Jets/Sens Preseason Game 5

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Cosmix

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MacArthur - Turris - Ryan
Michalek - Zibanejad - Chiasson
Lazar - Legwand - Stone
Greening - Smith - Neil
Condra
Hoffman waived

That gives you 3 rock solid, young lines and a 4th line/energy line.

I don't see Zibanejad doing enough as 2nd line center, so Legwand is my choice for 2nd line center who will get more minutes. I am not sure how the wingers will work out, but i believe playing Michalek with Legwand would create a stronger second line, with either Stone or Chiasson on RW. That would leave Zibanejad, Hoffman, one of Stone/Chiasson, and perhaps Pageau or Smith on the 3rd line.

The 4th line would be a mixed bag of players who would get little ice time: Greening, Condra, and whoever is not performing on the 3rd line any given day. :)

Lazar may get up to 9 games before going back to the Oil Kings.

Smith and Neil must stop taking minor penalties and putting the Senators on the PK. If they don't, they should be called the "Penalty Line" and sit out the games as they are not helping win games doing that!

Pageau
 

Cosmix

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Neil was great last night. He was the only vet in the line up, and was obviously there to make sure that the Jets didn't take liberties with our kids. That is his main role, and a role that every team needs. He was causing trouble all night, and stood up for the kids when needed. The 2 for shoving was ridiculous, and likely the refs trying to cool off a preseason game. Love how Neil was fired up anyways.

It should be noted that there is likely two streams of though going on simultaneously with training came, one are the guys competing for spots, and the other are the guys whom the staff are taking a good look at, but are not threatening to take a roster spot. Of this second group there are two types; there are the guys who the organization has plans for and the staff want to get an updated view of their skills, and the other are the guys that the team is having a look to decide if the organization wants to have long term plans for them. This is my simple overview of what is obviously more nuanced and complex. However, this is, in my opinion, why Prince was sent down while a guy like DD stayed up. Management likes Prince, has plans for him, but know he's not going to crack the opening night roster so there is no point holding him out of Bingo games, especially some overseas bonding. Mac already explained how happy he was with Prince, and why he was sent down. DD is getting a last long look before the organization drops him from future plans.

Same on D, Freddy is getting a nice long look to access his skills, but he will definitely be going back to Bingo, but is in the team's future. Grant and Johnson, are getting a look to see if there is a future for them in the organization. To make a more final decision more time is needed.

Murray has already explained that Lazar will have to significantly outplay a roster player if he is to stick, and I don't think he's done that. He seems like he is ready for NHL hockey, but he is not significantly better than our roster players, or the guys fighting for spots, unless space is made by clearing out players (Greening, Condra?). He is likely to be sent back.

Stone, Puempel, Hoffman, Pageau, and Robinson are all fighting neck an neck for the couple of roster spots available. Lazar has been solid, but he has not shown to be significantly better than any of these guys, and it's preseason, where all kinds of types can shine (why he has to be significantly better to secure a spot). Personally I think Puempel will be sent back to dominate in the AHL and be a quick injury call up, and I think Hoffman is on the outside looking in at this point. It also looks like Robinson is more suited to play with some offensive type players, while Pageau is so good defensively that he could secure a spot by virtue of being versatile enough to play with Neil and Smith (he could also play with scorers, but is better than Stone and Robinson in the bottom six). Smith Pageau Neil could be an awesome 4th line with punch, defence, and some scoring, like Boston's.

Cowen was better last night, while Weir was not great. He does very little well, and plays like a player who will likely be the odd man out. When Methot is ready to go, I see Boro as being a better 7th man option than Weir, for at least Boro brings an element to the team.

Personally I would like to see the forwards pan out like so:

Mac - Turris - Ryan
Mik - Zib - Stone
Chai - Leggy - Robinson
Smith - Pageau - Neil

Greening

Nice reasonable assessment. Interesting suggested lineup that I think would be entertaining to watch. Deleted players would be Condra and Hoffman, with Greening at 13th forward.

