Speculation: Jets - General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation (12-13 Part XIII)

[garret9]

Hjalmarsson? I like his solid shut-down game, too.

He was saying Hjalm's D-partner

 

[Sweech]

God willing we actually make the post season it would be unbelievable to have this guy around. One of a few little men that actually excel more in the playoffs.

Yeah, he's a tough little sob. Which is why he's been sort of a fan favourite in my household even though none of us are Flyers fans.

 

[Aela*]

Problem is... in many ways Yandle needs sheltering more so than Buff
Buff at least beats tough matchups when with Enstrom, Yandle hasn't faced toughs in his career yet (although 2010-11 is pretty close)

Brodin is pretty amazing... should of been Calder winner IMO

True, but he basically carried the PHX offense by himself, which is pretty impressive. It's not like he's had as good partners as Buff either...I mean this year he had Schlemko and was still 1st in scoring on PHX.

Buff has mainly had Bogo or Enstrom, (granted he did play with Meech this year).

As for Brodin I'd love to have him...I def wouldn't give up Bogo + though. Bogo has emerged as one of the best shutdown, two way dmen in the league with a sample size of more then just 1 playoff series. Brodin has looked like a stud for sure, and I wouldn't hesitate to do Buff straight up, although I know how that would be received on these boards. More likely would be Burmistrov/Scheifele + 2013 1st + Postma/Redmond. Knowing HF boards I'd be mocked, but 2 first round picks and a potential 2nd pairing dman is a pretty good deal.

 

[Bob E]

Timonen is Fin but did pretty well in helping PHI get to the finals

That may be true, but would his value be more than Bogo? That was the original reason behind my original post.

Really don't think Timonen, Hjarmalsson, Oduya or Brodin has greater value than Bogo. Those players can play a role, but likely take a back seat to a gritty performer in the playoffs. Who did Timonen have again helping get his Flyers to the finals? Oh ya, some guy named Pronger.

 

[jetsfan101]

My thoughts as well. Maybe he turns out, but he hasn't gotten it done with Pietrangelo. Would be more interested in Jaskin and Edmundson from the Blues.

Fairly small sample, but Pietrangelo's CF% is better WITH Cole than without. Cole has held his own.

 

[truck]

Hjalmarsson? I like his solid shut-down game, too.

Nope. I am talking about the second Swedest D man to play for the Jets 2.0.

The one that is all skating and puck moving with no offense.

 

[Huffer]

I think the point was he is going NOWHERE

Then he could have said Brodin is going nowhere (which everyone knows). But he didn't, he said Bogo +.

 

[Bob E]

He was saying Hjalm's D-partner

Sure, Johnny 'uh oh'-duya is playing fine. But if I'm Chicago, I'm sure glad I have Keith, Seabrook and Hjarlm ahead of him.

Not sure why we're having this debate. Bogo, imo, has greater value than a smooth skating, puck moving dman that doesn't have a gritty part of their game, yet. Bogo > Brodin was my original point.

 

[Huffer]

Fairly small sample, but Pietrangelo's CF% is better WITH Cole than without. Cole has held his own.

Not according to Blues fans on this very site. He's not terrible, but he has not been able to lock down a top 4 spot given the opportunity.

 

[garret9]

True, but he basically carried the PHX offense by himself, which is pretty impressive. It's not like he's had as good partners as Buff either...I mean this year he had Schlemko and was still 1st in scoring on PHX.

Buff has mainly had Bogo or Enstrom, (granted he did play with Meech this year).

As for Brodin I'd love to have him...I def wouldn't give up Bogo + though. Bogo has emerged as one of the best shutdown, two way dmen in the league with a sample size of more then just 1 playoff series. Brodin has looked like a stud for sure, and I wouldn't hesitate to do Buff straight up, although I know how that would be received on these boards. More likely would be Burmistrov/Scheifele + 2013 1st + Postma/Redmond. Knowing HF boards I'd be mocked, but 2 first round picks and a potential 2nd pairing dman is a pretty good deal.

Buff only had Enstrom for 1/4 of his TOI this season; mostly he had Clitsome. Buff is also almost never.

Yandle mostly had Derek Morris... who isn't a world beater but comparing NHL careers to waiver wire Clitsome?

 

[Bob E]

Nope. I am talking about the second Swedest D man to play for the Jets 2.0.

The one that is all skating and puck moving with no offense.

Oh right, FREE pizza Johnny, when he played here, and if you watch closely, I'm sure you'll see he still likes to deliver free pizzas.

Bogo > FREE pizza Johnny Oduya.

So, I still wouldn't give a Bogo+ to get Oduya, Hjarml, or Brodin.

 

[garret9]

Sure, Johnny 'uh oh'-duya is playing fine. But if I'm Chicago, I'm sure glad I have Keith, Seabrook and Hjarlm ahead of him.

Not sure why we're having this debate. Bogo, imo, has greater value than a smooth skating, puck moving dman that doesn't have a gritty part of their game, yet. Bogo > Brodin was my original point.

I think we're confusing debates. We're not saying these players are better than Bogo...

