Post-Game Talk: Jets 4- Preds 3 in OT

[WolfHouse]

How do you reckon the coaches view Pionk? No Jet makes me more likely to scream at the telly than Neal. And yet here he is.

Ehlers hasn't always played this way. Not sure what's going on and whether it's a side effect of trying way too hard to have an impact at whatever cost, but I don't think he's a fit here anymore, certainly not under Bones.

If I were the Jets I'd be looking at an offseason trade at this point and look to start drafting for team identity over raw skill. I can see Nik being a nice add for a few teams round the league.

Nino-names-ehlers played well together and the perfetti combo did too

But yes I think he's traded in the summer hopefully with Schmidt or pionk too

 

[jungles]

teams

I'm totally confused. (Some days it doesn't take much.)

I watched most of the game last night, missing only the last 5 minutes of the second for a phone call, and I really enjoyed it. Villardi's goal was astounding, confirmed by the fact that they replayed it a dozen times. with all sorts of praise for Scheifele's set up. More praise for Scheifele for his own superb deke on the goalie to score from in close. And then DeMelo gets a perfect pass in the slot and blasts it home. What a lovely evening of hockey!

But when I visit here I learn that the Jets were terrible and every player on the team was useless except for Hellebuyck. The coach is an idiot, Scheifele's bored and goofing off, and we're going to get destroyed in the playoffs. And that was just in the first few pages of the PGT.

Maybe I was watching a different game?

So I skipped the rest of the PGT and when to SportsCentre highlights where they praise the Jets' effort and terrific victory in overtime. And I looked at SportsNet where they also praise Scheifele's goal and two assists and promote Villardi's effort for the year-end highlight package.

So I didn't imagine what I saw last night with my own eyes. We really did win and take two points. And almost nobody here wants to celebrate that. I know guys in general are often hard to fathom but the crowd in here has left me totally confused.

If a pilot nose dives on approach, pulls out of it at the last second and nearly skids off the runway, sure you could say "we landed safely, isn't that what matters?". But I sure as heck wouldn't be confident in his ability to land it again if I flew with him next week.

 

[Buffdog]

Except we have lots of data showing that Scheifele does better when Ehlers is on his wing at 5v5.
Scheifele+Ehlers
24-10 +14 goals for
3.53-1.47 GF/GA per 60
55% of the xGs, 56% of the scoring chances

Ehlers without Schiefele is still pretty good: 34-21 +13 goals for. 3.32-2.05 GF/GA per 60. 55% xGF, 55% SCF.

Scheif without Ehlers, though: 33-33 -1 goals for. 2.70-2.78 GF/GA per 60. 41% xGF, 33% SCF.

Like what chemistry are we talking about? Is the sex bad?

Again, you're just looking at numbers. I'm trying to give insight into why schief might not love playing with ehlers, regardless of results. That might be a factor in why he plays more with Connor

Based on what I've seen, I think the main driving force behind the success of ESV is the chemistry between Ehlers and Vilardi. They seem to think the game in a similar manner

 

[Joe Hallenback]

How do you reckon the coaches view Pionk? No Jet makes me more likely to scream at the telly than Neal. And yet here he is.

Ehlers hasn't always played this way. Not sure what's going on and whether it's a side effect of trying way too hard to have an impact at whatever cost, but I don't think he's a fit here anymore, certainly not under Bones.

If I were the Jets I'd be looking at an offseason trade at this point and look to start drafting for team identity over raw skill. I can see Nik being a nice add for a few teams round the league.

I think Pionk plays a position that requires more then just him. Playing defense is a team effort and if you expect your defense to do it all things will generally go bad for you. Did Pionk have a poor game, yes, but should he be solely responsible for everything that occurs on the ice in the defensive zone leading up to a poor play or decision? Probably not.

My problem with Ehlers and to a lesser extent Perfetti yesterday was there are times when you need to make something happen and times when you don't. If you are down by 2 late in a game then gamble away but early on especially when you are leading just make the safe smart play. He just absolutely refused to do it or is incapable of doing it and so the coach is likely just going to sit you down as a forward because he can afford to do so especially if you are leading in a game.

I think yesterday's game was one were the Jets D as a whole were being pressured heavily by a physical forecheck and they really need the forwards to help them out making smart plays and coming back. Especially when you move down the pairings. Not everyone is Morrissey and even he can get hemmed in without some help.

Can Pionk be better yes. But at the same time your forwards have to help you out and make the game easier for you. Nothing worse then fighting to get the puck out for 30 seconds to see your forward turn it over at the blueline and you stuck in no man's land.

As for Ehlers going some where else. I am sure he will be fine and exciting and do his thing but he is probably replaceable in the long term

 

[LowLefty]

How do you reckon the coaches view Pionk? No Jet makes me more likely to scream at the telly than Neal. And yet here he is.

