Jim Benning Era Transaction Summary

Discussion in 'Vancouver Canucks' started by Literally, May 3, 2017.

  1. Neddam ot Sehguh

    Neddam ot Sehguh Nelhad ot Oow

    Joined:
    May 25, 2014
    Messages:
    24,728
    Likes Received:
    5,810
    Trophy Points:
    151
    Gender:
    Male
    Yeah hopefully. i hadnt really thought of having Dahlen in the lineup but he has impressed tho still wanna wait on if he makes the team or not. For that I will assume he will start in Utica, but your points stands look at this lineup:

    Baertchi Horvat Boeser
    Goldobin Pettersson Eriksson
    Lipesic Gaudette Virtanen
    Schaller Beagle Sutter
    Roussell Gaunce

    Edler Stecher
    Juolevi Tanev
    Hutton Gudbranson
    Pouliot

    Markstrom
    Demko

    That leaves Gagner, Granny, Del Zotto, and Nielsson on the outside looking IN. So trade n wave em
     
  2. VanJack

    VanJack Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2014
    Messages:
    10,665
    Likes Received:
    1,441
    Trophy Points:
    124
    It's a nice idea but Granlund and Del Zotto aren't going anywhere. Demko might beat out Nilsson, but he'll have to twice as good in training camp for that to happen. The guy I sense is very much on the bubble might be Gagner....makes that three-year contract they handed him look even worse.
     
  3. pgj98m3

    pgj98m3 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,319
    Likes Received:
    760
    Trophy Points:
    109
    Could one of Benning's supporters point to a long term contract handed out by Benning that is looking good right now?

    So no "looking like will develop" or "if x,y,or z then it will be good"
     
    y2kcanucks likes this.
  4. Literally

    Literally Better than you think

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2006
    Messages:
    15,456
    Likes Received:
    1,549
    Trophy Points:
    170
    Location:
    Blue dot on Google Maps
    Tanev.
    Seems the market has caught up to Sutter contract as well.
    Horvat is on a great one.
     
    NucksRock likes this.
  5. pgj98m3

    pgj98m3 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,319
    Likes Received:
    760
    Trophy Points:
    109
    Fair enough except for the Sutter contract..."catching up" makes it clear it is/was a bad contract and you are relying on his "production/contribution" continuing despite age and, apparently, a changed role this year.
     
  6. Melvin

    Melvin HFBoards Sponsor Sponsor

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2017
    Messages:
    7,586
    Likes Received:
    8,229
    Trophy Points:
    105
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Data Nerd
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Yeah if it's a fair contract now then it was definitely an overvalue three years ago.

    And I think he is still being paid more than he'd make in the open market, albeit not by a lot.
     
  7. VanJack

    VanJack Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2014
    Messages:
    10,665
    Likes Received:
    1,441
    Trophy Points:
    124
    I've come to the conclusion that the Canucks should stay away from trading for players or signing UFA's from the Eastern Conference. I don't know what it is, but guys like Sutter, Dorsett, Gudbranson, Eriksson and Pouliot just haven't panned out. That's why it's so hard to have much optimism for Beagle and Schaller.

    What is it? Is the Western Conference faster? Is it the travel? Why is that so many guys from East seem to struggle out West? In fact if you look at the Canuck transactions, two of their most decent deals have been for Granlund and Goldobin, both Western Conference players. And Motte, who had such a good training camp showing, is also from the West.

    Maybe just a coincidence. But I don't think so.
     
  8. petrishriekandgo

    petrishriekandgo Why not us?

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2003
    Messages:
    5,755
    Likes Received:
    1,052
    Trophy Points:
    184
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Home Page:
  9. VanJack

    VanJack Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2014
    Messages:
    10,665
    Likes Received:
    1,441
    Trophy Points:
    124
    With Gagner gone, surely the 2017 free agent frenzy by the Canucks has to go down as the worst in team history. It's an ugly list. Burmistrov to the KHl; Weircioch (now in the KHL, but never played a game for Vancouver); Rodin, went back to Europe and now in the Ducks system; Nilsson who couldn't win a game in the last three months; Del Zotto, one of the worst plus minuses of any regular d-man in the NHL; And Vanek, who at least scored regularly but was eventually flipped to Columbus for Motte.

