Player Discussion Jesse Puljujarvi '18-19 Season Part II

[GameChanger]

Oh by the way, last December Puljujarvi said in a Finnish article the following:

"I like to play with a player like that. McDavid is a good fit for me. I need good players by my side so that I can play well myself."

So he seemed to realize he wasn't ready to stand out strongly enough in the bottom6, but I know he's doing his best and working hard so we'll see where this leads.

At the time of the article Puljujarvi had scored 3+2 in the five previous games and in that particular game McDavid scored 1+3. According to the article they did well together so at least they had some good times.

 

[Zaddy]

If I recall correctly there was some report last spring talking about how Jesse needed to mature and take more responsibility and be given a shorter leash by the coaches etc. At the time I dismissed it as silly talk but now I'm starting to think they were right. Jesse really hasn't shown enough to be spoonfed minutes in the top6 next to Drai or McDavid.

And just from reading these interviews in finnish that some posters in here have translated for us it sounds a lot like he thinks he deserves those minutes, but the reality is that he hasn't shown much at all in these past three years. I'm not saying McLellan's handling of him has been perfect, far from it, but at some point it's on him to take responsibility and start doing the right things out there on the ice.

He's in his third year now but he's still so weak on the puck, doesn't use his size and reach to his advantage at all and still makes some silly mistakes out there. It's like he's a finesse player trapped in a big man's body, but the problem is that he just doesn't have the puck skills, hands or hockey IQ to play that type of game. If I was on the coaching staff I'd tell him to start watching hours and hours of footage on Crosby and learn how to properly use his size to protect the puck and grind in the corners. That's what he should be working on in the summers, constant 1on1 or 1on2 drills in the corners. Stuff like this:




That along with stickhandling and especially his hands in tight to the goal, because that's an area where he is very weak too.

He should also really simplify his game. If he plays with a guy like Draisaitl he really only has one job, get him the puck and then go to the net. That's all he has to do. But I think he's still a kid on the inside and just haven't matured yet and realized what he needs to do to be successful in this league. Instead he's still trying to play a fancy game and be this skilled high-end player like he's been all of his life up until this point. But if he wants to be successful in the NHL he'll have to learn that lesson at some point and work on the things I mentioned above because that'll be his niche in the NHL where he can find success thanks to his size and skating.

 

[BudBundy]

That's your opinion and i respect it.
But as i said how sure you are about that Jesse's busting is 99% for McLellan?
It's not only McLellan it's Jesse himself, McLellan and Oilers management all together.

I’d put it at 70% Todd, 30% on Jesse if forced to assign numbers. Jesse is a great big loveable kid. I sincerely believe he can be something very much akin to Rick Nash or Blake Wheeler. A huge, fast swooping winger adept at carrying the puck and backing off defenders. If all goes well, he’ll be a one-man guaranteed zone entry guy and those are hard to find. He has some bad lapses. He should as he’s only 20. Slow skates to the bench on line changes, some confusion as to which man to pick up. The point is that the talent, physical tools and work ethic (at least in-game, we dont know practice habits) are there. What irks me is how short the leash is on Jesse versus other wingers like Caggiula and Yamamoto. One small mistake, and it literally happened in the first game against New Jersey, and he’s benched. No PP time. How could his confidence stand up?? Obviously I dont know the kid personally but I just feel a more fatherly and encouraging approach would do wonders for him. Once Jesse gets into a routine and has to think less about his duties and about the coach breathing down his neck, I think he’d go nuclear. Instead, it appears Todd is more than willing to bust his ballz, run McDavid 28 minutes a night and let short-term desperation rule over doing the right thing. The right thing is to run Jesse more, ignore some of the warts, and prevent the club from trading Jesse for peanuts and watching him mature elsewhere.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It didn't look like he was demolished in highlights, which unfortunately is the best I could do, but you're right about those teams. I personally don't expect much with a TOI of 9 minutes as in the last game, but I hope he could shine in the shifts he got in the top6.

Maybe I'm happy with less than some others, but I don't think "an assist" in a goal and a good chance together with Drai was such a bad achievement for a bit over one period he had. However, I also understand the need for the coach to do some changes and know Pulju is the one whose place isn't secured. I'm afraid he may feel like that, too, and thus feel extra pressure in addition to watching his mates succeed in top3 roles.