Regarding Cowen and Wiercioch, neither has impressed me. I think we need another Top 4 defenceman to add to Karlsson, Methot and Ceci. Cowen and Wiercioch still have potential, but time is running out. Wishful thinking: wouldn't it be nice if the Senators could trade one or both of them for a Top 4 defenceman who can skate or a youg forward with great potential!
 

DrunkUncleDenis

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Mar 27, 2012
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I'd do something like:

Macarthur Turris Ryan
Michalek Legwand Chiasson
Lazar Zibanejad Stone
Neil/Greening Pageau Smith, with P and S switching at Centre to see who works best.

No Condra, no Hoffman. Z has shown nothing so far for me to slot him above Legwand.

If/when Lazar gets sent back down, one of Greening/Neil/Condra slides back into the lineup. I want to avoid a 4th line of stone handed grinders, as I think we have enough bodies with skill to fill out a lineup with scoring potential on all lines.
 

Max Power

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Nov 15, 2005
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Thanks to those who wrote the post game player assessments. I haven't had a chance to watch much so far so it is appreciated.
I see conflicting opinions on Neil's game last night and am wondering where truth lays? He's a guy I really hope can turn around his game from last year. It will be a sad day when he is no longer effective. I appreciate his veteran presence and sticking up for his team mates, but he's only at his best when he's able to play a heavy forchecking game creating turnovers and creating disturbance in front of the net. If that's gone than his game is gone. I hope he gets that back

Note that I agree he should never be on the PP unless for the reason I mention. As another poster mention Mac using him last year for that also made my eyes bleed
 

Holdurbreathe

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Jun 22, 2006
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Hoffman did disappoint me. He's a guy I would like to play much better even in a pre season game. His job is not safe at this point. Other forwards have had better camps and he could be a casualty.

I wouldn't worry too much about Zibanejad, though I agree with the general consensus of his game tonight. We brought in Legwand for a reason. He's the safety blanket when Zib can't get it done. Young players are going to be wildly inconsistent. He's not ready for top line reps. That's okay. We need him to be productive in a PP/2nd/3rd line role. Personally, I don't like Chiasson as a winger for him. I'd prefer Stone or Ryan to be there as facilitators for him rather than he be a facilitator for Chiasson or Michalek or Puempel.

Not sure the bolded is a true statement, even last night I thought he was a very solid performer though he didn't get on the score sheet.
 

Holdurbreathe

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I don't see Zibanejad doing enough as 2nd line center, so Legwand is my choice for 2nd line center who will get more minutes. I am not sure how the wingers will work out, but i believe playing Michalek with Legwand would create a stronger second line, with either Stone or Chiasson on RW. That would leave Zibanejad, Hoffman, one of Stone/Chiasson, and perhaps Pageau or Smith on the 3rd line.

The 4th line would be a mixed bag of players who would get little ice time: Greening, Condra, and whoever is not performing on the 3rd line any given day. :)

Lazar may get up to 9 games before going back to the Oil Kings.

Smith and Neil must stop taking minor penalties and putting the Senators on the PK. If they don't, they should be called the "Penalty Line" and sit out the games as they are not helping win games doing that!

Pageau

Zibanejad has been fine through camp and considering he has faced top line NHL competition in both the TO and Winnipeg game, I think people are being too quick to judge.

The Friday and Saturday games should provide a better idea of how Michalek-Zib-Chaisson will fair playing behind the Turris line.
 

Holdurbreathe

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Jun 22, 2006
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MacArthur - Turris - Ryan
Michalek - Zibanejad - Chiasson
Lazar - Legwand - Stone
Greening - Smith - Neil
Condra
Hoffman waived

That gives you 3 rock solid, young lines and a 4th line/energy line.

The potential is certainly there, but Stone has to show a lot more when not playing with the top line guys.

IMO last night he really didn't look like he belonged for the most part.
 

Holdurbreathe

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Jun 22, 2006
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Ceci was the bright spot for me tonight - looked poised under pressure, was calm moving the puck... consistently made good decisions all game, I can't think of a time where he was caught flat-footed or out of position.