    And yet for all this laughable ineptitude the only guy who walked the plank was the team's President, Trevor Linden.
     
  10. NucksRock

    NucksRock Registered User

    Joined:
    May 16, 2018
    Messages:
    450
    Likes Received:
    240
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Gender:
    Male
    You paying the bills? Who exactly could the canucks have picked up to fill those roles you seem to be concerned about.

    Salary matters if you're paying it

    Cap hit matters if we're in cap trouble

    Cap hit matters if there are alternatives that were better to sign

    People whine and complain about this all the time, Ericksson in particular - and yes he hasn't lived up to his contract but up to that point he was a highly effective 2 way top 6 winger who was coming off a great season, it was him or Lucic and thank god we didn't get the latter.

    As for Sutter, his value is underappreciated by many fans, just as Edler's is. He was coveted around the league last year at the deadline and will be again this year. He would have got us a first round pick last year, and will again this year. To me that says he's not over paid nor ever was.

    You have to pay up to get players in UFA unless the are awful. Sutter has played a very important stablizing role for the Canucks and is not overpaid by any means, nor ever was for what he brought. There are few better 3c's in the league who can play the shut down role as well as him, and take very heavy/hard minutes away from offensive centers

    His role is even MORE important now given you have Bo and Petey learning to be the 1/2c on the team.
     
  11. Literally

    Literally Better than you think

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2006
    Messages:
    15,456
    Likes Received:
    1,549
    Trophy Points:
    170
    Location:
    Blue dot on Google Maps
    I haven't really updated this thing since camp....

    Is there anything I'm missing in the OP?
     
  12. VanJack

    VanJack Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2014
    Messages:
    10,665
    Likes Received:
    1,441
    Trophy Points:
    124
    Just supposin': Gaudette and Gaunce are better replacements as 3-4 centers than Sutter and Beagle; and the team keeps winning without Edler and Tanev in the lineup. Does Jimbo have an unprecedented opportunity to deal some veterans to fast-track the youth movement?
     
  13. Literally

    Literally Better than you think

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2006
    Messages:
    15,456
    Likes Received:
    1,549
    Trophy Points:
    170
    Location:
    Blue dot on Google Maps
    Yes. Definitely... Sutter and Edler anyway.. but they would have to be winning differently than they have been... more definitively, organized, with the replacements not just surviving, but driving their lines.
     
  14. NucksRock

    NucksRock Registered User

    Joined:
    May 16, 2018
    Messages:
    450
    Likes Received:
    240
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Gender:
    Male
    Really hope to see an Edler waive and trade and re-sign for a home town discount as a UFA. He's having a very good year, munching minutes, blocking everything and will get pity points on the pp with EP. He could fetch us another first rounder and maybe a prospect. Let's hope he pulls a Burrows and does what's 'right for the team'
     
  15. VanJack

    VanJack Registered User

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2014
    Messages:
    10,665
    Likes Received:
    1,441
    Trophy Points:
    124
    I'm actually looking forward to this year's trade deadline....I know last year Jimbo was savaged for not grabbing some additional draft picks. But Motte and Leipsic have proven to be useful pickups for this team; and the year before, Goldobin and Dahlen. What's more impressive is that none of players Jimbo traded to acquire these kids are still with the teams that acquired them.
     
  16. Literally

    Literally Better than you think

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2006
    Messages:
    15,456
    Likes Received:
    1,549
    Trophy Points:
    170
    Location:
    Blue dot on Google Maps
    The only significant play for Benning seems to be Edler... I would not hold my breath on Edler waiving... He'll probably Sundin us.

    The less significant, but most likely move is Del Zotto for a depth pick or two.. a 3rd and 4th.. something like that... see what the market ends up looking like.
    Don't think JB will be looking to add a body in the trade.
     
  17. RonningMorrisonBooth

    RonningMorrisonBooth Support the boys!

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,131
    Likes Received:
    761
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Gudbranson, Roussel, Beagle, Horvat, Tanev, Markstrom, Sutter all looking good. Eriksson’s ok. Any others I’ve forgotten?
     
  18. vadim sharifijanov

    vadim sharifijanov ugh

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    17,417
    Likes Received:
    1,786
    Trophy Points:
    186
    Home Page:
    how often are trade deadline rentals ever with the teams that acquired them a year or two later?
     
