Jets - General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation 14-15 Part III

[voyageur]

I can forgive the Jets management which was borne in the AHL for making some mistakes at the NHL level...Setoguchi is one. Should not have been acquired, but the team needed depth, everyone agrees. Should have been traded at the deadline. Frolik was a good acquisition however.

I think that everyone would say that the franchise is in better hands under Chevy than it was under Don Waddell, and he has drafted more impact players to date (except for Kovalchuk). The team suffered after constant revolving coaches, and styles. Noel had 2 + years to help the team mature, Maurice will get his first full season to imprint a style that meets the standard. So Chevy is not Glen Sather...I think bringing the core of this team together over the past 3 seasons will pay diviidends.

If Ondrej Pavelec is the weak link again come training camp, and Hutchinson doesn't impress, do we make a play on Dustin Tokarski? Or Jhonas Enroth, if Buffalo contends for the Connor Mc David sweepstakes, though I think they will surprise with Ted Nolan coaching them. I don't expect any of the goalies we have drafted, in spite of their promise, to be ready until 2015, probably 2016. Pavelec for Cam Ward makes the most sense,in terms of fitting into the team, but are we ready to increase our cap hit by over 2 million for a goalie who may not be a huge improvement at this stage of his career? I think with the centres we have and kids like Adam Lowry and Andrew Copp on the horizon, Alexander Burmistrov may be bait for an upgrade at another position.

 

[CaptainChef]

My big problem with the Seto move though wasn't the move itself. It was it's complete inconsistency. We are a build through the draft build through the draft, nope let's toss away picks and go for it now. No now we are build through draft, that was nothing just ignore it now. No plan, Chevy is all over the place.

Its a huge puzzle - agree entirely. How can we declare ourselves a draft and develop team when over the course of the last three years we have traded away as many draft picks as we have acquired! Thats in spite of acquiring two draft picks for Poni and two for Oduya. He's all over the place but so many want to focus only on a few positive moves he has made and his supposedly above-average drafting record (for first rounders anyway)

 

[surixon]

Its a huge puzzle - agree entirely. How can we declare ourselves a draft and develop team when over the course of the last three years we have traded away as many draft picks as we have acquired! Thats in spite of acquiring two draft picks for Poni and two for Oduya. He's all over the place but so many want to focus only on a few positive moves he has made and his supposedly above-average drafting record (for first rounders anyway)

I thought people didn't just want to be a draft and develop team. Chevy took a gamble on a mid 20's player that would have been looked at to plug a hole on this roster. Had it worked he would have fit in age wise and really increased our depth. Hindsight tells us it was a bad move, but it was an attempt to address a roster hole. It seems like Chevy can't win with some of you, he's either dithering and doing nothing to address holes on the roster or because he isnt going all in on draft and develop he has no plan.

 

[CHaracter79]

Out of curiosity Trade

Hello Jets Fans. We had a little thread on the main board and I gave a proposal that some disagreed with while others liked. Tell me what you think

The offer was...

To Mtl: E. Kane and D. Byfuglien

To Winn : Brendan Gallagher, David Desharnais, Magnus Nygren, 1st round pick 2015 and 1st round pick 2106

 

[Whileee]

Hello Jets Fans. We had a little thread on the main board and I gave a proposal that some disagreed with while others liked. Tell me what you think

The offer was...

To Mtl: E. Kane and D. Byfuglien

To Winn : Brendan Gallagher, David Desharnais, Magnus Nygren, 1st round pick 2015 and 1st round pick 2106

I really have no interest in Desharnais or Nygren. Desharnais would be a 3rd line center at best (behind Little and Scheifele), and we just signed Perreault who I expect will produce well in that slot. The Jets are fairly strong with RHD, so I can't see them having an interest in Nygren. I could see something around Gallagher and a 1st rounder for Kane or Buff, though I think Kane's value might well increase this season as he gets the opportunity to play with more productive and compatible linemates.

 

[CHaracter79]

I really have no interest in Desharnais or Nygren. Desharnais would be a 3rd line center at best (behind Little and Scheifele), and we just signed Perreault who I expect will produce well in that slot. The Jets are fairly strong with RHD, so I can't see them having an interest in Nygren. I could see something around Gallagher and a 1st rounder for Kane or Buff, though I think Kane's value might well increase this season as he gets the opportunity to play with more productive and compatible linemates.

