Player Discussion Jesse Puljujarvi Discussion Part 4 [UPD: Nov 24th Recalled]

[Coffey]

When he still isn't contributing as a regular roster player by age 26 or so. And that's moving the goalposts, your post read "I don't see anything that would make him a stud", which is very different from being able to put it together as a star. Pulju has the skating, size, strength, shot power to very clearly have the potential to be a star. His problem has been, and remains, his inability to consistently contribute.

I’m not moving any goalposts. He doesn’t seem like anything to me. Just another Spooner/Strome mold.

Guess we got another Yak.

 

[Coffey]

Basically, I don't think I would notice that he wasn't in the lineup if he was replaced by guys like Reider, Cagguila, etc...

Agreed 100%

 

[space321]

So how many years will have to pass before you say “ok he isn’t an NHL player”?

well for sure more than 2...

Personally, I'd give top prospects like 5 years

 

[Coffey]

well for sure more than 2...

Personally, I'd give top prospects like 5 years

Guess it sucks we only gave Yak 4 years.

 

[frag2]

When he still isn't contributing as a regular roster player by age 26 or so. And that's moving the goalposts, your post read "I don't see anything that would make him a stud", which is very different from being able to put it together as a star. Pulju has the skating, size, strength, shot power to very clearly have the potential to be a star. His problem has been, and remains, his inability to consistently contribute.

He's like the forward version of Nurse IMO. I think most here can agree he has all the raw physical tools but his IQ is quite lacking. He can't read the play and seems to trail behind and thus, having difficulty contributing consistently. A strange observation but I also think that JP has this weird disconnect between his brain and body. It's like he's still 'learning' to use his frame and limbs.

 

[Aerrol]

He's like the forward version of Nurse IMO. I think most here can agree he has all the raw physical tools but his IQ is quite lacking. He can't read the play and seems to trail behind and thus, having difficulty contributing consistently. A strange observation but I also think that JP has this weird disconnect between his brain and body. It's like he's still 'learning' to use his frame and limbs.

I don't disagree with any of this. I just find it laughable to see claims of "oh he's not good at anything at the NHL level".

 

[Aerrol]

I’m not moving any goalposts. He doesn’t seem like anything to me. Just another Spooner/Strome mold.

Guess we got another Yak.

AW GEE, THE OILERS SUCK AT DRAFTING AND DEVELOPMENT! What an astounding insight no one has ever noticed before!

 

[Coffey]

AW GEE, THE OILERS SUCK AT DRAFTING AND DEVELOPMENT! What an astounding insight no one has ever noticed before!

I didn't say that.
Stop giving strawman arguments.

I just said that JP isn't very good and we should trade him before we get little to nothing in return.

 

[frag2]

I don't disagree with any of this. I just find it laughable to see claims of "oh he's not good at anything at the NHL level".

Well, to be fair, for a while he did look like he didn't belong. Part of that was lack of guidance but also on himself as well. Who knew he was THIS raw , especially for a top 5 pick

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

I don't disagree with any of this. I just find it laughable to see claims of "oh he's not good at anything at the NHL level".

He seems to struggle with a lot of the basics TBH

 

[nabob]

The puck I meant. Typo.
Yea that play for the goal was neat, but I would expect something like that every game for me to change my mind.

He had a couple even better setups in the previous game. Two cerybearly in the 1st. One to Nuge and one to Khaira. Are you faulting him for his linemates not converting? Or do you simply look at the boxscores to determine if a player has a good game?

 

[nabob]

Well, to be fair, for a while he did look like he didn't belong. Part of that was lack of guidance but also on himself as well. Who knew he was THIS raw , especially for a top 5 pick

Hitchcock knew it after a couple of games/practices.

It’s become very clear that a large portion of Jesse’s poor development is because of terrible coaching. That mirrors the rest of the performance of the team as well.

 

[nabob]

He's like the forward version of Nurse IMO. I think most here can agree he has all the raw physical tools but his IQ is quite lacking. He can't read the play and seems to trail behind and thus, having difficulty contributing consistently. A strange observation but I also think that JP has this weird disconnect between his brain and body. It's like he's still 'learning' to use his frame and limbs.

Nurse is our only Dman who is capable of reading the play and jumping up without getting caught. The “low hockey IQ” crap for him really doesn’t apply at all any more.

 

[nabob]

So how many years will have to pass before you say “ok he isn’t an NHL player”?

How about one full one under a decent coach?

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Hitchcock knew it after a couple of games/practices.

It’s become very clear that a large portion of Jesse’s poor development is because of terrible coaching. That mirrors the rest of the performance of the team as well.