E: I rewatched the highlights and take my words back a bit as it's impossible to say if Pulju touched the puck or not. In any case he definitely played a part in the goal by pushing a player away and thus creating room for Drai.

The telecast thought that he touched the puck and at lest kept it in the zone. To me it looks like he touched the puck. I can't understand him not getting an assist on the play. The puck was challenged prior to Draisaitl scoring. Either it should be an unassisted effort, or both Nuge and Pulju should have assists on the play. Looked at it several times. Too bad there aren't different angles to look at the play.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Oh by the way, last December Puljujarvi said in a Finnish article the following:

"I like to play with a player like that. McDavid is a good fit for me. I need good players by my side so that I can play well myself."

So he seemed to realize he wasn't ready to stand out strongly enough in the bottom6, but I know he's doing his best and working hard so we'll see where this leads.

At the time of the article Puljujarvi had scored 3+2 in the five previous games and in that particular game McDavid scored 1+3. According to the article they did well together so at least they had some good times.

While I'm not keen on a young player flatly saying where he wants to be and that he needs that (kind of rubs me the wrong way) I will mention that Kailer Yamamoto has had a CONSTANT diet of top six and now top line and has 1 pt in 7 games with it which is actually astoundingly inept considering how much McD has been around production. I've said it before but Yama is often the cooler on his line and with him, a topline seems almost like its playing short handed. It isn't enough that he falls down and draws penalties.

 

[GameChanger]

The telecast thought that he touched the puck and at lest kept it in the zone. To me it looks like he touched the puck. I can't understand him not getting an assist on the play. The puck was challenged prior to Draisaitl scoring. Either it should be an unassisted effort, or both Nuge and Pulju should have assists on the play. Looked at it several times. Too bad there aren't different angles to look at the play.

Thanks for the info! Basically it's a bit sad that we even need to talk about one assist, but it's the beginning of the season and after these games any points may affect the way fans and maybe McLellan see him. More importantly, I believe the points would help Jesse mentally as I still believe it's mainly that.

Him fixing the mental issues doesn't mean everything turns perfect automatically, it's still gonna take a lot of work and some patience, but him playing his best hockey can provide good things for the team. Or raise his value if he's still traded to another team later on.

 

[GameChanger]

While I'm not keen on a young player flatly saying where he wants to be and that he needs that (kind of rubs me the wrong way) I will mention that Kailer Yamamoto has had a CONSTANT diet of top six and now top line and has 1 pt in 7 games with it which is actually astoundingly inept considering how much McD has been around production. I've said it before but Yama is often the cooler on his line and with him, a topline seems almost like its playing short handed. It isn't enough that he falls down and draws penalties.

Again I take the role of defending Pulju, but even though I think he sometimes could've said better things to help himself (like not mentioning the English lessons), I don't think he actually said anything bad there. That's just my opinion and I understand how you saw it. I think it's more reckognizing his limits and knowing Jesse's work ethic and mentality he knows he needs to keep working hard and that he needs to play with whatever is given to him. And saying that he likes to play with McDavid especially after a succesful stretch of games is not a huge surprise. I would actually like to do it, too, but I don't think it goes the other way around

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

A great post from you, but often you can make the process faster by feeding the player top6 and PP time, but I understand McLellan and many fans don't believe in that, so maybe another team like Carolina could indeed work better. Anyone may correct me if needed, but it's pretty hard to think of similar top prospects during the past years who either weren't put to top6 almost immediately or who managed to score good points outside of it.

I still believe Puljujarvi's situation in the Oilers could look very different with another coach, who could accept him with his faults and see that already as he is Pulju could've served the team better with another kind of approach.

Some don't like the stats I bring, but Pulju's earlier points/60 in a top6 position with McD or Drai look fine to me. In fact the average would've been 3rd/4th of the team in his 1st season, and 5th (about shared) in the 2nd one. To this biased supporter those numbers for a 18/19 year old don't really look that bad, but I do know some disagree with my view and it's okay.

