Speculation: Jets - General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation (Part XVII)

[pucka lucka]

There are some decent FA goalies coming up this year. Elliott, Halak, Hiller, Khubodin (again)

 

[bazaaa*]

But I throw this out for consideration. Should a Buff trade include a NHL ready goaltender? That may be the biggest need.

No. I think a solid goalie can be picked up in a number of ways, I don't waste a trade chip like Buff to acquire a goalie.
Free agency or another team's backup.
Although I liked it at the time, I don't think any goaltender should be locked up long term unless they are elite.

 

[Bob E]

No. I think a solid goalie can be picked up in a number of ways, I don't waste a trade chip like Buff to acquire a goalie.
Free agency or another team's backup.
Although I liked it at the time, I don't think any goaltender should be locked up long term unless they are elite.

If we want the Jets to be a playoff team, a consistently solid goalie is a must.

In FA, there is greater competition for signing those players. No guarantees they pick Winnipeg over other options.

Another teams backup may not give better goaltending than what we have with Pavs.

Not really sure Buff is really all that much in demand. His defensive play has been marginal, and other teams know this. If you can get a good young goalie with potential for Buff, I'd definitely consider it.

 

[bazaaa*]

If we want the Jets to be a playoff team, a consistently solid goalie is a must.

In FA, there is greater competition for signing those players. No guarantees they pick Winnipeg over other options.

Another teams backup may not give better goaltending than what we have with Pavs.

Not really sure Buff is really all that much in demand. His defensive play has been marginal, and other teams know this. If you can get a good young goalie with potential for Buff, I'd definitely consider it.

Have you looked at the goaltender market in free agency?

Have you looked at some of the top goaltenders in the league and where they were only a couple years ago?
I see no point in giving up assets for a goalie, where unless they are elite, you don't know what you're going to get in a year to year basis.

And yes, I know Buff isn't worth a ton, I've said it for months, even though some here think he'll bring back an elite return. But he's not worthless.

 

[JetsFan815]

And yes, I know Buff isn't worth a ton, I've said it for months, even though some here think he'll bring back an elite return. But he's not worthless.

 

[Bob E]

Have you looked at the goaltender market in free agency?

Have you looked at some of the top goaltenders in the league and where they were only a couple years ago?
I see no point in giving up assets for a goalie, where unless they are elite, you don't know what you're going to get in a year to year basis.

And yes, I know Buff isn't worth a ton, I've said it for months, even though some here think he'll bring back an elite return. But he's not worthless.

I am talking about acquiring a goalie that can become elite.

Who do you consider top goaltenders in the league? Most, if not all, have not changed teams or are homegrown.

What FA goalie do you think the Jets could sign?

 

[bazaaa*]

He's not worth a ton. Wake up and pretend for one minute you don't think every Jet is the best player in the league.

 

[bazaaa*]

I am talking about acquiring a goalie that can become elite.

Who do you consider top goaltenders in the league? Most, if not all, have not changed teams or are homegrown.

What FA goalie do you think the Jets could sign?

I don't know how you say Buff isn't in demand and wont' get a big return, but you want to trade him for a young goalie who can be elite.
There are too many free agent goaltenders on the market that atleast one would come here.

If Montoya plays good, he'll probably keep the job, if he's not, it wouldn't surprise me that Pavs gets the job again.

 

[bazaaa*]

Buff's the best! But let's trade him...

Crosby's the best! How many Penguin fans want him traded?

Jets fans are some of the most foolish fans in the league. Buff is one of the least consistent, laziest players in the league and doesn't show up half the time, but people here think he'll bring an elite return for some reason. If he was worth what people here pretend he was worth, they wouldn't want to trade him.

 

[JC Numminen]

Buff's the best! But let's trade him...

Crosby's the best! How many Penguin fans want him traded?

Jets fans are some of the most foolish fans in the league. Buff is one of the least consistent, laziest players in the league and doesn't show up half the time, but people here think he'll bring an elite return for some reason. If he was worth what people here pretend he was worth, they wouldn't want to trade him.

