Jets - General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation 14-15 Part III

[Huffer]

I would like to keep him for a while also. I would definitely trade him for the right offer (I'd trade my grandmother for the right price). But this proposal doesn't come close. I wouldn't trade Postma straight up for Ellis and I like Mazanec about as much as I like Pavelec.

2015 1st & Forsberg gets my interest. If the Preds aren't willing to part with him, fine. No deal.

My thoughts as well. I'm really interested in seeing Kane play this season so for me, I don't have him anywhere near a guy I would be looking to move for a move sake.

I would listen to offers though (assuming for arguments sake that Kane would like to move), but some team would really needs to knock my socks off if I was Chevy. 1st + Forsberg/Fiala would be the least I would be asking as well.

 

[CaptainChef]

My thoughts as well. I'm really interested in seeing Kane play this season so for me, I don't have him anywhere near a guy I would be looking to move for a move sake.

I would listen to offers though (assuming for arguments sake that Kane would like to move), but some team would really needs to knock my socks off if I was Chevy. 1st + Forsberg/Fiala would be the least I would be asking as well.

I never really investigated Ellis enough to know if he was the type of defenseman that we need, but yes I agree with folks who want a LHD rather than a RH at this point. He is young though and I thought he was good enough to fit in as a top 4-depending on how Bogo progresses/comes back.

As for moving him for a first & Forsberg/Fiala, I really don't think that is enough (the LW prospects I mentioned in the proposal were not that big of a step down according to how HF rates them -- which admittedly may be a little off). I would really like to see a decent player plus a couple good prospects to consider a trade at this point (because I agree with those that would rather not trade him yet unless we get a very good return), and if Ellis isn't the type of player that fits our needs, I would retract my original proposal as well.

 

[Huffer]

I never really investigated Ellis enough to know if he was the type of defenseman that we need, but yes I agree with folks who want a LHD rather than a RH at this point. He is young though and I thought he was good enough to fit in as a top 4-depending on how Bogo progresses/comes back.

As for moving him for a first & Forsberg/Fiala, I really don't think that is enough (the LW prospects I mentioned in the proposal were not that big of a step down according to how HF rates them -- which admittedly may be a little off). I would really like to see a decent player plus a couple good prospects to consider a trade at this point (because I agree with those that would rather not trade him yet unless we get a very good return), and if Ellis isn't the type of player that fits our needs, I would retract my original proposal as well.

That's cool, I don't agree, but that's cool.

If I was the Jets GM and decided I was ok with moving Kane, there is no way I'm looking for a lesser "now" player and a couple of good prospects.

If the team is moving Kane, getting a worse player back and a couple of good prospects doesn't make us better now. So what's the point? If the team is moving Kane, I wouldn't have any desire for "now" pieces, because I don't see how moving Kane is going to make us better right now. No one is giving us a better player than Kane in the deal.

I'd be looking to then improve the team for 2015+. Getting their 2015 1st, and one of their top forwards like Forsberg/Fiala at the minimum. Forsberg is likely in the NHL this season, so more than likely a contributor to the top 9 in 2015, and Fiala should be as well with another season in a mens league.

That's the way I would be looking at it. We're looking to solve two different things. You seem to be looking for a lesser player back than Kane to soften the blow, and some prospects to hopefully make up the difference. I'd rather go for multiple high end younger pieces because to me, it's the only way we can possibly at some point come out ahead.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I never really investigated Ellis enough to know if he was the type of defenseman that we need, but yes I agree with folks who want a LHD rather than a RH at this point. He is young though and I thought he was good enough to fit in as a top 4-depending on how Bogo progresses/comes back.

As for moving him for a first & Forsberg/Fiala, I really don't think that is enough (the LW prospects I mentioned in the proposal were not that big of a step down according to how HF rates them -- which admittedly may be a little off). I would really like to see a decent player plus a couple good prospects to consider a trade at this point (because I agree with those that would rather not trade him yet unless we get a very good return), and if Ellis isn't the type of player that fits our needs, I would retract my original proposal as well.

I went and looked at the article you linked to as the starting point. I think the author proposed stealing Jeff Skinner as well although he admitted that it would take a lot to get him. His proposal for Yak was more than fair by me because I really don't like Yak. He may eventually become a very good player. He has talent but lacks positive attitude and maturity. Right now I see him becoming a superstar in the KHL.

 

[Whileee]

I never really investigated Ellis enough to know if he was the type of defenseman that we need, but yes I agree with folks who want a LHD rather than a RH at this point. He is young though and I thought he was good enough to fit in as a top 4-depending on how Bogo progresses/comes back.

