Post-Game Talk: Jets lose to the Hawks 4-1.

[surixon]

Not so sure how a coaching change improves the Jets meagre talent level, better yet put Noel behind the Hawks bench and guess which team still would have won.

Who was the guy who gave Buff and Wheeler those big contracts?

Buff was horrible once again and it's becoming a pattern. He was on the ice for all 4 Hawks goals and in typical Buff fashion out of position on all of them.

Wheeler still hasn't put his game together this year, his nightly compete level is sub-par. Starting to see why despite his physical tools why the Bruins gave up on him, he's soft.

With a healthy Trouba and maybe even Redmond in the line-up, you move Buff for a forward.

Agreed that Buff needs to go! He is also the one core piece that Chevy didn't sign which makes trading him more realistic.

 

[Prairiehockey]

I can't see how Huddy can continue to escape blame for how inconsistent our D plays.

 

[tbcwpg]

This game was lost in the 1st period between the 4:08 and 6:08 mark, and the 14:33 to 16:33 mark. The "power play" is atrocious.

This game just further highlighted the problems that myself and some others have been ranting on about in threads dedicated to which of our equally average goalies should be starting. The mistakes in this game are what need to be fixed. Special teams. Blown coverage. Turnovers. O-zone play.

Consistency. Everyone is guilty of being inconsistent, from the net on out. The problem with this team is that, apart from the rare "everyone is good" game, like against Detroit, or the "everyone is bad" game, like the home game against Nashville, there are too many games when most of the team is good, but one or two are terrible (eg. goaltending, team defence, etc), or vice versa.

Byfuglien does deserve to be singled out for his horrendous effort, though. Ouch.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Some are speculating that Evander Kane is on the verge of being traded.

That's exactly what we need to do! Trade the one single player who gives a **** night in and night out, plays non stop, arrived early for Training Camp to start working with his projected team (which is now disbanded) and to help out the prospects.

Awesome!!!!!

**(BTW, I know this isn't you saying this allan)

 

[LadyJet26]

That's exactly what we need to do! Trade the one single player who gives a **** night in and night out, plays non stop, arrived early for Training Camp to start working with his projected team (which is now disbanded) and to help out the prospects.

Awesome!!!!!

**(BTW, I know this isn't you saying this allan)

This.

Let's trade Buff or Wheeler. As much as I love Wheeler (has more to do with how good looking he is. Definitely a fan girl of his) he just annoys the crap out of me.

 

[mzappa]

Fun night in Chicago, regardless of the disappointing loss.

Great fans, minus a few drunks in the 300s --- but thats expected anywhere!

More than a few "Thank You, Winnipeg for Toews/Keith/Sharp" comments.
Interesting they were the 3-stars, all born in Winnipeg.

 

[Gump Hasek]

Can’t take it any longer, so I’ll chime in now…

This place is an echo chamber. Many of the same people that were crying fire the coach in the preseason have repeated themselves ad nauseum ever since, both here and on twitter; you are a repetitive bunch. A few of us conversely could see that this team lacked the required horses from the start of the season. They have some talent for sure, but some of it lacks the will to deploy their individual talents effectively in the manner required to win on a regular basis in the West. Then there are those here that went into the season with the clearly unrealistic expectations that this was a playoff team; some of those folks now have also now joined the fire the coach brigade and some even want a big trade; those people are either unable or unwilling to see that their expectations relative to the roster were far too high, so now they want to make panic moves as a result.

I suspect the Jets management however won’t make any panic moves but rather will continue to enact their plan. They are smart enough to realize and assess that the eventual return of a healthy Trouba will take some of the pressure off the balance of the D. He was already at the point where he was beginning to take some of Enstrom’s PP time away and was eating huge minutes back there every night. Hopefully he’ll be back soon as he will provide some massive D relief. Seriously, they were missing a top-4 D last night (Trouba, arguably near top-2 level now), and Kane, and some of you are panicked by the end result? Yikes.