What Byfuglien could bring on a cup contending team would be huge. Teams with a great defensive Defence that needs some offense, a guy that can control a game, would fetch us a great return IMO.

 

[bazaaa*]

What Byfuglien could bring on a cup contending team would be huge. Teams with a great defensive Defence that needs some offense, a guy that can control a game, would fetch us a great return IMO.

Usually they get forwards for this and not a lazy defenseman.

 

[Bob E]

I don't know how you say Buff isn't in demand and wont' get a big return, but you want to trade him for a young goalie who can be elite.
There are too many free agent goaltenders on the market that atleast one would come here.

If Montoya plays good, he'll probably keep the job, if he's not, it wouldn't surprise me that Pavs gets the job again.

What I said is, should the Jets consider acquiring a young goalie in a potential Buff deal?

If you can get a young goalie already in the NHL or close, with the chance of being elite, from a team looking for someone like Buff to help their chances to win a cup (Anaheim, San Jose, Pitt, Boston, etc), shouldn't the Jets consider that and not just a C, winger or LH dman?

I just don't see getting a player like that via FA.

 

[bazaaa*]

What I said is, should the Jets consider acquiring a young goalie in a potential Buff deal?

If you can get a young goalie already in the NHL or close, with the chance of being elite, from a team looking for someone like Buff to help their chances to win a cup (Anaheim, San Jose, Pitt, Boston, etc), shouldn't the Jets consider that and not just a C, winger or LH dman?

I just don't see getting a player like that via FA.

I've been a Pavs supporter, but I'd just wait to see how the season ends up. If Montoya is significantly better over the rest of the season, why not extend him and just buy out Pavs.
Not at $5M per though.

 

[JC Numminen]

Usually they get forwards for this and not a lazy defenseman.

True, but on a contending team, you have a player like Buff who can quarterback a power play, play physical, score goals and make defensive plays is someone any team wants.

 

[jetkarma*]

Just got this tweet , Buff has a .887 save % behind him this year , add his Olympic candidacy to the jets playoff hopes on "things Pavelec wrecked"

 

[theamazingchris]

A "lazy" Byfuglien is still better than 90% of the D-men in this league, so pretending he's not gonna get a good return because of "laziness" is ludicrous.

 

[bazaaa*]

True, but on a contending team, you have a player like Buff who can quarterback a power play, play physical, score goals and make defensive plays is someone any team wants.

Fair enough. I still dont' see any contending teams giving up an elite haul for him though.

 

[Bob E]

I've been a Pavs supporter, but I'd just wait to see how the season ends up. If Montoya is significantly better over the rest of the season, why not extend him and just buy out Pavs.
Not at $5M per though.

Need more than one goalie.

Not sure if Montoya can maintain his current play over the long haul. His overall body of work is unproven. But I guess that would be what the balance of the season is for, to see if he can maintain it.

I'm really cooling off on Pavs, and see a solid goalie as a key need moving forward and into playoff contention in the years ahead. Monty may not be the answer, though he's helping right now. If a Buff trade could get that goalie, I'd be all over it.

I have much less confidence we can get that guy in FA, than you have. That's fine. Agree to disagree.

 

[JetsFan815]

He's not worth a ton. Wake up and pretend for one minute you don't think every Jet is the best player in the league.

The good old retort "come up with a ridiculous position that no one is taking and claim the person you are debating is taking that ridiculous position". No one here for a minute is claiming that. The fact remains that big puck moving defensive who guarantee 50-60 points a year don't grow on trees. When guys like Brent Burns got the return he got, there is no reason to think Buff won't get a similar return. And if Buff doesn't get equivalent to the Burns return or higher (above average roster player, good prospect, a contender's 1st round pick) then I'd rather keep Buff as he is one of the best player on the team.