As for moving him for a first & Forsberg/Fiala, I really don't think that is enough (the LW prospects I mentioned in the proposal were not that big of a step down according to how HF rates them -- which admittedly may be a little off). I would really like to see a decent player plus a couple good prospects to consider a trade at this point (because I agree with those that would rather not trade him yet unless we get a very good return), and if Ellis isn't the type of player that fits our needs, I would retract my original proposal as well.

Ellis would be a terrible idea as the return for Kane. I hope Chevy doesn't see this as the type of "player for player" deal everyone is so anxious for. Not only is Ellis a RHD, he is also small and not physical. I don't like the idea of the Jets trying to compete in the Western Conference with Enstrom, Ellis, Morrissey and Clitsome. I like puck-moving D, but having four of your core D at less than 6' is really pushing it.

I think that if the Jets trade Kane, they should try to swing for the fences with a high draft pick and/or top prospect as part of the return. I highly doubt that we'll see much movement of 2015 draft picks until later in the season or at the draft. Teams are going to have a better idea of what they are giving up based on their standing before they would move a 1st round pick. It's one more reason why I think that any trade of a core player on the Jets might have to wait until the trade deadline at the earliest. A team that is solidly in the mix for the playoffs might be happy to give up a 1st rounder then, but reluctant to do so now in case it ends up being a high pick.

 

[meedle]

I never really investigated Ellis enough to know if he was the type of defenseman that we need, but yes I agree with folks who want a LHD rather than a RH at this point. He is young though and I thought he was good enough to fit in as a top 4-depending on how Bogo progresses/comes back.

As for moving him for a first & Forsberg/Fiala, I really don't think that is enough (the LW prospects I mentioned in the proposal were not that big of a step down according to how HF rates them -- which admittedly may be a little off). I would really like to see a decent player plus a couple good prospects to consider a trade at this point (because I agree with those that would rather not trade him yet unless we get a very good return), and if Ellis isn't the type of player that fits our needs, I would retract my original proposal as well.

Personally I would take 1st+Forsberg/Fiala. That is pretty much a guaranteed top 14 pick in next years draft. Also like the Jets, Nashville doesn't have alot of depth and any kind of injury is going to sink them lower in the standings.

So ya, I would roll the dice on getting a top 10 pick. Maybe even top 5.

 

[CaptainChef]

Ellis would be a terrible idea as the return for Kane. I hope Chevy doesn't see this as the type of "player for player" deal everyone is so anxious for. Not only is Ellis a RHD, he is also small and not physical. I don't like the idea of the Jets trying to compete in the Western Conference with Enstrom, Ellis, Morrissey and Clitsome. I like puck-moving D, but having four of your core D at less than 6' is really pushing it.

I think that if the Jets trade Kane, they should try to swing for the fences with a high draft pick and/or top prospect as part of the return. I highly doubt that we'll see much movement of 2015 draft picks until later in the season or at the draft. Teams are going to have a better idea of what they are giving up based on their standing before they would move a 1st round pick. It's one more reason why I think that any trade of a core player on the Jets might have to wait until the trade deadline at the earliest. A team that is solidly in the mix for the playoffs might be happy to give up a 1st rounder then, but reluctant to do so now in case it ends up being a high pick.

Indeed, I'm nixing Ellis more the more I find out - RHD and smallish just won't cut it for sure. But then you go on to say that it would take at least a high draft pick OR a top prospect -- which is way too little.

If that first was McDavid or Eichel, then probably yes, but there is no way I make that an OR deal unless we're assured its first or second overall in 2015. In fact its unlikely we do Forsberg (a dang good prospect) AND a first at this point in time.

 

[meedle]

Indeed, I'm nixing Ellis more the more I find out - RHD and smallish just won't cut it for sure. But then you go on to say that it would take at least a high draft pick OR a top prospect -- which is way too little.

If that first was McDavid or Eichel, then probably yes, but there is no way I make that an OR deal unless we're assured its first or second overall in 2015. In fact its unlikely we do Forsberg (a dang good prospect) AND a first at this point in time.

There is no way you get top 5 for Kane alone. You are greatly overestimating how much he is worth and greatly underestimating how much a McDavid is worth.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Ellis would be a terrible idea as the return for Kane. I hope Chevy doesn't see this as the type of "player for player" deal everyone is so anxious for. Not only is Ellis a RHD, he is also small and not physical. I don't like the idea of the Jets trying to compete in the Western Conference with Enstrom, Ellis, Morrissey and Clitsome. I like puck-moving D, but having four of your core D at less than 6' is really pushing it.

I think that if the Jets trade Kane, they should try to swing for the fences with a high draft pick and/or top prospect as part of the return. I highly doubt that we'll see much movement of 2015 draft picks until later in the season or at the draft. Teams are going to have a better idea of what they are giving up based on their standing before they would move a 1st round pick. It's one more reason why I think that any trade of a core player on the Jets might have to wait until the trade deadline at the earliest. A team that is solidly in the mix for the playoffs might be happy to give up a 1st rounder then, but reluctant to do so now in case it ends up being a high pick.