The problem with feeding Jesse extra time is he tends to show early on in the game if he is going to play well or just mail it in and on the nights he mails it in, he never seems to turn it around in that game. Like Drai for example can have a very off-game and then all of a sudden have a brilliant shift and turn his game completely around, most good players have some capacity to self correct in the game, Jesse seems to lack that trait. Second thing is coaches who put more time into a player and let them try to learn from the more hard knock experience of just grinding bigger minutes, despite them continually coming up short, is you want to see that the player is learning something (is growing in some capacity), whereas McLellan has griped that Jesse keeps making the same mistakes continually.

Carolina might be a good fit for him, he seems like his head is in a much better place when he's surrounded by other Finns. I think Jesse is one of those players who is more in need of mentorship from a teammate who takes him under his wing more so than a coach, who realistically doesn't have the time to hold his hand through every single step. His extroverted personality makes me also ponder if acknowledgement/praise from his teammates matters more to him than acknowledgement from his de facto father figure (the coach) and to truly get the best out of Pulju will likely take a combined effort between all parties.

Pts per 60, especially in the context of players with limited minutes have been known to overstate a players ability and I don't know if it is right to assume he would replicate his point per 60 production with Drai or McDavid if given regular minutes with them. Your argument is you play Pulju with talent and he produces at a very respectable pace, my argument would be when Jesse is playing well he often gets bumped up to to play in the top 6 and that production is more representative of Jesse when he's having a good night, but just forcing big minutes with top linemates isn't likely to carry that same sustained level of production when it is subjected to the inconsistency that is present in Jesse's game, more over just getting more mins on his off-nights will only tank his Pts/60 numbers.

 

[GameChanger]

The problem with feeding Jesse extra time is he tends to show early on in the game if he is going to play well or just mail it in and on the nights he mails it in, he never seems to turn it around in that game. Like Drai for example can have a very off-game and then all of a sudden have a brilliant shift and turn his game completely around, most good players have some capacity to self correct in the game, Jesse seems to lack that trait. Second thing is coaches who put more time into a player and let them try to learn from the more hard knock experience of just grinding bigger minutes, despite them continually coming up short, is you want to see that the player is learning something (is growing in some capacity), whereas McLellan has griped that Jesse keeps making the same mistakes continually.

Carolina might be a good fit for him, he seems like his head is in a much better place when he's surrounded by other Finns. I think Jesse is one of those players who is more in need of mentorship from a teammate who takes him under his wing more so than a coach, who realistically doesn't have the time to hold his hand through every single step. His extroverted personality makes me also thinks acknowledgement/praise from his teammates matters more to him than acknowledgement from his de facto father figure (the coach) and to truly get the best out of Pulju will likely take a combined effort between all parties.

Pts per 60, especially in the context of players with limited minutes have been known to overstate a players ability and I don't know if it is right to assume he would replicate his point per 60 production with Drai or McDavid if given regular minutes with them. Your argument is you play Pulju with talent and he produces at a very respectable pace, my argument would be when Jesse is playing well he often gets bumped up to to play in the top 6 and that production is more representative of Jesse when he's having a good night, but just forcing big minutes with top linemates isn't likely to carry that same sustained level of production when it is subjected to the inconsistency that is present in Jesse's game.

A reasonable post and I'm sure it contains good points, though I don't quite agree with you everywhere. He did turn his game a few times last season, but you may still be mainly right in that and I understand the frustration. I believe a big part of that is mental, and he himself has the main role in turning that around, but I still believe and would like to say the way McLellan has handled him at times plays a part in that, too.

It's exaggeration to say a coach would need to hold his hand, but a similar approach as taken with quite a few similar prospects would've been better IMO. This doesn't take away the things Jesse himself needs to work with, but like I said 18/19-year-old prospects who succeed in the bottom6 with practically no PP time are pretty rare.