Ehlers hasn't always played this way. Not sure what's going on and whether it's a side effect of trying way too hard to have an impact at whatever cost, but I don't think he's a fit here anymore, certainly not under Bones.

If I were the Jets I'd be looking at an offseason trade at this point and look to start drafting for team identity over raw skill. I can see Nik being a nice add for a few teams round the league.

What I find interesting is that Ehlers tends to try some of the riskier stuff when he is out there with 55 - almost like he is trying to prove something.
His game actually looks better when he's driving play with a lesser center where he is less concerned about making a pretty play and more about getting the puck to the net.
I don't see playmaking as one of Ehlers top skills - he's more of a puck mover. But he might think he needs to be when he's out there with 55.
That's one of the main reasons I see him better suited to work with forwards that simply go to the net and battle - IOW's, get out of the way.
Just my take - pure speculation.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Really looking forward to these!

 

[bustamente]

Really looking forward to these!

Especially if the Jets can get thru the first round

 

[Gm0ney]

Again, you're just looking at numbers. I'm trying to give insight into why schief might not love playing with ehlers, regardless of results. That might be a factor in why he plays more with Connor

Based on what I've seen, I think the main driving force behind the success of ESV is the chemistry between Ehlers and Vilardi. They seem to think the game in a similar manner

What are we supposed to be looking at when we're talking about chemistry if not the results?

 

[Howard Chuck]

How do you reckon the coaches view Pionk? No Jet makes me more likely to scream at the telly than Neal. And yet here he is.

Ehlers hasn't always played this way. Not sure what's going on and whether it's a side effect of trying way too hard to have an impact at whatever cost, but I don't think he's a fit here anymore, certainly not under Bones.

If I were the Jets I'd be looking at an offseason trade at this point and look to start drafting for team identity over raw skill. I can see Nik being a nice add for a few teams round the league.

Totally with you on team identity. We really had this in the first half of the year but it seems to have disappeared.

 

[DRW204]

these parties have lost its luster or appeal to me since the 2018 run. maybe grown up a bit (hmm doubt it lol) but the 2018 street parties were just on a different level. not to mention last year was hilarious how they celebrated like they won a championship w/ fireworks after losses.

 

[surixon]

I think Pionk plays a position that requires more then just him. Playing defense is a team effort and if you expect your defense to do it all things will generally go bad for you. Did Pionk have a poor game, yes, but should he be solely responsible for everything that occurs on the ice in the defensive zone leading up to a poor play or decision? Probably not.

My problem with Ehlers and to a lesser extent Perfetti yesterday was there are times when you need to make something happen and times when you don't. If you are down by 2 late in a game then gamble away but early on especially when you are leading just make the safe smart play. He just absolutely refused to do it or is incapable of doing it and so the coach is likely just going to sit you down as a forward because he can afford to do so especially if you are leading in a game.

I think yesterday's game was one were the Jets D as a whole were being pressured heavily by a physical forecheck and they really need the forwards to help them out making smart plays and coming back. Especially when you move down the pairings. Not everyone is Morrissey and even he can get hemmed in without some help.

Can Pionk be better yes. But at the same time your forwards have to help you out and make the game easier for you. Nothing worse then fighting to get the puck out for 30 seconds to see your forward turn it over at the blueline and you stuck in no man's land.

As for Ehlers going some where else. I am sure he will be fine and exciting and do his thing but he is probably replaceable in the long term

I'm not sure why your signaling out Cole for that. His issues in the third weren't related to trying to make things happen and turning pucks over. He sat right after he missed a defensive assignment that lead to the Preds second goal against. None of the transitions or turnovers that lead to that goal or the other high danger chance against came off his stick.

 

[Gm0ney]

What I find interesting is that Ehlers tends to try some of the riskier stuff when he is out there with 55 - almost like he is trying to prove something.
His game actually looks better when he's driving play with a lesser center where he is less concerned about making a pretty play and more about getting the puck to the net.
I don't see playmaking as one of Ehlers top skills - he's more of a puck mover. But he might think he needs to be when he's out there with 55.
That's one of the main reasons I see him better suited to work with forwards that simply go to the net and battle - IOW's, get out of the way.
Just my take - pure speculation.

Maybe he is putting some additional pressure on himself to perform when he's on the top line. I think he knows how tenuous his position is there. If it's clear to us, it's clear to him.

 

[Gil Fisher]

I think Ehlers riverboat gambler shit would be frustrating as hell to coach as well. That is some grade A beer league stuff he does. Its great when it works but man as a coach I would be pulling my hair out.

yet there he is plain to see....by far the most successful 5v5 player we have had for 8 years. no one is close in actual results.

so watch out for bald coaches.

 

[surixon]

Maybe he is putting some additional pressure on himself to perform when he's on the top line. I think he knows how tenuous his position is there. If it's clear to us, it's clear to him.

Definitely some of this as well imo.