My own analysis is that this remains a very flawed roster however and surely management sees that as well. They’ve a horrid D mix for example, and probably need to move someone like a Buff, but likely won’t do so until Trouba proves he can take over upon his return. That has probably been long in their plans anyway though. They’ve problems in goal and still also need to upgrade upfront as well. That myriad of problems in the player personnel department won’t be solved by making a panic move like firing the coach right now however. Those problems are structural in nature and require long-term change; in other words, a rash trade and firing the coach right now won’t prompt enough change to matter this season, unless your plan is to trade 40% of the roster that is. I suspect that if they make a move over the near-term it will be smaller in nature, perhaps bring in an Ott, or Hartnell, or a Chris Neil-type, so they have some more compete upfront. If they were to eventually trade a piece like a Buff or Kane, it won’t be done out of panic to save this season but rather will be done because it has perhaps already long been in their plans. These guys running the team are the antithesis of the fire the coach and make a rash trade brigade. Any substantive change will have already been long-planned out in other words. They’ll likely just sell off some bit parts at the deadline and will patiently evolve from within over time. More patience is clearly required here, much more in fact than some here have displayed.

Carry on as you were.

 

[RonJon]

Can’t take it any longer, so I’ll chime in now…

This place is an echo chamber. Many of the same people that were crying fire the coach in the preseason have repeated themselves ad nauseum ever since, both here and on twitter; you are a repetitive bunch. A few of us conversely could see that this team lacked the required horses from the start of the season. They have some talent for sure, but some of it lacks the will to deploy their individual talents effectively in the manner required to win on a regular basis in the West. Then there are those here that went into the season with the clearly unrealistic expectations that this was a playoff team; some of those folks now have also now joined the fire the coach brigade and some even want a big trade; those people are either unable or unwilling to see that their expectations relative to the roster were far too high, so now they want to make panic moves as a result.

I suspect the Jets management however won’t make any panic moves but rather will continue to enact their plan. They are smart enough to realize and assess that the eventual return of a healthy Trouba will take some of the pressure off the balance of the D. He was already at the point where he was beginning to take some of Enstrom’s PP time away and was eating huge minutes back there every night. Hopefully he’ll be back soon as he will provide some massive D relief. Seriously, they were missing a top-4 D last night (Trouba, arguably near top-2 level now), and Kane, and some of you are panicked by the end result? Yikes.

My own analysis is that this remains a very flawed roster however and surely management sees that as well. They’ve a horrid D mix for example, and probably need to move someone like a Buff, but likely won’t do so until Trouba proves he can take over upon his return. That has probably been long in their plans anyway though. They’ve problems in goal and still also need to upgrade upfront as well. That myriad of problems in the player personnel department won’t be solved by making a panic move like firing the coach right now however. Those problems are structural in nature and require long-term change; in other words, a rash trade and firing the coach right now won’t prompt enough change to matter this season, unless your plan is to trade 40% of the roster that is. I suspect that if they make a move over the near-term it will be smaller in nature, perhaps bring in an Ott, or Hartnell, or a Chris Neil-type, so they have some more compete upfront. If they were to eventually trade a piece like a Buff or Kane, it won’t be done out of panic to save this season but rather will be done because it has perhaps already long been in their plans. These guys running the team are the antithesis of the fire the coach and make a rash trade brigade. Any substantive change will have already been long-planned out in other words. They’ll likely just sell off some bit parts at the deadline and will patiently evolve from within over time. More patience is clearly required here, much more in fact than some here have displayed.

Carry on as you were.

A Voice of Reason? Quickly, prepare the fire, tar and feathers.

Well said Gump

 

[Guerzy]

Can’t take it any longer, so I’ll chime in now…

This place is an echo chamber. Many of the same people that were crying fire the coach in the preseason have repeated themselves ad nauseum ever since, both here and on twitter; you are a repetitive bunch. A few of us conversely could see that this team lacked the required horses from the start of the season. They have some talent for sure, but some of it lacks the will to deploy their individual talents effectively in the manner required to win on a regular basis in the West. Then there are those here that went into the season with the clearly unrealistic expectations that this was a playoff team; some of those folks now have also now joined the fire the coach brigade and some even want a big trade; those people are either unable or unwilling to see that their expectations relative to the roster were far too high, so now they want to make panic moves as a result.

