News Article: Jimmy Howard extension coming (Maybe/Maybe not)

[Winger98]

A lot like Howard.
Interesting to note.
Playoff records in the six years of Howard's contract.
Howard 1 win vs 4 losses
Mrazek 9 wins vs 11 losses.

a lot alike, except one nut jobbed himself out of town.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I equally can't understand how obsessed some are with Howard? Mediocre at best but many talk about his All Star games as some barometer of good.

I don't think anyone is obsessed with Howard. We talk about him because, unlike Mrazek, he is on the Red Wings.

 

[Hockeyville19Calumet]

I don't think anyone is obsessed with Howard. We talk about him because, unlike Mrazek, he is on the Red Wings.

When someone tells me that Howard is above average because he made the All Star team it's one of two things. Obsessed or Homer.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

When someone tells me that Howard is above average because he made the All Star team it's one of two things. Obsessed or Homer.

Or he is probably hovering around 10-20 for most of his career in terms of #1 in the league which is also pretty true of Howard. It isn't defending him so much as answering people calling him a backup with interestingly no NHL personnel sharing your opinion at all... Which if you think he is in the 10-15 which he has been for times he is above average. Either way I think a decent chunk of this argument comes from a Jimmy is an awful starter case and while yes he has some downsides, Howard isn't awful either so it is more the polarization of the argument that attracts these so called defenders in my opinion.

Just because I don't kill his contract doesn't mean I am enamored with him at all times.

 

[MBH]

a lot alike, except one nut jobbed himself out of town.

The one who upset the capitals in round one last year? That one?
When was the last time Jimmy Howard upset anyone in the playoffs? NCAA?

Anyway, the Mrazek angle is just one reason why the $32M contract was stupid.

Go ahead and make the case for Howard earned the money.

 

[TatarTangle]

Yikes.

I was looking for a dead horse, luckily I clicked on this thread.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

The one who upset the capitals in round one last year? That one?
When was the last time Jimmy Howard upset anyone in the playoffs? NCAA?

Anyway, the Mrazek angle is just one reason why the $32M contract was stupid.

Go ahead and make the case for Howard earned the money.

The current best goalie in the world has missed three of the last four post-seasons while making almost twice as much. I think it is more of the don't pay goalies angle that I am more willing to hear. We paid Howard like a middle tier to actually towards the end of his contract bottom teens goalie in terms of the salary. That was exactly what he was for most of it. He might not have earned it in your opinion, but he is closer to the market value than I think you're appreciating.

I don't think Jimmy Howard is what is holding this team back.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

The one who upset the capitals in round one last year? That one?
When was the last time Jimmy Howard upset anyone in the playoffs? NCAA?

Anyway, the Mrazek angle is just one reason why the $32M contract was stupid.

Go ahead and make the case for Howard earned the money.

Mrazek did that all by himself? With his .899 save % for the series?

That's quite a feat.

 

[MBH]

Or he is probably hovering around 10-20 for most of his career in terms of #1 in the league which is also pretty true of Howard. It isn't defending him so much as answering people calling him a backup with interesting no NHL personnel share your opinion at all... Which if you think he is in the 10-15 which he has been for times he is above average. Either way I think a decent chunk of this argument comes from a Jimmy is an awful starter case and while yes he has some downsides, Howard isn't awful either so it is more the polarization of the argument that attracts these so called defenders in my opinion.

Season Save% Ranking (among goalies with 35 games played)
2013-14 .910 28th
2014-15 .910 30th
2015-16 .906 33rd
2016-17 Not enough games
2017-18 .910 24th
2018-19 .909 25th

His one good season was 16-17. His .927 sv pct was second in the NHL. But he only played 28 games (and didn't have a chance to let the second half collapse happen).

Howard has not been a top 10-20 goalie during his contract.
He's 25th among NHL goalies in save% over the last six years.
He's not had a single winning season. He's not won a playoff series.

 

[Konnan511]

Yikes.

I was looking for a dead horse, luckily I clicked on this thread.

Ohhhh noooo, this is going to be a nice hill for some to die on. Just like the last samurai, only Tom Cruise is worthy.

 

[MBH]

The current best goalie in the world has missed three of the last four post-seasons while making almost twice as much. I think it is more of the don't pay goalies angle that I am more willing to hear. We paid Howard like a middle tier to actually towards the end of his contract bottom teens goalie in terms of the salary. That was exactly what he was for most of it. He might not have earned it in your opinion, but he is closer to the market value than I think you're appreciating.