 

[ChicagoBullsFan]

I’d put it at 70% Todd, 30% on Jesse if forced to assign numbers. Jesse is a great big loveable kid. I sincerely believe he can be something very much akin to Rick Nash or Blake Wheeler. A huge, fast swooping winger adept at carrying the puck and backing off defenders. If all goes well, he’ll be a one-man guaranteed zone entry guy and those are hard to find. He has some bad lapses. He should as he’s only 20. Slow skates to the bench on line changes, some confusion as to which man to pick up. The point is that the talent, physical tools and work ethic (at least in-game, we dont know practice habits) are there. What irks me is how short the leash is on Jesse versus other wingers like Caggiula and Yamamoto. One small mistake, and it literally happened in the first game against New Jersey, and he’s benched. No PP time. How could his confidence stand up?? Obviously I dont know the kid personally but I just feel a more fatherly and encouraging approach would do wonders for him. Once Jesse gets into a routine and has to think less about his duties and about the coach breathing down his neck, I think he’d go nuclear. Instead, it appears Todd is more than willing to bust his ballz, run McDavid 28 minutes a night and let short-term desperation rule over doing the right thing. The right thing is to run Jesse more, ignore some of the warts, and prevent the club from trading Jesse for peanuts and watching him mature elsewhere.

How you explain that TSN NHL prospect analyst Craig Button has given a lot hard critic to Oilers rushing Puljujarvi's development and bring him too early to NHL.

Button is former NHL GM so he isn't some guy who talks bullshit without any competence.
It was Button who said Oilers doesn't have even clear development plan to Puljujarvi.

Even YLE sport's NHL reporter Tommi Seppälä wrote column last week and he mentioned in that column if Jesse doesn't show any progress during this season then it will mean that Oilers will face major changes in their management staff.

Chiarelli's ass is on the line already and McLellan is next.
Personally i won't be surprised if / when Chiarelli and McLellan will get fired of their jobs next offseason.

 

[frag2]

While I'm not keen on a young player flatly saying where he wants to be and that he needs that (kind of rubs me the wrong way) I will mention that Kailer Yamamoto has had a CONSTANT diet of top six and now top line and has 1 pt in 7 games with it which is actually astoundingly inept considering how much McD has been around production. I've said it before but Yama is often the cooler on his line and with him, a topline seems almost like its playing short handed. It isn't enough that he falls down and draws penalties.

It's not surprising you come into a thread to bring up a player you dont like.
Say what you want about Yamamoto but he doesn't get in the way of either Drai or McD unlike JP. As Leavins puts it, JP is always in the wrong place.

Everything seems to circle back at JP's inability to read and play the game the North American way. Still think they should just send him down and have him play top line duties down there. If he can't even get anything going, it's likely time to cut bait

 

[dustrock]

I'm fine with people talking about development when you see a player with elite offensive skills but they've yet to put together the defensive side of the game and say "yeah, this guy needs some more time".

The concern I have is that hockey has increasingly become a systems game, and Jesse does weird things with and without the puck. He's probably a benefit offensively in some ways if you let him have his chaos, but the game is so quick now I don't know how effective he can be.

There's only a few guys in the NHL like McDavid, Kane, Panarin, etc, who can break out of the system and really razzle dazzle. I'm not sure Jesse has ever shown that kind of skill set.

Otherwise, you score on the break, you learn the cycle and go to the net, and you hope to get on the PP.

Put him on PP2 and hope he figures it out I guess.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It's not surprising you come into a thread to bring up a player you dont like.
Say what you want about Yamamoto but he doesn't get in the way of either Drai or McD unlike JP. As Leavins puts it, JP is always in the wrong place.

Everything seems to circle back at JP's inability to read and play the game the North American way. Still think they should just send him down and have him play top line duties down there. If he can't even get anything going, it's likely time to cut bait

Its surprising that anybody thinks I should like an ineffective runt forward that doesn't bring anything other than an ability to fall down at the slightest bit of contact. Yama's NHL hilite package is hitting the deck. This is like watching poor mans Johnny Gaudreau with not anywhere near enough talent. Really I think its the only reason the Oilers wasted a top pick on the player was to try to reinvent the wheel like Calgary did. Except there is nothing in Yama's game that suggests Gaudreau. Other than his weight.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

At this point send Puljujarvi down until McLellan gets canned. He has absolutely no idea how to utilize this player and we’ll end up dealing him for a youngish #6 with zero upside like Scott Mayfield or Alex Petrovic.