I suspect the Jets management however won’t make any panic moves but rather will continue to enact their plan. They are smart enough to realize and assess that the eventual return of a healthy Trouba will take some of the pressure off the balance of the D. He was already at the point where he was beginning to take some of Enstrom’s PP time away and was eating huge minutes back there every night. Hopefully he’ll be back soon as he will provide some massive D relief. Seriously, they were missing a top-4 D last night (Trouba, arguably near top-2 level now), and Kane, and some of you are panicked by the end result? Yikes.

My own analysis is that this remains a very flawed roster however and surely management sees that as well. They’ve a horrid D mix for example, and probably need to move someone like a Buff, but likely won’t do so until Trouba proves he can take over upon his return. That has probably been long in their plans anyway though. They’ve problems in goal and still also need to upgrade upfront as well. That myriad of problems in the player personnel department won’t be solved by making a panic move like firing the coach right now however. Those problems are structural in nature and require long-term change; in other words, a rash trade and firing the coach right now won’t prompt enough change to matter this season, unless you plan is to trade 40% of the roster that is. I suspect that if they make a move over the near-term it will be smaller in nature, perhaps bring in an Ott, or Hartnell, or a Chris Neil-type, so they have some more compete upfront. If they were to eventually trade a piece like a Buff or Kane, it won’t be done out of panic to save this season but rather will be done because it has perhaps already long been in their plans. These guys running the team are the antithesis of the fire the coach and make a rash trade brigade. Any substantive change will have already been long-planned out in other words. They’ll likely just sell off some bit parts at the deadline and will patiently evolve from within over time. More patience is clearly required here, much more in fact than some here have displayed.

Carry on as you were.

You're contradicting yourself in your statements, Gump.

At the beginning of your post you touch on the fans unrealistic expectations, and that some folks want a big trade ... as if it is a poorly constructed idea or mindset.

Then at the end of your post you suggest that by your own analysis this remains a very flawed roster, and probably need to move someone like Byfuglien (which would fall under the category of a big trade).


One of these comments is not like the other. When other fans suggest a roster move should be made they have unrealistic expectations (99% suggest Byfuglien, like you are)... yet at the end of your post you suggest we likely need to trade someone (Byfuglien).

I fail to see how you are right here and others are wrong.

 

[Prot]

I can't see how Huddy can continue to escape blame for how inconsistent our D plays.

Absolutely agree with this. There are a lot of fundamental blunders going on.

 

[tbcwpg]

You're contradicting yourself in your statements, Gump.

At the beginning of your post you touch on the fans unrealistic expectations, and that some folks want a big trade ... as if it is a poorly constructed idea or mindset.

Then at the end of your post you suggest that by your own analysis this remains a very flawed roster, and probably need to move someone like Byfuglien (which would fall under the category of a big trade).


One of these comments is not like the other. When other fans suggest a roster move should be made they have unrealistic expectations (99% suggest Byfuglien, like you are)... yet at the end of your post you suggest we likely need to trade someone (Byfuglien).

I fail to see how you are right here and others are wrong.

Certainly don't want to put words in Gump's mouth, but my interpretation of his post is that many believe that this team is one or two fixes away from being a playoff team, and he's saying that is not the case. This will take time to fix.

My idea of panic moves aren't necessarily trading Buff, since he's our most marketable piece and one that makes sense from a position of strength perspective. Panic moves are firing the coach 17 games into the season when the team has proven that they don't want to, or aren't capable of, putting in a solid effort night in and night out. Panic moves are making a trade for yet another goalie right now when the team is more than just a goalie change away from being fixed.