Agree with your point about the small D but I am more concerned with weight than height, at least with the guys old enough to have reached their optimum playing weight. Morrissey is 6' and approaching 195 so he will be OK. Clitsome is 5'11" but carries 215 so size is not his problem. Enstrom is listed (perhaps a little generously as 5'10" & 180. Although he apparently makes up for it in other ways there can't be any doubt that his lack of bulk is a handicap. Ellis is also listed as 5'10" & 175-180. He too apparently compensates but he hasn't shown as much offense as Enstrom and I'm not sure how effectively he compensates. Why trade such a valuable asset for such a questionable return?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Personally I would take 1st+Forsberg/Fiala. That is pretty much a guaranteed top 14 pick in next years draft. Also like the Jets, Nashville doesn't have alot of depth and any kind of injury is going to sink them lower in the standings.

So ya, I would roll the dice on getting a top 10 pick. Maybe even top 5.

That might be hoping for too much. Nashville is better with Kane than with Forsberg. Still should be top 14 though.

 

[Whileee]

Indeed, I'm nixing Ellis more the more I find out - RHD and smallish just won't cut it for sure. But then you go on to say that it would take at least a high draft pick OR a top prospect -- which is way too little.

If that first was McDavid or Eichel, then probably yes, but there is no way I make that an OR deal unless we're assured its first or second overall in 2015. In fact its unlikely we do Forsberg (a dang good prospect) AND a first at this point in time.

I would look at a high draft pick or top prospect as part of the package for Kane. Depending on the pick / prospect, you could add to that.

 

[surixon]

I never really investigated Ellis enough to know if he was the type of defenseman that we need, but yes I agree with folks who want a LHD rather than a RH at this point. He is young though and I thought he was good enough to fit in as a top 4-depending on how Bogo progresses/comes back.

As for moving him for a first & Forsberg/Fiala, I really don't think that is enough (the LW prospects I mentioned in the proposal were not that big of a step down according to how HF rates them -- which admittedly may be a little off). I would really like to see a decent player plus a couple good prospects to consider a trade at this point (because I agree with those that would rather not trade him yet unless we get a very good return), and if Ellis isn't the type of player that fits our needs, I would retract my original proposal as well.

At this particular moment Ryan Ellis is a bottom pairing puck moving/pp specialist. While I don't particularly mind him, he has a career best of 27 points averaging 16 minutes a game, no where near a good enough player to be the center piece in a Kane deal. They would absolutely have to start with Fila or Forsberg to even get me to pick up the phone. Keep in mind they are a divisonal rival so they would have to pay well above market value to even get me to think to deal Kane within the division.

 

[ps241]

I would very much be in favour of moving Kane for a Phil Kessel like trade. At that time flying Phil was in a similar boat to what Kane is now and he fetched a 1st + a 2nd round pick then a 1st round pick the following season. Toronto promptly went in the tank and those picks ended up yielding Tyler Seguin. I doubt we would get that luck but that would be allot of value back for Evander depending on the team of coarse. That trade actually happened in September

There was a rumour at the draft this year that Kane + our 1st was in play to Florida for the 1st overall. So Kane + Ehlers for the 1st??? That would have been a terrible deal for us IMHO.

There is no way the 1st overall pick is in play this season.

 

[Jetabre]

I would very much be in favour of moving Kane for a Phil Kessel like trade. At that time flying Phil was in a similar boat to what Kane is now and he fetched a 1st + a 2nd round pick then a 1st round pick the following season. Toronto promptly went in the tank and those picks ended up yielding Tyler Seguin. I doubt we would get that luck but that would be allot of value back for Evander depending on the team of coarse. That trade actually happened in September

There was a rumour at the draft this year that Kane + our 1st was in play to Florida for the 1st overall. So Kane + Ehlers for the 1st??? That would have been a terrible deal for us IMHO.

There is no way the 1st overall pick is in play this season.

Yeah Chevy confirmed he was at least interested in moving up for the 1st or 2nd overall pick (Going to speculate for Reinhart since he was ok with the 2nd pick as well). I'd also make the assumption that Kane's name was in play for that deal, and that Buffalo flat out said no and Florida asked for a king's random which I'm happy Chevy would say no to. At least we can tell Chevy is looking at options as far as bigger trades.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Yeah Chevy confirmed he was at least interested in moving up for the 1st or 2nd overall pick (Going to speculate for Reinhart since he was ok with the 2nd pick as well). I'd also make the assumption that Kane's name was in play for that deal, and that Buffalo flat out said no and Florida asked for a king's random which I'm happy Chevy would say no to. At least we can tell Chevy is looking at options as far as bigger trades.

