Jets - General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation 14-15 Part V

[Mortimer Snerd]

Going after an overrated guy like Marc Staal for 5+ years at $5M+ instead of waiting for Morrissey to grow into the role is the kind of move that prevents you from holding a great team together when you finally have one.

When Morrissey is a good enough NHL player to bump Stuart down a line, that's what will happen.

No use wasting salary and cap space on a name brand when PC or Kirkland will do just fine.

Ehlers will be that middle six winger we are missing.

Burmistrov is an option if, for whatever reason, Frolik decided to bolt.

Petan is a bit more of a wild card but there's a good chance he could work his way onto the club.

Staal would be great to have but I expect the bidding will exceed his value.

Morrissey should bump Stu pretty soon. Then we will need the guy to bump him down another notch. With the punishment Stu's body gets I don't expect him to have a particularly long career.

As you say there are others in the pipeline to improve our Fs.

 

[Hunter368]

8-4-3 in a very tough November sounds like winning some games to me. I too disagree with your characterization of the team. I enjoy watching them play this year way more. We play hard.

Look at our overall record vs last year and not cherry pick please. We're basically the same team and record albeit were playing differently to get those points. I agree I like how we're playing this year vs the first three years, but the results in the standings are basically no different. I love Paul as a coach (although I'm starting to smell/hear some b/s after some loses), love the grit and determination were showing, but results are results".....no different. Our failing is a lack of talent in all areas.

Pavs (goaltending) - Do any of us believe he can sustain this pace? No

Forwards - Scoring is weak

4th - Line is brutal

defence - Huge void in the top 4 LHD

Until these issues are resolved were not a good team, we're not going to significantly improve our results (points), we're not going to be a serious playoff team. This isn't going to be fixed until at least two years from now, once our prospects develop. Until then be prepared to watch subpar bubble team.

 

[KingBogo]

I'll put this out there for discussion. We have Hutchinson looking solid in Winnipeg, Helleybuck is performing very well in St. John's. Next year we have Eric Comrie becoming a pro. As much as fans are clamouring for Hutchinson and Helleybuck to be the starting tandem next year, that seems highly improbable. It would be quite an inexperienced tandem, and given the Jets development record, you would think they want Helleybuck to play regularly, as he is on the farm, whereas, in Winnipeg, unless he was in a direct platoon, that may not present itself as an opportunity. Further complicating the matter is the fact that having Pavelec in our organization is significant if we are attempting to re-sign Michael Frolik. So the question I have then is if we go with the status quo goaltending here next year, and we want to continue Helleybuck in his development, do we consider using Eric Comrie as a trade asset, as we also have Jamie Phillips who make take over in St. John's once Helleybuck is promoted? Or should we keep the stable full? And somehow find a way to make it work (maybe loaning a goalie to another affiliate)? Do you think we could land Jordan Eberle per chance, for Comrie?

Short answer...No. You can't get a young top 6 forward with a ton of term left on his contract, for a goalie prospect, especially one still in junior. Not saying Comrie could't be a sweetener in another player for player deal. It is doubtful the Jets would be willing to move Comrie at this point, though that may change in a year or 2 if Hutch and Helly keep up their development trajectories.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I never said this team couldn't make the playoffs (although I doubt it) I said were not a serious threat. I said were a bubble team nothing more as it stands. We will sqeak in or just miss out on the playoffs. If we sqeak in we'll lose first round, no real chance. This is all being said if we do nothing again this year. As we close in on the TD we need to decide are we going for it or not, if we want to go for it we need to do something not sit on our hands.

My issue is were pretty far from being a serious threat we need too much. We need another top 6/9 forward, top 4 LHD and a MUCH better 4th line. I still have serious questions about our goaltending, still not convinced Pavs suddenly is a real goalie, too small sample on Hutch to claim he's of saviour even if Paul played him more.

Some think I'm being too negative, how so? What have I said above that's so negative? We all know these facts. Are we suddenly going to open the vault spend all this extra money and trade away futures to get what we need? That would be a big change in TN's operating.