 

[sipowicz]

Can’t take it any longer, so I’ll chime in now…

This place is an echo chamber. Many of the same people that were crying fire the coach in the preseason have repeated themselves ad nauseum ever since, both here and on twitter; you are a repetitive bunch. A few of us conversely could see that this team lacked the required horses from the start of the season. They have some talent for sure, but some of it lacks the will to deploy their individual talents effectively in the manner required to win on a regular basis in the West. Then there are those here that went into the season with the clearly unrealistic expectations that this was a playoff team; some of those folks now have also now joined the fire the coach brigade and some even want a big trade; those people are either unable or unwilling to see that their expectations relative to the roster were far too high, so now they want to make panic moves as a result.

I suspect the Jets management however won’t make any panic moves but rather will continue to enact their plan. They are smart enough to realize and assess that the eventual return of a healthy Trouba will take some of the pressure off the balance of the D. He was already at the point where he was beginning to take some of Enstrom’s PP time away and was eating huge minutes back there every night. Hopefully he’ll be back soon as he will provide some massive D relief. Seriously, they were missing a top-4 D last night (Trouba, arguably near top-2 level now), and Kane, and some of you are panicked by the end result? Yikes.

My own analysis is that this remains a very flawed roster however and surely management sees that as well. They’ve a horrid D mix for example, and probably need to move someone like a Buff, but likely won’t do so until Trouba proves he can take over upon his return. That has probably been long in their plans anyway though. They’ve problems in goal and still also need to upgrade upfront as well. That myriad of problems in the player personnel department won’t be solved by making a panic move like firing the coach right now however. Those problems are structural in nature and require long-term change; in other words, a rash trade and firing the coach right now won’t prompt enough change to matter this season, unless your plan is to trade 40% of the roster that is. I suspect that if they make a move over the near-term it will be smaller in nature, perhaps bring in an Ott, or Hartnell, or a Chris Neil-type, so they have some more compete upfront. If they were to eventually trade a piece like a Buff or Kane, it won’t be done out of panic to save this season but rather will be done because it has perhaps already long been in their plans. These guys running the team are the antithesis of the fire the coach and make a rash trade brigade. Any substantive change will have already been long-planned out in other words. They’ll likely just sell off some bit parts at the deadline and will patiently evolve from within over time. More patience is clearly required here, much more in fact than some here have displayed.

Carry on as you were.

Good post, despite what many in here think a coaching change will do (very little), the Jets just don't have the talent period. That being said the high number of penalties taken by the team is on the coaching staff and if the team had some leaders on them to. I remember a bunch of you saying Eakins should have been the Jets new coach, anyone still want Eakins?

Some also like Chevy's slow and steady path of building through the draft, well guess what, that's a crap shoot and even with high picks not a guarantee (ask the Oilers). The Jets team chemistry just isn't right and a trade is needed ASAP. Buff is the first guy I would move, his future as a D man doesn't look bright.

PS And NO Gump bringing Burmi back won't solve all our problems!

 

[Positive]

You're contradicting yourself in your statements, Gump.

At the beginning of your post you touch on the fans unrealistic expectations, and that some folks want a big trade ... as if it is a poorly constructed idea or mindset.

Then at the end of your post you suggest that by your own analysis this remains a very flawed roster, and probably need to move someone like Byfuglien (which would fall under the category of a big trade).


One of these comments is not like the other. When other fans suggest a roster move should be made they have unrealistic expectations (99% suggest Byfuglien, like you are)... yet at the end of your post you suggest we likely need to trade someone (Byfuglien).

I fail to see how you are right here and others are wrong.

Well, I think the difference is that there's some semblance of risk-management going on in Gump's suggestion of a move. Need to ensure that someone (Trouba) is ready to move up. Also the use of the word 'probably' in 'probably needs to move' means that he's not 100% sure the move needs to be made. Which IMHO, is a good thing. You need to be sure.

This is in contrast to some other posts which are more to the tune of 'trade X person immediately because he is a problem', or 'fire x person immediately but I don't know who to replace him with', because there is no risk-assessment or mitigation of risk involved in the demands. Also many of these requests lack anything more than anecdotal evidence gathered while under observation bias.

 

[Grind]

You're contradicting yourself in your statements, Gump.