 

[scelaton]

Just got this tweet , Buff has a .887 save % behind him this year , add his Olympic candidacy to the jets playoff hopes on "things Pavelec wrecked"

Yes, and yet this thread is getting contaminated by the repeated suggestions that there is some sort of equivalency between Bad Buff and Bad Pav.
The facts do not support this at all. Buffs numbers all attest to the fact that he is an upper tier offensive defenseman. Pavs has nothing of the sort.
The only numbers used as evidence against Buff by certain critics are those related to +/-, generally not regarded as anything but a proxy for poor overall team defense. It is interesting note, however, that Shea Weber and Erik Karlsson, 2 elite high-minute defensemen, who share Buff's low plus-minus, also have goalies whose save percentages are at the bottom of the league. That is how poor goaltending can "wreck" the numbers of defensemen who are on the ice a lot.

Jets fans are some of the most foolish fans in the league. Buff is one of the least consistent, laziest players in the league and doesn't show up half the time, but people here think he'll bring an elite return for some reason.

Actually, it's not only the Jets HF fans you have judged here, but the entire HF fan base. Repeated polls on the main board over the years have put Buff among the top-30 defensemen in the league, out of almost 300.
In the face of the evidenced-based opinions of the majority, could it be possible that your subjective opinion is--to put it as mildly as possible--overly harsh?

 

[JetsFan815]

Need more than one goalie.

Not sure if Montoya can maintain his current play over the long haul. His overall body of work is unproven. But I guess that would be what the balance of the season is for, to see if he can maintain it.

I'm really cooling off on Pavs, and see a solid goalie as a key need moving forward and into playoff contention in the years ahead. Monty may not be the answer, though he's helping right now. If a Buff trade could get that goalie, I'd be all over it.

I have much less confidence we can get that guy in FA, than you have. That's fine. Agree to disagree.

I don't agree with trading Buff for a goalie (unless ofcourse the goalie is a throw-in in the trade but I don't see any NHL ready goalies be treated as trade throwins). Buff should get a haul of forward talent. Goalies come out of nowhere, every year there's a new goalie that comes out of nowhere and puts up solid numbers, I'd rather look for such diamonds in the rough or in the worst case spend a 2nd round pick on a 1A/B goalie like Bishop or Bernier.

 

[meedle]

The good old retort "come up with a ridiculous position that no one is taking and claim the person you are debating is taking that ridiculous position". No one here for a minute is claiming that. The fact remains that big puck moving defensive who guarantee 50-60 points a year don't grow on trees. When guys like Brent Burns got the return he got, there is no reason to think Buff won't get a similar return. And if Buff doesn't get equivalent to the Burns return or higher (above average roster player, good prospect, a contender's 1st round pick) then I'd rather keep Buff as he is one of the best player on the team.

I agree Buff can get like a 3rd liner, decent prospect and a 1st probably. But the sooner he is gone the better imo.

As for the goalie situation for sure its going to be a buyers market. There is a huge list of FA goalies and not alot of teams looking for a goalie not to mention how many starting jobs are actually available. Hiller won't be back in Anaheim considering there is like 4 or is it 5 goalies who would be available in a 1a,1b situation, Don't think St.Louis keeps both Elliot and Halak as Jake Allen is probably ready. I'm sure if you talk to Khudobin, Scrivens, Greiss about being in a 1a/1b situation they would sign here just for the opportunity as they are just pure backups atm. I'm not sure Scrivens will be back in LA anyways with the play of Jones.

 

[bazaaa*]

The fact remains that big puck moving defensive who guarantee 50-60 points a year don't grow on trees. When guys like Brent Burns got the return he got, there is no reason to think Buff won't get a similar return. And if Buff doesn't get equivalent to the Burns return or higher (above average roster player, good prospect, a contender's 1st round pick) then I'd rather keep Buff as he is one of the best player on the team.

Put many skilled forwards on defense and you will have one. You will also see poor defense.

 

[JetsFan815]

Taylor Pyatt is on waivers from NYR. Would he be an upgrade over Thorburn on the 3rd line? Should the Jets put in a claim?

I would have put a claim on him if that caphit was more reasonable. Would be a definite upgrade over thorbs and make that line look almost like a passable NHL 3rd line

 

[JetsFan815]

Put many skilled forwards on defense and you will have one. You will also see poor defense.

In this day and age most forwards can't even put up 50-60 points playing in a forward position let alone defence