 

[PinSeeker]

Its surprising that anybody thinks I should like an ineffective runt forward that doesn't bring anything other than an ability to fall down at the slightest bit of contact. Yama's NHL hilite package is hitting the deck. This is like watching poor mans Johnny Gaudreau with not anywhere near enough talent. Really I think its the only reason the Oilers wasted a top pick on the player was to try to reinvent the wheel like Calgary did. Except there is nothing in Yama's game that suggests Gaudreau. Other than his weight.

Ok then.
WRONG *in trump voice

 

[frag2]

Its surprising that anybody thinks I should like an ineffective runt forward that doesn't bring anything other than an ability to fall down at the slightest bit of contact. Yama's NHL hilite package is hitting the deck. This is like watching poor mans Johnny Gaudreau with not anywhere near enough talent. Really I think its the only reason the Oilers wasted a top pick on the player was to try to reinvent the wheel like Calgary did. Except there is nothing in Yama's game that suggests Gaudreau. Other than his weight.

Nobody is forcing you to like anyone. Hell, you championed POS Patrick O'Sulllivan for a while despite me saying he's a POS who gave up on the team.
Point is you come into a JP thread to rant about another player.

Neither are doing "well" but any sane person can tell that, despite JP playing better in the preseason, he's been the player that's lost more often than not

 

[McShogun99]

I’d send both JP and Yamamoto down for different reasons. JP to get prime minutes and Yamamoto to get physically stronger and used to playing against men.

 

[CycloneSweep]

I’d send both JP and Yamamoto down for different reasons. JP to get prime minutes and Yamamoto to get physically stronger and used to playing against men.

Are we making a trade to fill out the roster? Cause if you send them down then our right wing becomes right now Marody, Chiasson, Kassian

 

[Drivesaitl]

Nobody is forcing you to like anyone. Hell, you championed POS Patrick O'Sulllivan for a while despite me saying he's a POS who gave up on the team.
Point is you come into a JP thread to rant about another player.

Neither are doing "well" but any sane person can tell that, despite JP playing better in the preseason, he's been the player that's lost more often than not

haha, I feel like Guymez right now. Some of my posts were in the Caps game thread and now I'm here...Where am I? heh

I actually thought these posts were in the game preview thread.

But in anycse the rant started with another Puljujarvi scratch. We know this isn't going to have a good impact. The org is greasing this for a trade for nothing. That's what myself and a lot of other posters are sensing.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Ok then.
WRONG *in trump voice

From the poster that suggested the Oilers give up the 4th fewest Danger scoring chances in the NHl…

Um, OK.

Where do you disagree?

Would you seriously have drafted this player to play in the NHL and used a first round pick to do it? I don't see it.

 

[tellermine]

Even I am certain that Pulju is not what people thought he was or that he would be, I have to say.

Yes. Edmonton has failed to develop Pulju.
I am quite sure that with one year more in Finland and with proper personal and mental training we at least would see Pulju with more effort and attitude.

And when you have those physical atributes, effort and heart would make quite a diffrence. Maby not a top. 6 but good thirdliner.
Now he is not NHL player.

 

[PinSeeker]

From the poster that suggested the Oilers give up the 4th fewest Danger scoring chances in the NHl…

Um, OK.

Where do you disagree?

Would you seriously have drafted this player to play in the NHL and used a first round pick to do it? I don't see it.

JP thread, not a Yamo thread.

If this benching works, it will be a good move. If it doesn't, it is a horrible one. Either way it is on Todd. I will reserve my judgement until we see the result.

 

[Drivesaitl]

So talk about Pulju then. Kid makes a great play against Pens keeping the puck in on the first Draisaitl goal. It was a good read and he used his size and strength to keep that one in. Drai doesn't score that first goal without it. Its a huge goal to get us on track. Puljujarvi isn't even awarded with an assist and a game later he's not even dressing.

Theres this false narrative Pulju has been doing nothing in the games. He's the most helpful winger Drai has had all season. He's finding ways to battle for the puck, keep it in. The Drai line was fine against Pens and the previous games, why break it up?

Its like McLellan doesn't even want players he dislikes to have success.

 

[Former Referee 68]

Send him down and get him confidence...he needs to develop

 

[space321]

Send him down and get him confidence...he needs to develop

Send him down why? We don't have other wingers that's better than him. His confidence is shot because the dumbass coach benches him when he plays well.