I don't think Jimmy Howard is what is holding this team back.

No, he's been a bottom 5 starting goalie most of his contract.
Bottom five goalies are the kinds of goalies you sign for 1 year at $2M.

Howard did hold this team back a bit from 13 to maybe 15. But yeah, he wasn't going to change a damn thing about about the last 3-4 seasons.

 

[MBH]

Mrazek did that all by himself? With his .899 save % for the series?

That's quite a feat.

Really? Who said he did it by himself?

Regardless.
.899 against the defending cup champs.
Nobody had any complaints about Mrazek's play.

Here's how other goalies did the previous year.
Fleury .853
Vasilvesky .906
Murray .905
Bobrovsky .900

Mrazek had a couple awful games - but he also stood on his head in the final two games of the series.

Anyway, you're making it more about Mrazek than Howard.
The key point I made was that Howard wasn't worth his contract.

And the facts make that plain.

 

[TatarTangle]

Really? Who said he did it by himself?

Regardless.
.899 against the defending cup champs.
Nobody had any complaints about Mrazek's play.

Here's how other goalies did the previous year.
Fleury .853
Vasilvesky .906
Murray .905
Bobrovsky .900

Mrazek had a couple awful games - but he also stood on his head in the final two games of the series.

Anyway, you're making it more about Mrazek than Howard.
The key point I made was that Howard wasn't worth his contract.

And the facts make that plain.

Oddly reminiscent of his career so far. Also a trait elite, winning goaltenders tend not to have.

 

[Winger98]

The one who upset the capitals in round one last year? That one?
When was the last time Jimmy Howard upset anyone in the playoffs? NCAA?

Anyway, the Mrazek angle is just one reason why the $32M contract was stupid.

Go ahead and make the case for Howard earned the money.

The one who got yanked against the Bruins and had a sub .900 sv% for the playoffs, and who couldn't fend off Brien Elliot and Michael Neuvirth for the starting job on the Flyers the year before?

Howard's contract doesn't matter to me.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Really? Who said he did it by himself?

Regardless.
.899 against the defending cup champs.
Nobody had any complaints about Mrazek's play.

Here's how other goalies did the previous year.
Fleury .853
Vasilvesky .906
Murray .905
Bobrovsky .900

Mrazek had a couple awful games - but he also stood on his head in the final two games of the series.

Anyway, you're making it more about Mrazek than Howard.
The key point I made was that Howard wasn't worth his contract.

And the facts make that plain.

You said he did.

"The one who upset the Capitals in round one..." The Hurricanes upset the Capitals, not Mrazek.

I'm not making it more about Mrazek, you're the one who started this whole thing. The Wings had to choose between two goalies. One is an NHL starting goaltender, the other has yet to definitively prove that he is.

Mrazek might be the cheaper of the two, but don't mistake the reason why.

 

[MBH]

The one who got yanked against the Bruins and had a sub .900 sv% for the playoffs, and who couldn't fend off Brien Elliot and Michael Neuvirth for the starting job on the Flyers the year before?

Howard's contract doesn't matter to me.

Well, if you don't mind drastically overpaying a mediocre player, that's a stress-free way to be a fan of a grossly mismanaged team. I envy you.

Mrazek came back early from a groin injury and sucked against Boston.
It's going to be interesting to see if Mrazek builds on the season he had last year.
He's still 27. He could be a solid NHL goalie for another 7-8 years.

 

[MBH]

You said he did.

"The one who upset the Capitals in round one..." The Hurricanes upset the Capitals, not Mrazek.

I'm not making it more about Mrazek, you're the one who started this whole thing. The Wings had to choose between two goalies. One is an NHL starting goaltender, the other has yet to definitively prove that he is.

Mrazek might be the cheaper of the two, but don't mistake the reason why.

That's a stretch.
Mrazek got credit for 4 wins that series. He did beat Washington. So did Carolina.
I never said he did it by himself. That's a pretty bad misrepresentation of my point.

My only mention of Mrazek was to say I didn't think we had any cause to sign Howard to the rotten deal he signed.
I'll defend that.

 

[Winger98]

Well, if you don't mind drastically overpaying a mediocre player, that's a stress-free way to be a fan of a grossly mismanaged team. I envy you.