At the beginning of your post you touch on the fans unrealistic expectations, and that some folks want a big trade ... as if it is a poorly constructed idea or mindset.

Then at the end of your post you suggest that by your own analysis this remains a very flawed roster, and probably need to move someone like Byfuglien (which would fall under the category of a big trade).


One of these comments is not like the other. When other fans suggest a roster move should be made they have unrealistic expectations (99% suggest Byfuglien, like you are)... yet at the end of your post you suggest we likely need to trade someone (Byfuglien).

I fail to see how you are right here and others are wrong.

well said, i was about to post essentially the same thing.

Look, I'm not torn about last nights loss. We can lose every game to Chicago this year 100-1 and I won't worry about the state of the team because I agree that Chicago, is, to a man, a better team then we are.


That being said there seems to be a weird dichotomty that if you want change A)you're an impatient and unrealistic stupid head for not knowing this team would suck.

but at the same time B) this management group isn't to blame for this team sucking.

you can't have it both ways.

Either this team sucks, due to managements decisions, and we should be rebuilding ( or at least actively pursuing new talent) or B)this team is underperforming and management has acquired good pieces, just needs some tweaking.

Signign your RFA's to long term deals with NTC's, trading a couple picks for roster players, and signing decent UFA's (at the time of signing) doesn't sound like rebuilding. It doesn't sound like management knew this team was gonna suck and was content to sit and wait.

Look, you don't have to trade players for picks and go full tankmode, but theres absolutely no point in keeping players around that have significant value if your not planning on doing anything with them in the next 3 years. You can move them for younger assets. Management hasn't done that.

I belive('d) in this core, but for them to keep my faith they needed to progress this season. They haven't. I feel they still could with a slight shakeup/coaching change/getting a goal tender. Standing pat and being patient is not an option at this point. All it's going to do is keep you out of the playoffs, depreciate your existing assets (prime aged players aging), and not give you a leg up in drafting (Hint: 29 other teams get to draft 7 players a year and work on their youth movement too).

I just don't understand how anyone can be happy with that.

 

[Gump Hasek]

You're contradicting yourself in your statements, Gump.

At the beginning of your post you touch on the fans unrealistic expectations, and that some folks want a big trade ... as if it is a poorly constructed idea or mindset.

Then at the end of your post you suggest that by your own analysis this remains a very flawed roster, and probably need to move someone like Byfuglien (which would fall under the category of a big trade).


One of these comments is not like the other. When other fans suggest a roster move should be made they have unrealistic expectations (99% suggest Byfuglien, like you are)... yet at the end of your post you suggest we likely need to trade someone (Byfuglien).

I fail to see how you are right here and others are wrong.

I've no interest in getting into a long argument with you here, so I'll just suggest that you are taking my words out of context and leave it at that. I'm saying that, with or without Byfuglien, from day one, they weren't good enough. He represents but a part of the problem. Change on this franchise will eventually come because it has long-been planned, not to address the short-term issues that were evident to some just recently. That is where we differ. Some are crying to make change because change is due right now; I'm saying it has always been due and will not occur because of where they sit in the standings but rather may occur because it would have occurred eventually regardless via planning, whenever it happens.

Calling for a coaching change and a trade does not address that much of the roster still left will still need to be turned over afterward. They aren't good enough and never were. Change is inevitable regardless.

 

[Guerzy]

Well, I think the difference is that there's some semblance of risk-management going on in Gump's suggestion of a move. Need to ensure that someone (Trouba) is ready to move up. Also the use of the word 'probably' in 'probably needs to move' means that he's not 100% sure the move needs to be made. Which IMHO, is a good thing. You need to be sure.

This is in contrast to some other posts which are more to the tune of 'trade X person immediately because he is a problem', or 'fire x person immediately but I don't know who to replace him with', because there is no risk-assessment or mitigation of risk involved in the demands. Also many of these requests lack anything more than anecdotal evidence gathered while under observation bias.

I see your point, but he's still making the suggestion that Byfuglien should likely be traded, as many others are. Add in a word here and there, but it doesn't change the end game and what many are saying.