Negative? Yes, a bit. You have accurately identified the problems but I think you are overstating them a bit. The solutions to at least some of the problem areas are on the horizon. I think it is clear now that the Jets are better this year than last. It is still uncertain how much better. We can see that they will be better again next year. You are unhappy with the pace of improvement so you are seeing it as no improvement at all and that is simply incorrect. I think in this case the glass really is half full.

 

[Duke749]

Staal would be great to have but I expect the bidding will exceed his value.

Morrissey should bump Stu pretty soon. Then we will need the guy to bump him down another notch. With the punishment Stu's body gets I don't expect him to have a particularly long career.

As you say there are others in the pipeline to improve our Fs.

If we were further along, going shorter term with higher $$$ for a guy like Staal wouldn't be a bad idea. But we're obviously not there so it would be pointless honestly.

 

[Ducky10]

I don't disagree that within two years (that was my whole arguement in July/August) we should look much better as prospects break into the team. But this means Ladd and Buff need to be dealt with between now and then. I think we trade Buff this TD for a young NHL roster player (potential top 6 forward), attempt to resign (once we can legally discuss contract) Ladd (as long as reasonable demands).

My POV is trading Buff this TD to get a higher return is better than what he'll add to the team if we keep him for a playoff spot/series. Next year I see Pétan and JoMorr (Ehlers no) maybe making the team, not sure about any of the 4th line type prospects. But none of this helps us this year, we're going no where this year aka bubble team (fail by a hair or kicked quickly in first round). I can't see either Chevy or Chipman giving away the futures/big cash to get what we need to be a serious threat this year. So as I said this year is a meh year, go through the motions, see what you can achieve with what you got without any big additions from Chevy (just like years 1-3). So this is why I'm bummed about this year, it's a nothing year. Next year might be a bit better depending how things go and two years should be much more interesting. This will be 6 years before were competitive serious team.....that's a long time to be patient.

I agree with most of what you've said here, I don't quite agree with your time frame of 6 years though, that's a little extreme. If Buff and Ladd get moved for NHL ready players, combined with existing core players, combined with emerging core players and the youth arriving, I can envision 3-4 years. That depends obviously on expected development, which doesn't always go to plan.

With what you've stated I don't get the criticism of Chevy not going all on at the TD, for who? With what? The guy is suddenly going to augment this team so dramatically by the TD so as to shorten their competitive time frame? They aren't ready and the only real value they carry for other teams is youth. There's a team based in Toronto that has done real well with that approach.

 

[KingBogo]

Anybody that has watched this team since 2010 or soon after can tell this is easily the best they've been since. We have better depth, better defensive play, better goaltending. There's no reason to think we can't make the playoffs. And yeah we might not go anywhere if/when we get there, but I know we'll put up a heck of a fight.

But yes it would be nice and a good idea to add a piece or two by the TD. We need the depth now. Can't imagine how bad we'll need it in several months. One major injury to a key player and we're in trouble.

I couldn't agree more Big Tuna. In my eyes team has got to the tipping point, we can either add a couple pieces and keep pushing forward or we can hope we magically draft all the right pieces watch them grow and have a butterfly appear.

As of today the core of the lineup is made up of:

Ladd 4th overall pick in his prime.
Wheeler 5th overall pick in his prime.
Little 12th overall pick in his prime.
Kane 4th overall pick on the edge of entering into his prime.
Scheifele 7th overall pick still on ELC and developing into a really nice player.
Frolik 10th overall pick in his prime.
Bogosian 3rd overall on the edge of his prime.
Trouba 9th overall still on ELC, but future Norris potential.

You also have a handful of home run later picks in Enstrom, Buff and Perrault all in their prime.

Great goalie prospects, one of which is leading the league in save %.

Three blue chip prospects in Ehlers, Morrissey and Petan waiting in the wings.

I don't get way people think if we start throwing away these pieces they will be magically replaced by players we will pick from the mid range in future drafts.