Two sides to that coin too. What if Gallagher pots 30 this year. I mean his and Kane's stats the last two years are pretty equal. i think maybe 8 points between them. ( not comparing them one on one, just saying)

You are also getting a 2nd 1st round pick in there as well.

Im not aware of how deep the RD is in the system. If its LD you're looking for we could maybe throw in Tinordi instead of nygren.

DD is more for cap reasons. You'd be under the floor. and wed need space for both of them.

Im not sure perreault can get 50 - 60 points consistently the way DD has the past 4 seasons. Still, its nice to hear some feedback

 

[Huffer]

Hello Jets Fans. We had a little thread on the main board and I gave a proposal that some disagreed with while others liked. Tell me what you think

The offer was...

To Mtl: E. Kane and D. Byfuglien

To Winn : Brendan Gallagher, David Desharnais, Magnus Nygren, 1st round pick 2015 and 1st round pick 2106

The Habs fan who was responding to you was correct. That's not a good deal for the Jets.

Gallagher is a good player, and I'd like him on the Jets, but ask yourself what you would want for Patches. That's what we want for Kane. And your 2015 1st is likely to be in the 20's.

DD and Nygren have very little value to the Jets. DD not only doesn't have a spot with Little, Scheifele, and Perreault, it's very likely he doesn't fit in as a centre in the west anyway. Nygren is 24, bolted from Hamilton back to Europe, and is a primary offensive, right handed D man. Not a big need, and without a spot for him on the NHL roster, why would he come back? No real value to the Jets in either of those two guys.

If the Habs want Kane, Galchenyuk needs to be on the table. If not, and this is another, "I want your good players, but none of my top players are available", you'd need to overpay to make it worth the teams while.

Gallagher, JDLR, + 2016 1st for Kane
2015 1st + Scherbak for Buff

So basically take your proposal, and replace DD and Nygren with Scherbak and JDLR and it might get closer. That should be easy as I've read on that thread DD is a 50 point centre, and Nygren is the best defenseman in Europe.

Don't know about how much support you'll get as most people are pretty excited to see how Kane plays this year after coming in healthy, and given some line-mates.

Im not sure perreault can get 50 - 60 points consistently the way DD has the past 4 seasons. Still, its nice to hear some feedback

Which seasons did DD crack 50-60? I see twice, even pro-rated. 11-12, and 13-14.

 

[CHaracter79]

do you really think that Buff is worth 2 first round picks?

Im sure there are other D men in the league that the habs could get for two first round picks.

Pacioretty is a 40 goal scorer. Kane is a 30 goal scorer. As of right now, his stats are more comparable to Gallagher then Max.

The ceiling is much higher for sure... but how many 40 goal scorers are there in the league. max missed 10 games as well. pro rated we are looking at 44-45 goals...

thats what everybody seems to be doing here.. pro rating.

I think to ask for 4 first round picks and gallagher, for kane and buff, which is essentially what youre doing.. is a bit much.

Ehlers, trouba, scheiffle and a 1st for Pacioretty.

sign me up

 

[CHaracter79]

The Habs fan who was responding to you was correct. That's not a good deal for the Jets.

Gallagher is a good player, and I'd like him on the Jets, but ask yourself what you would want for Patches. That's what we want for Kane. And your 2015 1st is likely to be in the 20's.

DD and Nygren have very little value to the Jets. DD not only doesn't have a spot with Little, Scheifele, and Perreault, it's very likely he doesn't fit in as a centre in the west anyway. Nygren is 24, bolted from Hamilton back to Europe, and is a primary offensive, right handed D man. Not a big need, and without a spot for him on the NHL roster, why would he come back? No real value to the Jets in either of those two guys.

If the Habs want Kane, Galchenyuk needs to be on the table. If not, and this is another, "I want your good players, but none of my top players are available", you'd need to overpay to make it worth the teams while.

Gallagher, JDLR, + 2016 1st for Kane
2015 1st + Scherbak for Buff

So basically take your proposal, and replace DD and Nygren with Scherbak and JDLR and it might get closer. That should be easy as I've read on that thread DD is a 50 point centre, and Nygren is the best defenseman in Europe.