Sure some may be more bold or up front in how they say it, but both are indicating the same things. How one is off base and the other isn't doesn't make much sense.

 

[Guerzy]

I've no interest in getting into a long argument with you here, so I'll just suggest that you are taking my words out of context and leave it at that. I'm saying that, with or without Byfuglien, from day one, they weren't good enough. He is but a part of the problem. Change on this franchise will eventually come because it has long-been planned, not to address the short-term issues that are evident right now. That is where we differ. Some are crying to make change because change is due right now; I'm saying it has always been due and will not occur because of where they sit in the standings but rather may occur because it would have occurred eventually regardless. Calling for a coaching change and a trade does not address that much of the roster still left will still need to be turned over afterward. They aren't good enough and never were. Change is inevitable regardless.

I actually agree with a lot of what you are saying here. I don't think one move here or another there will magically fix this team, I think the issues run pretty deep. With that being said, we're at a fork in the road here where at some point I believe we'll have to make some changes in order to help this team one day endure success.

In my own opinion that starts with trading a piece like Byfuglien (many can agree he's a logical piece to move?) and firing Noel. One step at a time, one move at a time, I believe if things are done we can eventually be better for it.

I think we're relatively on the same page, to be honest.

 

[Duke749]

On the bright side, it wouldn't matter if Pavs or Monty were in net because we were gonna lose this game regardless.

Lots to hate, lots to not like, only a tad to like.

 

[surixon]

Well, I think the difference is that there's some semblance of risk-management going on in Gump's suggestion of a move. Need to ensure that someone (Trouba) is ready to move up. Also the use of the word 'probably' in 'probably needs to move' means that he's not 100% sure the move needs to be made. Which IMHO, is a good thing. You need to be sure.

This is in contrast to some other posts which are more to the tune of 'trade X person immediately because he is a problem', or 'fire x person immediately but I don't know who to replace him with', because there is no risk-assessment or mitigation of risk involved in the demands. Also many of these requests lack anything more than anecdotal evidence gathered while under observation bias.

I agree with the risk reward aspect due to our d injuries but at the same time there is a risk to holding onto him if he continues to play as he did last night. There are also market considerations to factor in, let's say we have a desperate Philly team that is ready to overpay, do you take the deal or do you wait and hope the deal is still there when Trouba looks ready. No real easy answer to that!

 

[Guerzy]

well said, i was about to post essentially the same thing.

Look, I'm not torn about last nights loss. We can lose every game to Chicago this year 100-1 and I won't worry about the state of the team because I agree that Chicago, is, to a man, a better team then we are.


That being said there seems to be a weird dichotomty that if you want change A)you're an impatient and unrealistic stupid head for not knowing this team would suck.

but at the same time B) this management group isn't to blame for this team sucking.

you can't have it both ways.

Either this team sucks, due to managements decisions, and we should be rebuilding ( or at least actively pursuing new talent) or B)this team is underperforming and management has acquired good pieces, just needs some tweaking.

Signign your RFA's to long term deals with NTC's, trading a couple picks for roster players, and signing decent UFA's (at the time of signing) doesn't sound like rebuilding. It doesn't sound like management knew this team was gonna suck and was content to sit and wait.

Look, you don't have to trade players for picks and go full tankmode, but theres absolutely no point in keeping players around that have significant value if your not planning on doing anything with them in the next 3 years. You can move them for younger assets. Management hasn't done that.

I belive('d) in this core, but for them to keep my faith they needed to progress this season. They haven't. I feel they still could with a slight shakeup/coaching change/getting a goal tender. Standing pat and being patient is not an option at this point. All it's going to do is keep you out of the playoffs, depreciate your existing assets (prime aged players aging), and not give you a leg up in drafting (Hint: 29 other teams get to draft 7 players a year and work on their youth movement too).

I just don't understand how anyone can be happy with that.

Agree with you, Grind. We're pretty well thinking much of the same here.