Truck and I are saying talent gets you through PO more so than gritty.

We're not saying Bogo<Brodin... just that Bogo's fan appeal may be due to grittiness but his value and results lie in his talent. He had grittiness in ATL when he was called Bog-ohno too. Difference is he now is learning to use his talent and improving his talents (predominately his zone coverage).

There are many ****** gritty D in the ECHL and AHL. The ones in the NHL are there because they have more talent. That's all.

We just don't think you "need" grittiness to succeed in PO and that for the most part it's just a narrative that gets thrown around.

 

[truck]

Oh right, FREE pizza Johnny, when he played here, and if you watch closely, I'm sure you'll see he still likes to deliver free pizzas.

Bogo > FREE pizza Johnny Oduya.

So, I still wouldn't give a Bogo+ to get Oduya, Hjarml, or Brodin.

If you watch closely you see him making smart plays to start a s*** ton of breakouts - including the first pass in just about every video clip that analysts use to highlight the Hawks breakouts. He made lots of nice plays here too. A few free early pizzas gave him an unshakable rep, but he has always been decent.

Note: Not a world beater, but decent.

Not sure what you are going on about Bogo there. I never said Johnny O was better than Bogo, I simply pointed out that there was one smooth skating puck mover - still in the playoffs - contributing in a big way.

 

[Bob E]

Fair enough. My OP was in response to the post that Brodin's value was Bogo+.

I went on to say it was Bogo's grit - with his offensive game - that moved his vlaue ahead of Brodin, imo.

Dmen that can skate, move the puck, have some offensive to their game, while playing well positionally and play with an edge, are key guys. Let's call them 5 tool guys, for argument's sake. .

Not many dmen have all five. Bogo is close (his positioning and decision making continues to improve), and Trouba has shown that he has the potential or capability to have all 5, as well. Can you get by with only some, sure, but I agree with you and truck in the respect that if something had to give, having grit might be near the top (as long as they still work hard and can compete).

 

[Bob E]

If you watch closely you see him making smart plays to start a s*** ton of breakouts - including the first pass in just about every video clip that analysts use to highlight the Hawks breakouts. He made lots of nice plays here too. A few free early pizzas gave him an unshakable rep, but he has always been decent.

Note: Not a world beater, but decent.

Not sure what you are going on about Bogo there. I never said Johnny O was better than Bogo, I simply pointed out that there was one smooth skating puck mover - still in the playoffs - contributing in a big way.

Johnny is a lightning rod, no doubt. There was also a shift last game in OT where Johnny DIDN'T move the puck smartly, gave it away in the Hawks zone to start the shift and the Hawks spent nearly two minutes in their zone and couldn't change (long change). IF LA would have scored, the analysts would have pointed to Johnny's giveaway at the start - "where they could never recover".

He is what he is. But, imo, I would much rather have his defense partner on the Jets.

 

[jetsfan101]

Not according to Blues fans on this very site.

Argumentum ad populum.

I know the guy hasn't played top 4 minutes or special teams yet, I've already acknowledged as much. But in Cole's career, his metrics have been quite good, and Pietrangelo has been better with him than without (as have most of his teammates).

 

[sully1410]

Odyua's a swede?

 

[Sweech]

Odyua's a swede?

Stockholm.

 

[Bob E]

And what was Oduya doing on the Bruins first goal? Going behind the net. Hmmm. Lucic scored, where Johnny Uh Oh should have been.

Edit: Funny how Oduya has a close up after a goal. Seen that before.

 

[garret9]

And what was Oduya doing on the Bruins first goal? Going behind the net. Hmmm. Lucic scored, where Johnny Uh Oh should have been.

Edit: Funny how Oduya has a close up after a goal. Seen that before.

Confirmation bias?

 

[allan5oh]

There were 3 Blackhawks out of position on that play.

 

[Bob E]

Confirmation bias?

Just a little.

 

[Grind]

That may be true, but would his value be more than Bogo? That was the original reason behind my original post.

Really don't think Timonen, Hjarmalsson, Oduya or Brodin has greater value than Bogo. Those players can play a role, but likely take a back seat to a gritty performer in the playoffs. Who did Timonen have again helping get his Flyers to the finals? Oh ya, some guy named Pronger.[/QUOTE]

misconception.

timonen did not play with pronger, Matt Carle did.

 

[Huffer]

Argumentum ad populum.

I know the guy hasn't played top 4 minutes or special teams yet, I've already acknowledged as much. But in Cole's career, his metrics have been quite good, and Pietrangelo has been better with him than without (as have most of his teammates).

If you want to call it that it's your prerogative. It also might be true, but I prefer to look at it as getting information from people who are in the best position to give it.

I wouldn't mind Cole, I thought Cole + might have been a good return for Hainsey at the deadline. I just don't like dealing Burmistrov for him.

 

[Aela*]

Buff only had Enstrom for 1/4 of his TOI this season; mostly he had Clitsome. Buff is also almost never.

Yandle mostly had Derek Morris... who isn't a world beater but comparing NHL careers to waiver wire Clitsome?

MMMM I'd personally rather have Clitsome on my line.