than .910.
* The last time he'd ever finish a season as the Red Wings starting playoff goalie.

Compared to Ericsson or Abdelkader, Howard has been alright when judged against his contract value.
He didn't completely shit the bed immediately after the contract began.
But despite what the Ken Daniels of the world might tell you, he's not been good either.
In his best years, he starts well for six to eight weeks and then fades hard.

 

[Retire91]

I think Howard has been the most mediocre goalie in the wings philosophy of rostering a goalie that is just good enough to backstop a stacked team. The team shed too much talent for any goalie to hold up, I largely don't blame Howard for much of anything. This team wasn't going to compete no matter how good he was and at times he was genuinely good.

Never been a fan of the contract because I felt the team should have been rebuilding at the time it was signed and also the contract made him nearly untradable due to the cap hit. Howard had also played behind preretirement Lidstrom every season except the shortened one.

I don't think the contract has hurt the team much because the team really never was rebuilding during the majority of its term. All these contracts are finally coming off the books and we have a new GM so yay.

 

[Henkka]

In April of 2013, Jimmy Howard signed a six year contract worth $5.3M a year. At the time it was the 10th largest salary in the NHL.

10 largest salary on that time with 7th best Starter save percentage on that time. Then went 7-4 at the playoffs after the signing.

Good deal on the signing moment.

Injuries happened afterwards, which made it look bad.

 

[MBH]

10 largest salary on that time with 7th best Starter save percentage on that time. Then went 7-4 at the playoffs after the signing.

Good deal on the signing moment.

Injuries happened afterwards, which made it look bad.

I don't think it was a good deal at all. He didn't even have four full years under his belt, he'd been spotty in the playoffs, and one of his four years was pretty poor.
I might have done 3 x 5.3. But six?
No way.
Not with a hot shot rookie playing well in Grand Rapids.

 

[Winger98]

and how has that hot shot goalie in GR fared since... .

 

[14ari13]

I think Howard has been the most mediocre goalie in the wings philosophy of rostering a goalie that is just good enough to backstop a stacked team. The team shed too much talent for any goalie to hold up, I largely don't blame Howard for much of anything. This team wasn't going to compete no matter how good he was and at times he was genuinely good.

Never been a fan of the contract because I felt the team should have been rebuilding at the time it was signed and also the contract made him nearly untradable due to the cap hit. Howard had also played behind preretirement Lidstrom every season except the shortened one.

I don't think the contract has hurt the team much because the team really never was rebuilding during the majority of its term. All these contracts are finally coming off the books and we have a new GM so yay.

I think Howard was great in his first 2/3 seasons. After that it went downwards.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I don't think it was a good deal at all. He didn't even have four full years under his belt, he'd been spotty in the playoffs, and one of his four years was pretty poor.
I might have done 3 x 5.3. But six?
No way.
Not with a hot shot rookie playing well in Grand Rapids.

Mrazek was a hot shot because he had a fantastic WJC.

Was this guy a hot shot goalie playing well?
Garret Sparks Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

How about this one?
Jacob Markstrom Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

This one?
Eddie Lack Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

Guys playing well in the AHL (which is .916 really outstanding?) does not a "hot shot future #1 goalie" make.

Goalies are a ****ing crapshoot. If you get a guy who is good and steady, it's generally not a bad idea to lock him up. Mrazek looked fantastic in the WJC and pretty good everywhere else in the AHL. He did not look like he was destined to be a top 5 goalie. THAT is the kind of guy that you toss aside Jimmy Howard for. Petr had clear drawbacks to his game. He also has well documented strengths. However, Carter Hart/Andrei Vasilevskiy/John Gibson he was not.

 

[MBH]

and how has that hot shot goalie in GR fared since... .

A lot like Howard.
Interesting to note.
Playoff records in the six years of Howard's contract.
Howard 1 win vs 4 losses
Mrazek 9 wins vs 11 losses.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

A lot like Howard.
Interesting to note.
Playoff records in the six years of Howard's contract.
Howard 1 win vs 4 losses
Mrazek 9 wins vs 11 losses.

And they were playoff frauds the whole time. That's not really a relevant piece of data.

