The trouble with that line of reasoning is that Burmi and Frolik are not tied together in any way. It is not either or. Never mind that Burmi is way short of Froliks value because he won't get half of 5 mil either. Not in the first year at any rate. Unless we sign a bunch of FAs we need both Burmi and Frolik.
I imagine the team has plans to bring back Stafford as he brings the size element and a bit more scoring than Frolik as well as open up a spot for Ehlers. Burmie back balances the possesion/defensive play out. Or at least that is how I see things playing out.
Again, players who are not tied together. If we want Stafford, we want Stafford. We still want Frolik. He is a better all around player than Stafford who brings very little additional scoring. There is room for Fro, Staff, Burmi and Ehlers.
"We are not going to throw away our future to try to win the Stanley Cup next year," he said. "I can assure you of that. Are we going to try and win the Stanley Cup? Yes, yes we are - along with the 29 other teams. But we are not going to trade top young players for 29-30-year-olds to try to take a one-year run at the Cup. That is not going to happen."
(Hextall)
Flyers are a bad fit. How do you build a contending roster with Grossmann, Lecavalier, Umberger, and MacDonald on your payroll?
I could not said it better well done.I should probably stop getting sucked in to these circular discussions, but I'll try once more, and that is it...for now .
There was something to lose by playing it out, something small but significant.
Let's assume Chevy is a smart man, who knew, as arbitration approached, that there was 0 chance he would meet Frolik's salary demands last year. Frolik knew he'd lose nothing by asking for the moon and waiting for UFA if he did not get it. If that was the case, and I believe it was, then the "third period" was not last year, but is just coming up now. Chevy realized that, and also knew his best chance to nab Fro was to behave like a mensch in the interim and hope that Frolik chose to stay with a great organization, all other things being equal. Arbitration is a negative, potentially divisive force in that scenario.
The number of false analogies used to critique Chevy's approach is amazing.He is not a desperate car salesman looking for a sale at any price. What he is selling comes at a relatively fixed price, backed up by a great organization and team. That has value to many players...maybe not to Frolik...but it the right strategy and only viable strategy available in this situation.
When the dust clears, and we do sign our UFAs, pay attention to what they say. I suspect it won't be that, "Chevy drives a hard bargain and I blinked because I wanted to play here so badly..." It'll be more like, "Maybe I could have made a bit more money elsewhere, but this organization is so classy and player-friendly, and the team so tight that I chose to stay here..."
The ones that just want the most money won't come/stay here. Frolik's decision will speak louder than words and will reflect his values, rather than Chevy's competence as a negotiator.
Stay tuned.
I should probably stop getting sucked in to these circular discussions, but I'll try once more, and that is it...for now .
There was something to lose by playing it out, something small but significant.
Let's assume Chevy is a smart man, who knew, as arbitration approached, that there was 0 chance he would meet Frolik's salary demands last year. Frolik knew he'd lose nothing by asking for the moon and waiting for UFA if he did not get it. If that was the case, and I believe it was, then the "third period" was not last year, but is just coming up now. Chevy realized that, and also knew his best chance to nab Fro was to behave like a mensch in the interim and hope that Frolik chose to stay with a great organization, all other things being equal. Arbitration is a negative, potentially divisive force in that scenario.
The number of false analogies used to critique Chevy's approach is amazing.He is not a desperate car salesman looking for a sale at any price. What he is selling comes at a relatively fixed price, backed up by a great organization and team. That has value to many players...maybe not to Frolik...but it the right strategy and only viable strategy available in this situation.
When the dust clears, and we do sign our UFAs, pay attention to what they say. I suspect it won't be that, "Chevy drives a hard bargain and I blinked because I wanted to play here so badly..." It'll be more like, "Maybe I could have made a bit more money elsewhere, but this organization is so classy and player-friendly, and the team so tight that I chose to stay here..."
The ones that just want the most money won't come/stay here. Frolik's decision will speak louder than words and will reflect his values, rather than Chevy's competence as a negotiator.
Stay tuned.
I should probably stop getting sucked in to these circular discussions, but I'll try once more, and that is it...for now .
There was something to lose by playing it out, something small but significant.
Let's assume Chevy is a smart man, who knew, as arbitration approached, that there was 0 chance he would meet Frolik's salary demands last year. Frolik knew he'd lose nothing by asking for the moon and waiting for UFA if he did not get it. If that was the case, and I believe it was, then the "third period" was not last year, but is just coming up now. Chevy realized that, and also knew his best chance to nab Fro was to behave like a mensch in the interim and hope that Frolik chose to stay with a great organization, all other things being equal. Arbitration is a negative, potentially divisive force in that scenario.