Once his offensive game finally clicks in the NHL (on a consistent basis, not just flashes here and there), this kid is going to be a huge anchor for our blueline.


As far as "guys who looked like they had no business still being in camp" is concerned: Johnson & Grant, I'm looking at you two. The sooner they can head back to Bingo, the better.

Ceci played an ok game, still needs to use his big body to his advantage more often.

I do agree that Johnson & Grant shouldn't have been there, IMO that really disadvantaged the young forwards and caused many shifts to be nothing but puck chasing exercises.

IMO the only reason Mac would have done that was to make it harder on the bubble player and it did. :D

I hate to imagine how it might have looked had Boro not got a "bobo".
 

Burrowsaurus

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Mar 20, 2013
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Regarding Hoffman: we get it that he is getting better with time. But since he joined the Sens, he got recalled 6 times (22-Dec-11, 16-Apr-12, 12-Jan-13, 26-Mar-13, 02-Dec-13, 24-Feb-14) and I can't recall when he made a good impression.

I know the coach didn't give him opportunities to succeed by matching him with unskilled players but he has to shine during those times. He hasn't done it yet.

Yesterday, Pageau found a way to impress the coach even if he was on the 4th line.

Sorry Hoff, I think you're going back to Bingo.

Regarding Wiercioch: Same as above, Claesson did more to impress the coach than Wiercioch. Wier has been given the chance and he's not taking it.


Two players Wiercioch and Hoffman in the same situation. But in the case of Hoffman, you're ready to give him a break, why?

in his last call up he was one of our better players. caused loads of havoc for the other team.
 

Holdurbreathe

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I don't see how they didn't call Klingberg for holding the stick, when Smith was trying to pull it out of his hand.

Call them both or call neither. We're the Senators. We get the lone penalty on these plays consistently.

I agree, to blame Smith for what happened on that play is just showing one's personal bias.

Similar thing happened on the first goal when a Jet held Grant's stick and there was no call that resulted in the goal.
 

DrunkUncleDenis

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Mar 27, 2012
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Not sure the bolded is a true statement, even last night I thought he was a very solid performer though he didn't get on the score sheet.

Hoffman just seems so darn jittery all the time. It's not his first game in the Show anymore, he needs to settle down. He is ineffective the way he is playing right now. He is handling the puck like a grenade, rushing the play, and not taking the time to pick his spots when shooting on net. The skill has been evident since last year, but from what I've seen he hasn't taken any great steps forward lately. Maybe he can settle in a bit better at the start of the year (if he even makes it, which is questionable right now) but in the end, I don't think he will stick with this team.
 

Holdurbreathe

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And Wiercioch also had his great moments. So why some people are more willing to excuse Hoffman than Wiercioch?

PW has to play the game harder, he just seems like one of those guys that hasn't got a mean bone in his body.

There are times in a game when a player just has to assert/force their will on an opponent.

PW just hasn't done it and if that continues I really don't see how he will become an effective NHL defenseman.

PW has the skill, size and strength to be a good NHL D-man IMO, it is looking like he lacks the compete level or desire that is necessary.

Hoffman does all the right things for a 3rd line checking forward and has shown good offensive skills & production at every previous level.

At this moment in time, he is probably the best guy to start the season as the 3rd line LWer.

That said, if he can't bring his offensive talents to bear in the NHL, then maybe Sens management may feel that's the reason they waned him in Ottawa, so just move on now.

The Hoffman decision could go either way MO and will most likely be decided by other players at this point.
 

bonehead

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And Wiercioch also had his great moments. So why some people are more willing to excuse Hoffman than Wiercioch?

Because he can skate, and this is a slow team. Other than Pageau (and maybe Lazar), has anyone else competing for 3rd/4th line minutes (Puempel, Smith, Greening, Neil, Robinson, Condra) shown more?
 

Sensinitis

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Aug 5, 2012
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There's no reason to not keep Hoffman even if he doesn't pan out completely.

He's extremely fast, he's good defensively and he's good on the PP. He can be like Perreault at the very least. ~15 goals, 30-40 pts.