Petr Mrazek was a hot shot because of one weekend tournament. Other than that, he was simply a very good goalie prospect. No different from Petruzelli, Van Pottelberghe, or Larsson.

 

[MBH]

And they were playoff frauds the whole time. That's not really a relevant piece of data.

Petr Mrazek was a hot shot because of one weekend tournament. Other than that, he was simply a very good goalie prospect. No different from Petruzelli, Van Pottelberghe, or Larsson.

Well, he was having a strong rookie season in the AHL when Howard signed his contract that April.
So no, that's not true.

You're also ignoring that Mrazek had two very good post-draft seasons in Ottawa.

It's also worth noting that Mrazek, at 20, posted a better save percentage and GAA in GR than Howard every did (Howard did manage to match Mrazek's save percentage in his final year there).

But whatever.
Go ahead and make the case that Jimmy Howard earned his $32M

 

[ShelbyZ]

IMO, Howards extension was going to be damned if you do, damned if you don't for Holland.

On the money and term, there probably wasn't much wiggle room. Less term probably meant shelling out more money, and it wasn't like it was Detroit or nothing for Howard... Toronto was still in that phase where they were on an annual goalie hunt and probably would've given Howard a lucrative offer had he hit the market, and it was pretty much all but official that Kiprusoff was going to retire leaving a goalie opening in Calgary. I can't remember some of the other openings, but its possible other teams might have been interested to shore up their goaltending had Howard hit the open market given his most recent resume. I mean yea, the contract didn't work out, so damnit Holland.

In another universe, Holland decides to try to give less/term money to Howard and he hits the UFA market, and signs elsewhere. Holland then has to scramble to find a suitable replacement for a team that appears on the up with an active playoff streak and coming off a playoff appearance where they took the eventual winner to a game 7 OT. The next best option on the market was Mike Smith, who signed for more money and the same term to stay in AZ. If they miss out on him, they're stuck kicking the tires on reclamation projects like Bryzgalov or Emery, signing a guy that might be a starter like Khudobin, trading for a potential starter like Bernier, or hoping somebody like Khabibulin can find a fountain of youth to tandem with Gustavsson (when he's not on IR). If that plan fails, and the streak ends or they have a similar season. Red Wings fans would point to Howard's 12-13 and damn Holland for letting him slip away, like he did with Suter and Hossa...

Then again, maybe Joey MacDonald put a curse on them for giving up on him the previous summer...

 

[ShelbyZ]

Well, he was having a strong rookie season in the AHL when Howard signed his contract that April.
So no, that's not true.

You're also ignoring that Mrazek had two very good post-draft seasons in Ottawa.

It's also worth noting that Mrazek, at 20, posted a better save percentage and GAA in GR than Howard every did (Howard did manage to match Mrazek's save percentage in his final year there).

But whatever.
Go ahead and make the case that Jimmy Howard earned his $32M

Howard was more consistent in his first two NHL starts than Mrazek was for his....

This argument that they'd base the contract for their at the time starting goalie on what a kid was doing in less than one season in the AHL is absurd. Goalies usually take a while to develop and usually have to be eased into a full time starters role. Some also crash and burn (Mrazek) or get figured out by the rest of the league and never recover before they can get fully acclimated to a starting job. I'd bet if the Red Wings had a backup that could stay healthy for longer than a few days during Mrazek's waiver exempt years, he probably would've spent a lot more time in GR.

By the same logic, why sign Rafalski or extend Stuart for more than a year when you've got Derek Meech ready to jump in the line-up and Quincey and Ericsson 1 and 2 years away respectively?

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I cannot understand how obsessed some people on this board are with Mrazek.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Well, he was having a strong rookie season in the AHL when Howard signed his contract that April.
So no, that's not true.

You're also ignoring that Mrazek had two very good post-draft seasons in Ottawa.

It's also worth noting that Mrazek, at 20, posted a better save percentage and GAA in GR than Howard every did (Howard did manage to match Mrazek's save percentage in his final year there).