To be honest, who knows who is right here. If we make a trade and fire Noel, is there a chance we turn around like St. Louis did in a relatively short amount of time? Absolutely there is a chance. St. Louis' core was VERY comparable to what we have right now as of two seasons ago when they fired Davis Payne and recently in that time made a big roster move/trade with Colorado a few months prior to change things up a bit in the room and on the roster.

A couple bold moves can change a teams direction. Rather quickly, and St. Louis is living proof of that to T.

But again, who is right and who is wrong? who is on target and who is delusional and off base? ... nobody knows that until if/when this organization decides to makes some moves. We'll only see what works when/if we do something to try and fix what is currently evidently broken and not working.

 

[Gump Hasek]

Agree with you, grind. We're pretty well thinking much of the same here.

To be honest, who knows who is right here. If we make a trade and fire Noel, is there a chance we turn around like St. Louis did in a relatively short amount of time? Absolutely there is a chance. St. Louis' core was VERY comparable to what we have right now as of two seasons ago when they fired Davis Payne and recently in that time made a big roster move/trade with Colorado a few months prior.

Some moves can change a teams direction. Rather quickly, and St. Louis is living proof of that to T.

But again, who is right and who is wrong? who is on target and who is delusional and off base? ... nobody knows that until if/when this organization decided to makes some moves. We'll only see what works when/if we do something to try and fix what is currently evidently broken and not working.

But they aren't analogous situations at all though. St. Louis didn't just rebuild their minor league organization when they made those moves. They made those coaching and trade moves from the standpoint of having a solid minor system behind them. They had organizational depth in other words. In fact, the two teams couldn't be any different, both now and then.

Winnipeg is currently in the process of flushing their minor league from the standpoint of moving out Thrasher picks and moving in TNSE picks, and they just freshly just built a "new" AHL team when one didn't previously exist in Thrasherville. They lack depth. St. Louis conversely made those moves with minor league depth support at that time that doesn't exist here yet. They conversely had depth.

St. Louis have in fact also since cut their AHL team and now instead farm out their prospects to Chicago, just like the Thrashers once did. They are franchises moving in diametrically opposed directions.

The two situations are not at all analogous in fact. I do applaud your attempt to draw a parallel where one doesn't exist however.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Agree with you, Grind. We're pretty well thinking much of the same here.

To be honest, who knows who is right here. If we make a trade and fire Noel, is there a chance we turn around like St. Louis did in a relatively short amount of time? Absolutely there is a chance. St. Louis' core was VERY comparable to what we have right now as of two seasons ago when they fired Davis Payne and recently in that time made a big roster move/trade with Colorado a few months prior to change things up a bit in the room and on the roster.

A couple bold moves can change a teams direction. Rather quickly, and St. Louis is living proof of that to T.

So your position is that the next Ken Hitchcock is out there just waiting for the Jets to call him. Who exactly is that anyways?

I could try citing you the Flyers this year - they did the "bold move" of firing Laviolette, but it doesn't seem to have helped them.

You can cherry pick an example to prove just about any point, but stats seem to show that a mid-season firing of the coach does not help.

 

[Guerzy]

But they aren't analogous situations at all though. St. Louis didn't just rebuild their minor league organization when they made those moves. They made those coaching and trade moves from the standpoint of having a solid minor system behind them. They had organizational depth in other words. In fact, the two teams couldn't be any different, both now and then.

Winnipeg is currently in the process of flushing their minor league from the standpoint of moving out Thrasher picks and moving in TNSE picks, and they just freshly they built a "new" AHL team when one didn't previously exist in Thrasherville. St. Louis conversely made those moves with minor league depth support that doesn't exist here yet. St. Louis have in fact also since cut their AHL team and now instead farm out their prospects to Chicago, just like the Thrashers once did.

The two situations are not at all analogous in fact. I do applaud your attempt to draw a parallel where one doesn't exist however.

Did you look at St. Louis' prospect system at the time of the 2010-2011 season as they began to alter what wasn't working?

Jaden Schwartz, Vladimir Teresenko, Ian Cole, were atop the prospect ranks.