  19. pgj98m3

    pgj98m3 Registered User

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,319
    Likes Received:
    760
    Trophy Points:
    109
    Gudbranson...hahahaha
    Roussel.....waiver wire fodder
    Beagle....meh...grossly overpaid
    Hortatory - yes very good
    Tanev...unless he’s flipped looking like the injury bug makes this a LTIR/insurance case...hardly a win
    Markstrom...right-beginning to regress to his norm-mediocre
    Sutter - barely worth it now...possiblly flip-able
    Eriksson.....how many millions/goal-give your head a shake

    Miss anything?
     
  20. RonningMorrisonBooth

    RonningMorrisonBooth Support the boys!

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,131
    Likes Received:
    761
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Roussel as a waiver wire player really speaks for itself, I won’t even touch that ...

    Beagle’s caphit is 10% less than Manny Malhotra’s was as a % of the cap and they have the same role and same statistics. You have to say Manny was even more overpaid than Beagle.

    Eriksson if you look at comparables like Hornqvist, Marleau, Lucic, Eberle, Okposo, Backes to name a few guys with pedigree who make the same money as Loui signed as free agents around the same time Loui’s production this year is in the wheelhouse plus he does all the little things right and shows our kids how to be good pros. I’m happy with the contract right now.
     
  21. Peter10

    Peter10 Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2003
    Messages:
    2,598
    Likes Received:
    1,978
    Trophy Points:
    201
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Germany
    That wrong (again of course). In Malhotras first season with the Canucks he was winning 61.7% of his faceoffs. Even the year after he was still 58.5% matching Beagles career high, while playing with an injured eye. His O-Zone starts were at 24 and 13% respectively, Beagle had 31 and 24% in his last two years in Washington.

    Manny was 5th in the Selke voting in 2011, Beagle was 24th last year. Prime Malhotra is in a different stratosphere compared to Beagle.
     
  22. RonningMorrisonBooth

    RonningMorrisonBooth Support the boys!

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2017
    Messages:
    2,131
    Likes Received:
    761
    Trophy Points:
    94
    Those stats are comparable, not too much difference in faceoff ability, points, or OZS. Thanks for making my argument for me. I can’t believe you’re using Selke votes as an argument though, that’s really weak.

    Anyway it should be said that I’m a big Manny fan and I think he was better than Beagle is but when you factor in that I think Manny took a discount to play here, I’m sure he had other much better offers, he was underpaid and Beagle didn’t take a discount to be here. I don’t think Beagle is underpaid I think the value is just right.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2018
  23. Ryp37

    Ryp37 Registered User

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2011
    Messages:
    7,285
    Likes Received:
    757
    Trophy Points:
    109
    Why argue with someone who just said the Ericksson contract is good

    Trolling 101
     
    hittes petr sykora and Peter10 like this.
  24. Peter10

    Peter10 Registered User

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2003
    Messages:
    2,598
    Likes Received:
    1,978
    Trophy Points:
    201
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Germany
    Maybe someone sacrificed a black goat to the hockey gods and now Eriksson will turn into a 30-30 player again.
     
  25. xtra

    xtra Registered User

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    Messages:
    5,031
    Likes Received:
    907
    Trophy Points:
    184
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Home Page:
    Let’s just end this b.s jay beagle faceoff prowess value once and for all.
    Jay beagle has played 471 career games and taken 4507 face offs in that time. He has a career winning percentage of 56.4% which means that he has won 2544 faceoff and lost 1963 faceoffs.
    Any center that wins their faceoffs at a 50% rate would have won 2253 faceoffs in that same period.
    That means that in his 471 games JayBeagle has won 5.39 faceoffs a game and the center at a career faceoff percentage of 50% would win 4.78 per game.
    The difference between jay beagle and the 50% faceoff guy works out to jay beagle winning 0.61 faceoffs more per game or roughly 1 more every 2 games.

    His defensive play is bad and his pk numbers as seen by advanced stats are brutal.

    He brings nothing to the table that any other vet that could be signed for a 1/2yr deal at 1 mill doesn’t

    Why the heck is that worth a 4year 3 mil per contract?
     
    MS and y2kcanucks like this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "358c248ada348a047a4b9bb27a146148"