The number of false analogies used to critique Chevy's approach is amazing.He is not a desperate car salesman looking for a sale at any price. What he is selling comes at a relatively fixed price, backed up by a great organization and team. That has value to many players...maybe not to Frolik...but it the right strategy and only viable strategy available in this situation.
When the dust clears, and we do sign our UFAs, pay attention to what they say. I suspect it won't be that, "Chevy drives a hard bargain and I blinked because I wanted to play here so badly..." It'll be more like, "Maybe I could have made a bit more money elsewhere, but this organization is so classy and player-friendly, and the team so tight that I chose to stay here..."
The ones that just want the most money won't come/stay here. Frolik's decision will speak louder than words and will reflect his values, rather than Chevy's competence as a negotiator.
Stay tuned.
Like I said elsewhere, Chevy did not have to go through with arbitration if he did not want that negativity. But, at the very least he could have waited it out till the last minute. That 'nice guy' argument doesn't explain quitting so early. Would it have made any difference at all? Like I've also said before, probably not. Probably is not certainly. There was nothing to lose by waiting to the last minute.
I'm in agreement with you Mort, but also agree this debate has run in circles and people see it different ways which is all fine. I'll just add you don't necessarily need to rip the player a new one in an arbitration hearing. But rather merely point out what comparable players are getting paid. IMO Chevy is capable of walking that line. There was a relatively narrow gap within which the arbitrator was likely to rule anyways. And Chevy was the one who elected to go to arbitration in the 1st place.
I think what we are starting to see and will see more of moving forward is a distinct salary grid. Star players will make a lot and this will squeeze other players. What we have seen with teams that are getting into cap trouble is the overpaying of complimentary players. While Frolik is a good hockey player, he is still just a mid high 30's low 40 point complimentary player on a contending team. These are precisely the players you avoid opening a wallet for IMO. Of Walsh is asking for 5 million I'm fine with walking as a player line Burmie might bring most of what Frolik does for half the price.
Burmi $1M 1yr show me contract. He's a lot cheaper than half of what frolik will cost.
No way Burmi's signs with the Jets for 1mil.
I disagree on a couple of levels:
1) I don't think teams get into cap trouble by overpaying complementary players so much as they get into trouble by giving money and term to aging players that are overvalued, usually for possessing overrated traits (eg. shot blocking, stay at home ability, "truculence") or for recent production that is largely unsustainable.
2) I have little or no expectation that Burmi will return to Winnipeg. If in fact he does return, I have even less expectation that he'll be an adequate replacement for Frolik. He can certainly do some of the things that Frolik does well, but I don't see him as a viable plan B.
It's not to say that overpaying someone like Frolik won't cause cap trouble down the road, but it's mitigated by the fact that you'll get at least half of the span of his contract during prime years. Also by the fact that his defensive abilities are extremely valuable, and getting a player of similar ability will inevitably require an overpayment.
In the end, it probably comes down to my personal view that a forward like Frolik will be absolutely integral if this team is looking to contend 2 or 3 years down the road. Don't expect everyone to agree with that.
I doubt anyone pays him much more than that. After 1 more season he will have arbitration rights and will get paid appropriately if he deserves it. IMO if he wants back in the NHL , that's his only way back.
Even if I knew in the future that Frolik wasn't in the plans, and/or knew that enough of our prospects would "make it" to the point that Frolik could be replaced, I would think it would still be my strategy to sign Frolik to the type of deal that when that day came, there was still some term on Frolik's contract.
That way I could move Frolik for possibly some picks to keep the pipeline stocked.
That would certainly be ideal. Think the Jets are moving close to that point. But they might be a year or two away.
I'm going to ask this here as I'm not sure where else to ask this. But Cody Franson is set to become a free agent this summer. I haven't watched him much but based on what I've read he is an offensive dman that takes chances, can be physical and is somewhat inconsistant, though has a good shot and can be a catalyst on the PP. Depending on what he commands as far as price and term, could he be a poor mans Buff? If we could sign him for the right price on a short term deal, until JoMo is ready to step into a top 4 role permanently, could he be a viable option to replace buff with? Then we can trade buff straight across for either a LHD or another forward, or futures.
Whereabouts?
Ladd - Little - Wheeler
Perrault - Scheifele - Ehlers/Stafford
Burmie - Lowry - Ehlers/Stafford
I doubt Burmie comes back to play on the 4th line.
Like I said elsewhere, Chevy did not have to go through with arbitration if he did not want that negativity. But, at the very least he could have waited it out till the last minute. That 'nice guy' argument doesn't explain quitting so early. Would it have made any difference at all? Like I've also said before, probably not. Probably is not certainly. There was nothing to lose by waiting to the last minute.