No problem with that.
 

Holdurbreathe

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Jun 22, 2006
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Hoffman just seems so darn jittery all the time. It's not his first game in the Show anymore, he needs to settle down. He is ineffective the way he is playing right now. He is handling the puck like a grenade, rushing the play, and not taking the time to pick his spots when shooting on net. The skill has been evident since last year, but from what I've seen he hasn't taken any great steps forward lately. Maybe he can settle in a bit better at the start of the year (if he even makes it, which is questionable right now) but in the end, I don't think he will stick with this team.

Hoffman has created opportunities and is doing exactly what the coaches have probably told him to do, shoot the puck.

The unfortunate part for Hoff is nothing is going in.

I haven't seen him handle the puck like a grenade, for the most part I think he has been quite good and his defensive reads and play very good.

IMO the potential for Hoffman to be waived is,
1. do Sens management believe Lazar is ready and if so,
2. does having Lazar on the 3rd line right wing and shifting Ryan to the left side make the Sens a better team?

Something like the following,
MacArthur-Turris-Stone
Ryan-Zibanejad-Chaisson
Michalek-Legwand-Lazar
Greening-Smith-Robinson/Neil/Condra
 

Vesa Awesaka

#KeepTheSenate
Jul 4, 2013
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PW has to play the game harder, he just seems like one of those guys that hasn't got a mean bone in his body.

There are times in a game when a player just has to assert/force their will on an opponent.

PW just hasn't done it and if that continues I really don't see how he will become an effective NHL defenseman.

PW has the skill, size and strength to be a good NHL D-man IMO, it is looking like he lacks the compete level or desire that is necessary.

Hoffman does all the right things for a 3rd line checking forward and has shown good offensive skills & production at every previous level.

At this moment in time, he is probably the best guy to start the season as the 3rd line LWer.

That said, if he can't bring his offensive talents to bear in the NHL, then maybe Sens management may feel that's the reason they waned him in Ottawa, so just move on now.

The Hoffman decision could go either way MO and will most likely be decided by other players at this point.

Watching last nights game i though Wier was involved physically and did a decent job under pressure or battling along the boards. Hoffman definitely was not involved physically despite having one ok hit. The guy never finished his checks and didnt really use his body in board battles
 

Vesa Awesaka

#KeepTheSenate
Jul 4, 2013
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Because he can skate, and this is a slow team. Other than Pageau (and maybe Lazar), has anyone else competing for 3rd/4th line minutes (Puempel, Smith, Greening, Neil, Robinson, Condra) shown more?

Robinson and Prince(i know he was sent down) imo both showed more than hoffman
 
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Boruto

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Jun 27, 2011
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hey y'all. i have a hockey pool question i was hoping someone can help me with.

it's points only and it's regarding your defense which is a bit of a mystery to me.

what's it looking like and are there any stand outs? How's Corvo looking?
 

Vesa Awesaka

#KeepTheSenate
Jul 4, 2013
18,236
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hey y'all. i have a hockey pool question i was hoping someone can help me with.

it's points only and it's regarding your defense which is a bit of a mystery to me.

what's it looking like and are there any stand outs? How's Corvo looking?

Corvo does not play in the NHL anymore
 

Dysentery

Ottawa Senators
Sep 14, 2011
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hey y'all. i have a hockey pool question i was hoping someone can help me with.

it's points only and it's regarding your defense which is a bit of a mystery to me.

what's it looking like and are there any stand outs? How's Corvo looking?

I think Corvo got another tatty this offseason....hockey wise he is not part of the organization.
 

Holdurbreathe

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Jun 22, 2006
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I think Patty has the compete just doesn't have the physical strength to allow him to compete..6' 5" a buck ninety five and not explosive.

PW is over 200 now I believe.

I'm not sure about the compete, though I don't deny he wants to play, there is a difference.

Example, Neil started a scrum, everyone paired up, PW with a Jets player who was generally roughing him up and yet absolutely no response from PW.

Now I realize he isn't a fighter, but at some point in time he has find it in himself to push back, to assert himself.
 
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