 

[bustamente]

these parties have lost its luster or appeal to me since the 2018 run. maybe grown up a bit (hmm doubt it lol) but the 2018 street parties were just on a different level. not to mention last year was hilarious how they celebrated like they won a championship w/ fireworks after losses.

Have to say the street parties really don't have much of an appeal for me, too old don't like crowds but for many it's something they really want to be a part of so I'm happy that they get a chance to celebrate.

 

[LowLefty]

Maybe he is putting some additional pressure on himself to perform when he's on the top line. I think he knows how tenuous his position is there. If it's clear to us, it's clear to him.

I'd agree he is putting more pressure on himself which might result in him playing a game style that he might not be best suited for - or a style he prefers to play. It looks to me like he wants to add a thick layer of creativity to his game when playing with Scheif - maybe he shouldn't do that because I doubt anyone is asking him to.

 

[surixon]

I'd agree he is putting more pressure on himself which might result in him playing a game style that he might not be best suited for - or a style he prefers to play. It looks to me like he wants to add a thick layer of creativity to his game when playing with Scheif - maybe he shouldn't do that because I doubt anyone is asking him to.

I mean the coach just called him out in the press within the last few days. So yeah extra pressure to make things happen.

 

[Stumbledore]

I won't go so far as to question some posters' mental health (because I'm just a girl and everyone knows that we become totally irrational and lose our minds for a few days each month) but there's evidence aplenty in here of people with real problems.

Yeah everyone knows it but your never allowed to say it nowadays without catching 10 kinds of hell.

 

[Vinther]

You make teams like that pay, in 2 ways:

Really quick exits and transitions, which can trap teams that are aggressively hitting you

Make them pay on the pp

Those two things will cause teams like this to back off.

Regardless of line combinations and a couple of PP goals lately I still fear that our PP will be the weak link in the playoff.

 

[WolfHouse]

You have only been on these boards for a couple of years get to my level lol

The term "FANS" comes from the word Fanatics which means a person filled with excessive and single minded zeal. While it does mean a devotion to a group or idea it could also take a very negative tone when things don't happen the way they think it should. Even if they have no qualifications to make said judgments of whatever they support.

While your concern for mental health is appreciated, I can assure you across the spectrum of sports all teams have the same "Fans" supporting them.

Fun fact: that's not how Latin words work... if you shortern fanatic to fan it has a completely different context - a much more moderate one actually

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The little things can end up making a big difference in a playoff series.

Hard enough for a coach to make effective adjustments on the fly and consistently make the right ones.

I think it's key not to make any self inflicted mistakes. Hopefully when it comes to playoff time the 81-55 and Pionk issues we have discussed over and over don't end up being that.

I don't want to pretend that they *will* come back to haunt us no matter what, or that they will even happen at all. They are absolutely reasons for concern though.

Which means that Bones is the concern.

I don't buy the idea that a coach with Bowness's experience would accept less than full control over his roster. He may be trying too hard to please his core vets with his choices but that is a different story. That would also be on him.

 

[JetsFan815]

I for one am not excited about the idea that these are potentially the last ~10 games of Ehlers in a Jets Jersey (assuming a 4-2 1st round exit). He is probably gonna say thanks but no thanks of they ask him if he wants to re-sign on July 1st and they're gonna have to trade him to avoid him walking for nothing.

This window will be rough to keep open... the 5v5 play is the first thing that will go back to the stone age.

Really should have hired Torts instead we got Maurice 2.0 who coddles a select few vets, yet another season down the drain most likely.

 

[Skidooboy]

yet there he is plain to see....by far the most successful 5v5 player we have had for 8 years. no one is close in actual results.

so watch out for bald coaches.

Actual results:

I've been waiting for them from Ehlers since day 1.

Talk to me about success when he scores 75+ points and plays a full season.

Ehlers despite all the fancy stats and promise needs good players to make him better.

Been saying it for years. his hands and feet are three steps ahead but his brain is 2 behind.

He is unpredictable, injury prone, error prone, and scores less than other Jets. while losing puck battles and making too many hotdog passes... His zone entry is inflated by the many many times he flies in to the zone, then does a big skate, dumps or loses a puck somewhere , ending up in a turnover, and then its a mad skate back to the D-zone with almost no actual useful possession time.

as for results? when they really matter?
When the team has lost top liners etc & in the playoffs? He disappears...
4 goals 8 A in 32 GP.
#55 19/13 for 32 points in 37 games.

he is what he is and he deserves what he has.

 

[Stumbledore]

I just want 'mcdavid' pionk back then I'll be fine

Careful what you wish for. McDavid is out with LBI and listed day to day.

 

[scelaton]

yes, bones who was close to retiring, is in what may be his final year, who had already stripped the captaincy from wheeler last year, who already left this season because he had to take care of his sick wife, came back to not have full control of his roster decisions... I wish people would stop running with made up conspiracy theories...

Get your head out of the sand, man. They've already written a book about it.