IMO it took awhile for this team to grow into a team capable of competing for a playoff spot and maybe all it took was a better coach. But why wouldn't we prefer to build on what we already have and start filling the gaps we do have. 2nd pairing LHD, 2 depth forwards to balance out the roster and allow us to run 4 lines. We do have $11 M in cap space and are well positioned to take on valuable players that the very top teams might want/need to move to prepare for their own cup runs.

 

[Hunter368]

Negative? Yes, a bit. You have accurately identified the problems but I think you are overstating them a bit. The solutions to at least some of the problem areas are on the horizon. I think it is clear now that the Jets are better this year than last. It is still uncertain how much better. We can see that they will be better again next year. You are unhappy with the pace of improvement so you are seeing it as no improvement at all and that is simply incorrect. I think in this case the glass really is half full.

Read my posts after this one, I explain my POV more. Our foundation how we play is better, but the results aren't. Until they start improving their results were splitting atoms here.

I agree with most of what you've said here, I don't quite agree with your time frame of 6 years though, that's a little extreme. If Buff and Ladd get moved for NHL ready players, combined with existing core players, combined with emerging core players and the youth arriving, I can envision 3-4 years. That depends obviously on expected development, which doesn't always go to plan.

With what you've stated I don't get the criticism of Chevy not going all on at the TD, for who? With what? The guy is suddenly going to augment this team so dramatically by the TD so as to shorten their competitive time frame? They aren't ready and the only real value they carry for other teams is youth. There's a team based in Toronto that has done real well with that approach.

Your changing my comments in your first paragraph. I said without change it will be 6 years, I'm all for change, my concern as stated is we don't change. Change away, I'm all for change.

Your last paragragh is agreeing with me, in a way. I'm saying based on this teams MO,/history, this GM and this ownership were not going to make any big changes. We'll sit on our hands and do nothing major. I'm not saying go out trade away all our team, but trade Buff at the TD when his value is high. I'm saying this team isn't anything but a bubble team, so get used to roughly 500 record. In two more years we will be much better, but not this year.

 

[Ducky10]

Look at our overall record vs last year and not cherry pick please. We're basically the same team and record albeit were playing differently to get those points. I agree I like how we're playing this year vs the first three years, but the results in the standings are basically no different. I love Paul as a coach (although I'm starting to smell/hear some b/s after some loses), love the grit and determination were showing, but results are results".....no different. Our failing is a lack of talent in all areas.

Pavs (goaltending) - Do any of us believe he can sustain this pace? No

Forwards - Scoring is weak

4th - Line is brutal

defence - Huge void in the top 4 LHD

Until these issues are resolved were not a good team, we're not going to significantly improve our results (points), we're not going to be a serious playoff team. This isn't going to be fixed until at least two years from now, once our prospects develop. Until then be prepared to watch subpar bubble team.

In a vacuum the results are very similar, but that doesn't take into account the schedule, the Jets have arguably had one of the toughest first quarter schedules in the league, and they have the opportunity now to make some hay.

Lacks talent in all areas? What do mean? You mean a hole or two un each area?

4th line, no argument there.

This is pretty much the same team that finished 15 in scoring last year, minus Jokkinen and plus Perreault and Lowry. It's been disappointing but is due for some regression.

 

[Ducky10]

Read my posts after this one, I explain my POV more. Our foundation how we play is better, but the results aren't. Until they start improving their results were splitting atoms here.



Your changing my comments in your first paragraph. I said without change it will be 6 years, I'm all for change, my concern as stated is we don't change. Change away, I'm all for change.

Your last paragragh is agreeing with me, in a way. I'm saying based on this teams MO,/history, this GM and this ownership were not going to make any big changes. We'll sit on our hands and do nothing major. I'm not saying go out trade away all our team, but trade Buff at the TD when his value is high. I'm saying this team isn't anything but a bubble team, so get used to roughly 500 record. In two more years we will be much better, but not this year.

I agree with trading Buff while his value is high, but a move like that doesn't get this team off the bubble, at least right away.