But whatever.
Go ahead and make the case that Jimmy Howard earned his $32M

Whether Howard "earned" his 32 million is kind of irrelevant. Sure, 6x5.3 was a borderline contract when it was signed and it ended up not being a great one because he got hurt/declined. But the reasons why you dislike it are a difference of opinion at best and crazy utilization of hindsight at worst.

Howard looked like a very good starter worth that contract when it was signed in 2013. 3 of 4 seasons at or above .920. He proved to not be after getting hurt or headcasey in the following years. The far more reasonable expectation for Mrazek (and frankly, probably the better thing for Mrazek's development) would have been that he was in GR and developing and then contested for the starting role beginning in 15-16. Because Gus couldn't stay healthy, he got a chance earlier and with some early success got a big head. With that in mind, Howard would have been three years into the deal before getting pushed. And without having to rush back from injury to try to retain/reclaim his role, he probably plays better.

Howard's contract turned into a bad thing. It was not a bad idea in the world of 12-13. He got hurt and being hurt messed with his head, as well as being dislodged by Mrazek at the top while he was hurt.

 

[Henkka]

You're also ignoring that Mrazek had two very good post-draft seasons in Ottawa.


Go ahead and make the case that Jimmy Howard earned his $32M

You also like to ignore every good season Howard ever had in your Mrazek -praise.

Howard's career record is 21 wins, 26 losses at the playoffs. 44.7% win pecentage.
Mrazek's record is 9 wing 11 losses. 45.0 win percentage.

No difference.

Both are average/losing goalies in wins, ~same level with small sample size.

But in SV%

Howard playoff career
.9175

Mrazek playoff career
.9099

That's relatively almost 10% difference favoring Howard.

Mrazek has been a problem of himself.

 

[Konnan511]

I cannot understand how obsessed some people on this board are with Mrazek.

Goalie of the future yah turd nugget

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

The difference is that Howard basically operates at a 4-6 on a scale of 10. He's basically average. What you'll get from him game 1 is what you'll get from him game 30 and so on.
Mrazek operated from 2-8 or 2-9. When Mrazek was on, he was damn good. When he was off, he was terrible. And once he got bad, it kept getting worse because he'd start pressing. And frankly, a guy like Howard who is meh to good is generally viewed as a safer alternative to a guy like Mrazek who's basically a slot machine.

Rightly or wrongly, NHL teams as a whole value consistency of results over flash in net.

 

[Retire91]

I think Mrazek sticks with people because the stakes were high. Personally, I would have like to see Howard traded or walk rather than signed at length and Mrazek given number 1 as a sink or swim opportunity. The team was obviously declining and if Mrazek turned into a world beater he could keep a bad team competative if he blew it what does it matter the wings were entering their throw away seasons anyway.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I cannot understand how obsessed some people on this board are with Mrazek.

By moving Mrazek I guess some fans feel like they were robbed of the great tradition of endless goalie war debates?

Honestly I don't get it either. It's not like Jimmy is elite, but Mrazek is 27 years old, on his third team, and has yet to lock down the job of starting goaltender on an NHL team. Pick your poison.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Mrazek has a lot of off ice stuff causing problems too. I don't mean that in a bad life choices kind of way. But testy relationships abounded around him and he would do things when he was struggling that was basically digging his grave deeper.

They even fired the goalie coach for him and quickly Howard developed a better working relationship with Mrazek's guy. I hope Mrazek figures it out, but I have routinely heard that his biggest problem was working hard enough at his craft in terms of most commonly cited failure.

 

[Hockeyville19Calumet]

I cannot understand how obsessed some people on this board are with Mrazek.

I equally can't understand how obsessed some are with Howard? Mediocre at best but many talk about his All Star games as some barometer of good.

 

[Gniwder]

I equally can't understand how obsessed some are with Howard? Mediocre at best but many talk about his All Star games as some barometer of good.

Neither one is really a difference maker on this crap team with a dumpster fire defense. Let Stevie fix the defense first.

We all know Mrazek is a better goalie than Howard sometimes, and sometimes he's a train wreck. Howar is rarely healthy for a full season, and he drops off second half regardless. Neither are good enough to win a Cup, so let's just leave it at that and move on...