Are you f***ing kidding me? Do I think he was handled right? No. Is it all on the coach? Not even close. He hasn’t even made a proper effort to learn English FFS. You know the language they communicate on the ice with? He doesn’t finish his hits ever and looks lost in the offensive zone. I do think tmac used him poorly but caaamaan you are grasping for straws here trying to justify a prospect not playing close to good enough.

 

[nabob]

Are you ****ing kidding me? Do I think he was handled right? No. Is it all on the coach? Not even close. He hasn’t even made a proper effort to learn English FFS. You know the language they communicate on the ice with? He doesn’t finish his hits ever and looks lost in the offensive zone. I do think tmac used him poorly but caaamaan you are grasping for straws here trying to justify a prospect not playing close to good enough.

So you agree with me that TMac used him poorly but you disagree when I say TMac failed in developing him.

Sounds like you’re having an issue comprehending what I wrote and strictly want to argue about things I didn’t say.

To say we should give up on him because he doesn’t finish enough hits is one of the stupidest things I have ever read.

I won’t respond to your posts in the future. You clearly don’t have any intention of having a honest discussion.

 

[Aerrol]

I didn't say that.
Stop giving strawman arguments.

I just said that JP isn't very good and we should trade him before we get little to nothing in return.

Yet again, this began with the following post which is just flat out untrue:

I don't see anything that would make him a stud.

He can't accelerate.

He can't shoot.

He can't hit.


It's like everything he could do when he was younger, he's incapable of doing against NHL players.

Now you've moved your goalposts even further to trading him to avoid admitting you were wrong.

As for trading him, sure, if we can actually get an upgrade on him. The time to get significant value on him is likely long past, and we finally seem to have a coach who is actually trying to develop him, so I'd rather keep him and see if he can settle in under Hitch.

I also always love the silly fan complaint of X PLAYER SUX, WHY DON'T WE TRADE HIM FOR SOMETHING AWESOME?!

 

[Little Fury]

Guess it sucks we only gave Yak 4 years.

Yak was completely ruined by garbage coaching and playing on a team that was completely rudderless. Hopefully Jesse is in a better developmental environment.

But it's probably futile to argue with someone writing off a 20 year old with just over 100 GP.

 

[Coffey]

Now you've moved your goalposts even further to trading him to avoid admitting you were wrong.

I'm not wrong at all, my point still stands.

He can't accelerate.

He can't shoot.

He can't hit.

I don't think you know what moving goalposts is, I'm not changing any focus on my argument. My point is... He stinks.

 

[nabob]

Yak was completely ruined by garbage coaching and playing on a team that was completely rudderless. Hopefully Jesse is in a better developmental environment.

But it's probably futile to argue with someone writing off a 20 year old with just over 100 GP.

How many of those games was he benched for one mistake or only played 5-7 minutes on the 4th line. It’s refreshing to see him get some good coaching and a real opportunity under Hitchcock. Just the way Hitchcock talks about him in comparison to McLellan is night and day. McLellan reminds me of a hockeybdad who would degrade and punish his kid for playing poorly where Hitchcock works to build up his kid and helps him rather than riding him.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

lol my point was JP is just as much to blame if not more as tmac. edit : you are right my post was a little harsh. That’s my bad.

 

[frag2]

Hitchcock knew it after a couple of games/practices.

It’s become very clear that a large portion of Jesse’s poor development is because of terrible coaching. That mirrors the rest of the performance of the team as well.

By no means am I absolving Tmac. He doesn't even know what a time out is. That said, there were numerous media heads questioning JP's maturity. I've said it in his first season-it looked like the guy was just happy to be here; didnt see the NHL as anything more than 'just a game', not a job. It seems like this year, he's taken a more serious approach.

Nurse is our only Dman who is capable of reading the play and jumping up without getting caught. The “low hockey IQ” crap for him really doesn’t apply at all any more.

He's still extremely questionable in our zone, especially without the puck.

 

[Coffey]

I didn't realize saying that JP stinks was like going on Twitter and saying Beyonce can't sing well.
Could someone show me 2 flashes of "Wow this kid is going to be something!" from this year?
Just 2 from this year.

 

[nabob]

I didn't realize saying that JP stinks was like going on Twitter and saying Beyonce can't sing well.
Could someone show me 2 flashes of "Wow this kid is going to be something!" from this year?
Just 2 from this year.

Wait didn’t you earlier say that you have to see that every game to admit he isn’t a bust yet?

 

[Coffey]

Wait didn’t you earlier say that you have to see that every game to admit he isn’t a bust yet?

Maybe I missed something? But from what I see, game in and game out, he's a shlub that can't think the game fast enough, get's knocked off the puck easily and accelerates like Jason Allison for some reason.