Let's not overrate prospects and systems here, because generally speaking, they are indeed overrated.

The Jets aren't in an absolute prime position, but with 3 drafts under our belts, 2 first-round picks at the ages of 20 and 19 just making way, with Josh Morrissey in the pipeline, others starting their AHL careers and the rest fulfilling their junior commitments... we are not that far off 29 other NHL teams.

Then you carry on to the "core" of each team, the issues these "cores" and teams had, the head coaches, etc...

I won't force my opinions on you, but in my opinion the teams paths here are very comparable. Not exact, nothing is rarely an eye for an eye... but they are comparable, in my own opinion.

 

[King Woodballs]

Can’t take it any longer, so I’ll chime in now…

This place is an echo chamber. Many of the same people that were crying fire the coach in the preseason have repeated themselves ad nauseum ever since, both here and on twitter; you are a repetitive bunch. A few of us conversely could see that this team lacked the required horses from the start of the season. They have some talent for sure, but some of it lacks the will to deploy their individual talents effectively in the manner required to win on a regular basis in the West. Then there are those here that went into the season with the clearly unrealistic expectations that this was a playoff team; some of those folks now have also now joined the fire the coach brigade and some even want a big trade; those people are either unable or unwilling to see that their expectations relative to the roster were far too high, so now they want to make panic moves as a result.

I suspect the Jets management however won’t make any panic moves but rather will continue to enact their plan. They are smart enough to realize and assess that the eventual return of a healthy Trouba will take some of the pressure off the balance of the D. He was already at the point where he was beginning to take some of Enstrom’s PP time away and was eating huge minutes back there every night. Hopefully he’ll be back soon as he will provide some massive D relief. Seriously, they were missing a top-4 D last night (Trouba, arguably near top-2 level now), and Kane, and some of you are panicked by the end result? Yikes.

My own analysis is that this remains a very flawed roster however and surely management sees that as well. They’ve a horrid D mix for example, and probably need to move someone like a Buff, but likely won’t do so until Trouba proves he can take over upon his return. That has probably been long in their plans anyway though. They’ve problems in goal and still also need to upgrade upfront as well. That myriad of problems in the player personnel department won’t be solved by making a panic move like firing the coach right now however. Those problems are structural in nature and require long-term change; in other words, a rash trade and firing the coach right now won’t prompt enough change to matter this season, unless your plan is to trade 40% of the roster that is. I suspect that if they make a move over the near-term it will be smaller in nature, perhaps bring in an Ott, or Hartnell, or a Chris Neil-type, so they have some more compete upfront. If they were to eventually trade a piece like a Buff or Kane, it won’t be done out of panic to save this season but rather will be done because it has perhaps already long been in their plans. These guys running the team are the antithesis of the fire the coach and make a rash trade brigade. Any substantive change will have already been long-planned out in other words. They’ll likely just sell off some bit parts at the deadline and will patiently evolve from within over time. More patience is clearly required here, much more in fact than some here have displayed.

Carry on as you were.

Fabulous post Gump.

 

[Gump Hasek]

Did you look at St. Louis' prospect system at the time of the 2010-2011 season as they began to alter what wasn't working?

Jaden Schwartz, Vladimir Teresenko, Ian Cole, were atop the prospect ranks.

Let's not overrate prospects and systems here, because generally speaking, they are indeed overrated.

The Jets aren't in an absolute prime position, but with 3 drafts under our belts, 2 first-round picks at the ages of 20 and 19 just making way, with Josh Morrissey in the pipeline, others starting their AHL careers and the rest fulfilling their junior commitments... we are not that far off 29 other NHL teams.

Then you carry on to the "core" of each team, the issues these "cores" and teams had, the head coaches, etc...

I won't force my opinions on you, but in my opinion the teams paths here are very comparable. Not exact, nothing is rarely an eye for an eye... but they are comparable, in my own opinion.

The two situations are not even close. St. Louis had the organizational depth behind them to make those sort of moves, depth that doesn't exist here as of yet. I won't force my opinions on you, but I'll suggest you are seeing something that really isn't there.