As the old saying goes "close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades".

 

[Jetabre]

As the old saying goes "close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades".

Well it's a bit more hopeful looking at it that way than imaging him just sitting at his cabin enjoying his summer with his cellphone turned off.

 

[pateramus]

I know its not fun when nothing is happening and then all the cracks about Chevy sleeping on the job start poring in, but I'd prefer to stand pat then to be on the losing end of a trade especially when it involves any of our higher profile guys. I'd take a gamble trading some of our bottom end guys. We did hear about him trying to upgrade our picks and I'm sure he is listening to offers for our guys. I'm sure he is looking around trying to upgrade our team, but great deals don't just fall into your lap. Every GM wants to get top return for their guys. I still believe in Chevy. Its not necessarily fun when there is not much movement or action, but so far it has probably been the correct decision.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

I know its not fun when nothing is happening and then all the cracks about Chevy sleeping on the job start poring in, but I'd prefer to stand pat then to be on the losing end of a trade especially when it involves any of our higher profile guys. I'd take a gamble trading some of our bottom end guys. We did hear about him trying to upgrade our picks and I'm sure he is listening to offers for our guys. I'm sure he is looking around trying to upgrade our team, but great deals don't just fall into your lap. Every GM wants to get top return for their guys. I still believe in Chevy. Its not necessarily fun when there is not much movement or action, but so far it has probably been the correct decision.

Sometimes the worst trade is the one you DON'T make.

 

[jetkarma*]

Sometimes the worst trade is the one you DON'T make.

As is the best one.

 

[Whileee]

Sometimes the worst trade is the one you DON'T make.

Yah, now you got me. I'm starting to get incredibly bummed out that Chevy hasn't made any of the imaginary trades that I've made in my head that would be totally awesome for the Jets.

#whatIdreamedandChevydidntdotoday

 

[Holden Caulfield]

As is the best one.

Simply let the core age out while never making playoffs is certainly the best strategy I agree.

Yah, now you got me. I'm starting to get incredibly bummed out that Chevy hasn't made any of the imaginary trades that I've made in my head that would be totally awesome for the Jets.

#whatIdreamedandChevydidntdotoday

What?

It's like some people like to pretend that no team ever makes trades and we are asking something unreal here. Teams trade, make improvements, set goals and try to build winning teams. This is a real thing. Just because the Jets either refuse or are unable to take advantage of all the tools at their disposal doesn't make it some impossible thing.

No one is asking for change for the sake of change either. All "chevy haters" are asking for is SLIGHTEST bit of direction for the franchise rather than listlessly drifting year to year with no plan. Not that much to ask for.

 

[meedle]

If you don't make trades, all the guys that have value will leave for nothing via UFA or will retire here. That would be very poor asset management and surely Chevy wouldn't be here that long if that were to happen. I already don't like the little bits and pieces that have left for nothing considering the position we are in.

 

[jetkarma*]

Simply let the core age out while never making playoffs is certainly the best strategy I agree.



What?

It's like some people like to pretend that no team ever makes trades and we are asking something unreal here. Teams trade, make improvements, set goals and try to build winning teams. This is a real thing.

No one is asking for change for the sake of change either. All "chevy haters" are asking for is SLIGHTEST bit of direction for the franchise rather than listlessly drifting year to year with no plan. Not that much to ask for.

Was there a deadline where players x y an z had to be moved?

We have direction , it just isn't what you think is the right path. Others however do think it is the right way , time will tell . Just like the draft choices.

 

[Channelcat]

Somehow, I get the feeling that in the future we will be discussing this "Kane deal" in similiar terms as Babych for Neufeld, Selanne for Kilger/Tverdovsky, Draper for 1$ etc.

Hopefully Chevy will continue to ignore the noise from Jets fans and stay the course.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Was there a deadline where players x y an z had to be moved?

We have direction , it just isn't what you think is the right path. Others however do think it is the right way , time will tell . Just like the draft choices.

Doing nothing is not a plan. Never has been, never will be. It's doing nothing.

Nobody ever has/had to be moved. Just some sort of direction needed to implemented. If the Jets wanted to build around the core of guys they had, they needed to do that. If the Jets wanted to build for the future they needed to do that. Being paralyzed by inaction is WORSE than taking even bad action.

Please explain to me what the plan is that so expertly went right over my head? Rebuild with draft picks? Well, no we are not adding picks overall and in fact drafting less than average in key early rounds. Try to win now? Well no results speak for themselves.

There is no clear goal, no clear plan. This is a group that is getting awful close being torn apart and when you consider it takes 3-5 years PAST first making playoffs to win the cup it is basically impossible for this group to ever be any kind of threat.