 

[Hunter368]

I couldn't agree more Big Tuna. In my eyes team has got to the tipping point, we can either add a couple pieces and keep pushing forward or we can hope we magically draft all the right pieces watch them grow and have a butterfly appear.

As of today the core of the lineup is made up of:

Ladd 4th overall pick in his prime.
Wheeler 5th overall pick in his prime.
Little 12th overall pick in his prime.
Kane 4th overall pick on the edge of entering into his prime.
Scheifele 7th overall pick still on ELC and developing into a really nice player.
Frolik 10th overall pick in his prime.
Bogosian 3rd overall on the edge of his prime.
Trouba 9th overall still on ELC, but future Norris potential.

You also have a handful of home run later picks in Enstrom, Buff and Perrault all in their prime.

Great goalie prospects, one of which is leading the league in save %.

Three blue chip prospects in Ehlers, Morrissey and Petan waiting in the wings.

I don't get way people think if we start throwing away these pieces they will be magically replaced by players we will pick from the mid range in future drafts.

IMO it took awhile for this team to grow into a team capable of competing for a playoff spot and maybe all it took was a better coach. But why wouldn't we prefer to build on what we already have and start filling the gaps we do have. 2nd pairing LHD, 2 depth forwards to balance out the roster and allow us to run 4 lines. We do have $11 M in cap space and are well positioned to take on valuable players that the very top teams might want/need to move to prepare for their own cup runs.

Who is suggesting throwing away these pieces? Trading one soon to be UFA in Buff isn't throwing away these pieces. Asset management. Unless you see Buff fitting into our long term plans, I haven't seen many fans post that, than why keep him past this TD? His value will drop significantly if we keep him and trade him next year. Trade him at this TD get a young NHL roster forward with top 6 potential (plus maybe a late 1st or high 2nd pick). The difference between Buff and that young roster player isn't huge, we get young, better potential, lose cap and a pick. This will not have much a negative impact on our playoff push or standings this year but potentially a big plus in the future.

We could add more as you say, but I wouldn't be in favour of it if it's costing futures. We need to add too much to be a serious threat this year, so if it meant giving up futures for rentals then I wouldn't be happy. If your suggesting giving up futures for a good young player with term than you have me interested. Still that pesky internal cap/owner to resolve. I would love to improve our team, ifs it's via rentals at cost of futures....my opinion is no. If it's getting young NHL players with term for futures....my opinion in maybe depending on the cost & return.

I think we're closer in agreeing than you think.

 

[Hunter368]

In a vacuum the results are very similar, but that doesn't take into account the schedule, the Jets have arguably had one of the toughest first quarter schedules in the league, and they have the opportunity now to make some hay.

Lacks talent in all areas? What do mean? You mean a hole or two un each area?

4th line, no argument there.

This is pretty much the same team that finished 15 in scoring last year, minus Jokkinen and plus Perreault and Lowry. It's been disappointing but is due for some regression.

We lack talent in all areas I listed. I listed the holes that need help.

I agree with trading Buff while his value is high, but a move like that doesn't get this team off the bubble, at least right away.

I agree and have stated such multi times, we're a bubble team baring any significant changes. But trading Buff helps our future, so it should be done with the big picture in mind. IMO

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

If we were further along, going shorter term with higher $$$ for a guy like Staal wouldn't be a bad idea. But we're obviously not there so it would be pointless honestly.

I'm not so sure. The 4th line needs work but it may be as simple as accepting that the helmetpunchers are obsolete and playing the best hockey players we have available. If (still early, big if) we assume that our goaltending is fixed going into next season and we make that addition to our D I think we are a pretty solid team.

Enstrom - Bogo
Staal - Trouba
Morrissey - Postma

That's a good D corps

Hutchinson with the league's most expensive backup, Pavelec.

Still some question marks among the forwards. Does Frolik re-sign? Does Burmi return? Does Petan make the team? What do we do with Buff? But those will be resolved before next season starts. With that D and the group of forwards we have to work with PMo could build a contender as long as the goaltending stands up.

 

[Jet]

Since this thread is heinously over the 1000 post limit, time to shut 'er down.

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