Don't know about how much support you'll get as most people are pretty excited to see how Kane plays this year after coming in healthy, and given some line-mates.



Which seasons did DD crack 50-60? I see twice, even pro-rated. 11-12, and 13-14.

sorry two years.. another 47 and the other 43... youre right..

I meant averaged over the past four seasons... my bad playa

 

[Whileee]

Two sides to that coin too. What if Gallagher pots 30 this year. I mean his and Kane's stats the last two years are pretty equal. i think maybe 8 points between them. ( not comparing them one on one, just saying)

You are also getting a 2nd 1st round pick in there as well.

Im not aware of how deep the RD is in the system. If its LD you're looking for we could maybe throw in Tinordi instead of nygren.

DD is more for cap reasons. You'd be under the floor. and wed need space for both of them.

Im not sure perreault can get 50 - 60 points consistently the way DD has the past 4 seasons. Still, its nice to hear some feedback

I doubt Desharnais pots 50-60 points on a third line, which is where he'd play for the Jets in the next few years. Perreault's shown he can produce well on the 3rd line, and is a strong option there. So Desharnais doesn't add much. Positionally and in terms of age, I'd prefer Tinordi to Nygren, but I haven't seen enough of either to assess how attractive they would be.

 

[CHaracter79]

Playing on the third line might be even better for DD.. hes getting those points playing against the top lines of opposition. I never thought of it that way before

 

[Huffer]

do you really think that Buff is worth 2 first round picks?

Im sure there are other D men in the league that the habs could get for two first round picks.

Pacioretty is a 40 goal scorer. Kane is a 30 goal scorer. As of right now, his stats are more comparable to Gallagher then Max.

The ceiling is much higher for sure... but how many 40 goal scorers are there in the league. max missed 10 games as well. pro rated we are looking at 44-45 goals...

thats what everybody seems to be doing here.. pro rating.

I think to ask for 4 first round picks and gallagher, for kane and buff, which is essentially what youre doing.. is a bit much.

Ehlers, trouba, scheiffle and a 1st for Pacioretty.

sign me up

Lol. Habs fans love to point to Patches last season as the only barometer between Max and Kane. Why not the season before when Kane outscored him? It's pretty hilarious also that Habs fans always seem to want to ignore that Kane has outscored Max at every similar age.

I basically took your own proposal and substituted DD and Nygren for JDLR and Scherbak and now you don't like it. I thought DD was a consistent 50-60 point centre and Nygren was the best defenseman in Europe? How about throw Galchenyuk on the table?

 

[CHaracter79]

Lol. Habs fans love to point to Patches last season as the only barometer between Max and Kane. Why not the season before when Kane outscored him? It's pretty hilarious also that Habs fans always seem to want to ignore that Kane has outscored Max at every similar age.

I basically took your own proposal and substituted DD and Nygren for JDLR and Scherbak and now you're pouty. I thought DD was a consistent 50-60 point centre and Nygren was the best defenseman in Europe?

at 23 years old Kane scored 19 in 63 and max scored 33

Arent you guys doing the same thing with Kane? taking his one 30 goals season and trademarking him?

the facts are that Pacioretty did score 40 goals. has pro rated 30 every year except one..

Kane hasnt at all.

 

[Huffer]

at 23 years old Kane scored 19 in 63 and max scored 33

Arent you guys doing the same thing with Kane? taking his one 30 goals season and trademarking him?

the facts are that Pacioretty did score 40 goals. has pro rated 30 every year except one..

Kane hasnt at all.

This season is Kane's 23 year old season. Try again.

 

[CHaracter79]

Lol. Habs fans love to point to Patches last season as the only barometer between Max and Kane. Why not the season before when Kane outscored him? It's pretty hilarious also that Habs fans always seem to want to ignore that Kane has outscored Max at every similar age.

I basically took your own proposal and substituted DD and Nygren for JDLR and Scherbak and now you don't like it. I thought DD was a consistent 50-60 point centre and Nygren was the best defenseman in Europe? How about throw Galchenyuk on the table?

All im saying is you are asking for 4 first rounders + gallagher for Kane and Buff.

I think thats pretty steep.

 

[CHaracter79]

This season is Kane's 23 year old season. Try again.

Max started that season at 22...