Mrazek came back early from a groin injury and sucked against Boston.
It's going to be interesting to see if Mrazek builds on the season he had last year.
He's still 27. He could be a solid NHL goalie for another 7-8 years.

It's stress free because what would shaving a couple of million off a cap hit do? Would we have wanted a better goalie? And since it's unlikely a better goalie would have been signed, the Wings would have just had musical chairs at another position for the past few years. Howard is a placeholder until the team is better and, hopefully, a better guy is coming up through the system. In the mean time, he offers a bit of stability and seems to be a good locker room guy, things that probably take on a bit more importance when the team is lousy and it's not fun showing up at the rink every day.

If he couldn't play, he shouldn't have been on the ice. Especially when the Canes weren't exactly sacrificing anything with McElhinney in net. I'm hoping for Mrazek, too. I liked him, pulled for him for years. Hopefully bouncing around the league will help get himself sorted a bit.

 

[kliq]

To judge where Howard ranks among his peers solely based on his save % is a bit disingenuous. I think one thing everyone here can agree on is that every Detroit goaltender has been playing behind a dumpster fire of a defense ever since Lidstrom retired. I think saying Howard is ranked in the 10-20 range is pretty spot on, put him on a team with a good D, and he easily ranks in the 10-15 range.

 

[MBH]

It's stress free because what would shaving a couple of million off a cap hit do? Would we have wanted a better goalie? And since it's unlikely a better goalie would have been signed, the Wings would have just had musical chairs at another position for the past few years. Howard is a placeholder until the team is better and, hopefully, a better guy is coming up through the system. In the mean time, he offers a bit of stability and seems to be a good locker room guy, things that probably take on a bit more importance when the team is lousy and it's not fun showing up at the rink every day.

If he couldn't play, he shouldn't have been on the ice. Especially when the Canes weren't exactly sacrificing anything with McElhinney in net. I'm hoping for Mrazek, too. I liked him, pulled for him for years. Hopefully bouncing around the league will help get himself sorted a bit.

A couple million here.
A couple million there.
A couple million there.

Are you seriously going to argue that overpaying players doesn't matter?
Man.
I guess maybe it didn't matter. Holland was driving this team to the basement anyway.
Howard.
Ericsson.
Helm.
Abdelkader.
Quincey.
Weiss.
Samuelsson.
Nielsen.
Cleary.
Tootoo.
Colaiacovo.
Legwand.
Cole.
Zidlicky.

That 2011-17 era Holland.... my God.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Holland isn't GM of the Red Wings anymore, why are you bringing back that era so fervently?

Of that group, Howard was near the bottom of my worries.

Just let it go. If Howard gets extended to some unreasonable amount we can bitch and whine about it then. But right now he is on the last year of his deal and I don't see him getting paid all that much if he is offered another NHL contract.

 

[Gniwder]

A couple million here.
A couple million there.
A couple million there.

Are you seriously going to argue that overpaying players doesn't matter?
Man.
I guess maybe it didn't matter. Holland was driving this team to the basement anyway.
Howard.
Ericsson.
Helm.
Abdelkader.
Quincey.
Weiss.
Samuelsson.
Nielsen.
Cleary.
Tootoo.
Colaiacovo.
Legwand.
Cole.
Zidlicky.

That 2011-17 era Holland.... my God.

Don't forget to add Mrazek to that list, he still makes less now than he did as an RFA.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

That's a stretch.
Mrazek got credit for 4 wins that series. He did beat Washington. So did Carolina.
I never said he did it by himself. That's a pretty bad misrepresentation of my point.

My only mention of Mrazek was to say I didn't think we had any cause to sign Howard to the rotten deal he signed.
I'll defend that.

It's not a misrepresentation, it's literally your words. You said he's the one who upset Washington.

Your point was a bad misrepresentation of what actually happened.

 

[Oddbob]

Mrazek is all over the map, hot and very cold, so it is darn funny to think that anyone thinks he single handedly carried the Canes past the Caps. He was up and down that whole series.

 

[Oddbob]

Also Howard is a more than capable starter, and he kept a lot of games last year from becoming flat out embarrassing especially in the first half of the season. We got out-chanced and outshot many nights, and thanks to Jimmy we were in games we had no business being in. He is far from a backup goalie at the NHL level. If we had a decent team, he wouldn't be our worry in goal. In fact he isn't a worry now!