 

[Aavco Cup]

DD would be best served staying in the eastern conference. The Jets already have 2 smallish centers and don't need a third.

 

[Huffer]

All im saying is you are asking for 4 first rounders + gallagher for Kane and Buff.

I think thats pretty steep.

Maybe, the point is:

A) The Jets are in no hurry or pressure to move Kane (or Buff if he wants to stay)
B) "IF" the Jets were going to move Kane, there would likely be 29 other teams interested and serious interest from more than a dozen.
C) The Jets would "likely" want a comparable high end piece back, rather than just dilute one of their best young players into parts.

If you want to talk Galchenyuk for Kane, that might be something the Jets would be more interested in. If you're going to use multiple pieces, the Jets need the chance to possibly come out ahead if all the pieces develop. They are taking more of the risk.

If 35 year old Markov is worth Etem and a mid 20's 1st to you, why is Buff not worth a mid 20's pick and Scherbak?

 

[Huffer]

Max started that season at 22...

Wow, November birthday. Good one.

 

[CHaracter79]

DD would be best served staying in the eastern conference. The Jets already have 2 smallish centers and don't need a third.

Valid.

 

[CHaracter79]

Wow, November birthday. Good one.

ok fine...

in Max's 5th year after the draft.. he scored 33 goals

in Kanes 5th year after the draft.. he scored 19 in 63

 

[CHaracter79]

Maybe, the point is:

A) The Jets are in no hurry or pressure to move Kane (or Buff if he wants to stay)
B) "IF" the Jets were going to move Kane, there would likely be 29 other teams interested and serious interest from more than a dozen.
C) The Jets would "likely" want a comparable high end piece back, rather than just dilute one of their best young players into parts.

If you want to talk Galchenyuk for Kane, that might be something the Jets would be more interested in. If you're going to use multiple pieces, the Jets need the chance to possibly come out ahead if all the pieces develop. They are taking more of the risk.

If 35 year old Markov is worth Etem and a mid 20's 1st to you, why is Buff not worth a mid 20's pick and Scherbak?

for exactly that reason.

Markov's value is higher then Buff.

as for the multiple pieces... you are getting gallagher. whos a top 6 forward at 22 years old. you are also receiving picks. its not just prospects... its actual roster players. and not just throw ins.. gallagher has good value with potential to be upper echelon good value...

 

[Joe Hallenback]

Markov's trade value is not higher, not by a longshot. At best if you move Markov say at the deadline next year you probably only get picks and probably not a 1st at that.

Buff is much younger and his current cap is controlled for a few years. He is easily worth a mid to late 1st and top prospect.

The chances of getting a D/F like him is remote if not impossible. There isn't a lot of guys in the league that can do what he does

 

[CHaracter79]

Markov's trade value is not higher, not by a longshot. At best if you move Markov say at the deadline next year you probably only get picks and probably not a 1st at that.

Buff is much younger and his current cap is controlled for a few years. He is easily worth a mid to late 1st and top prospect.

The chances of getting a D/F like him is remote if not impossible. There isn't a lot of guys in the league that can do what he does

Buff has two years left on his contract. and Im pretty sure right now, almost every GM that has a win now attitude would take Markov over buff.

and yes, give up picks and prospects.

If brad stuart just got you a 2nd and 6th.. Markov gets you way more then that. WAY more.

 

[Huffer]

ok fine...

in Max's 5th year after the draft.. he scored 33 goals

in Kanes 5th year after the draft.. he scored 19 in 63

There you go, that's valid.

How about also:

1 year - Kane - 14, Max - 0
2 years - Kane - 19, Max - 3
3 years - Kane - 30, Max - 3
4 years - Kane - 17*, Max - 14 (* lockout season for Kane, not Max)
5 years - Kane - 19, Max - 33
6 years- Kane - ?, Max - 15* (*lockout season for Max, not Kane)
7 years - Kane - ?, Max - 39

So if Kane can get 15 goals in 44 games this season, he'll have outproduced Max in 5 of their 1st 6 years after being drafted. But yeah, picking year 5 is really the best way to judge. Has to be a reason for year 5 to be the best year to evaluate, I wonder what it is?

Thanks for steering this more towards Kane being more comparable to Max as opposed to Gallagher and a small plus though.