Player Discussion Jesse Puljujärvi | His Mouth Contain His Tongue Only When He Eats Pizza

[Drivesaitl]

You sure are on fire today...

If You only had expanded Your choise of media, You would have noticed that many Canadian Oilers' fan root for Pulju too. And I am not talking about Simpson here...

On the basis of his NHL play Pulju has not warranted a lot of fans. I don't see his jersey flying off shelves here either.

The reality is you would be supporting this player religiously if he had a 20pts sophomore season. oh wait..

 

[CycloneSweep]

Yak 17 goals 48GP rookie season at age 18. -"Junk player, chased by bees, bust, low IQ, get rid of him"

Pulju 12 goals 65GP Age 19 "Good player, we would be ecstatic if"


I dunno. Isn't it a bit confusing why the double standard?

Except no one was shitting on 18 year old Yak?

 

[CupofOil]

Age 20 is a teenager? He's played two seasons in NA. He looks worse now than when he was 18.

Its "ridiculous fan expectation" to expect more than 20pts? Chia expected Puljujarvi would be one of the go to wingers here on this team, this past season.

Patience? lol, you got me there.

As far as Yak I had patience because he had shown an NHL level release and shot that is capable of beating goalies and to the tune of 17 goals in his first rookie season in a lockout shortened 48 game season. My view is that Eakins wrecked Yak. My view is that a continuation of a valid coach would have continued the positive trajectory of Nail that saw him be the highest scorer on his team in his rookie season. I guess I've missed where Pulju has done something like that, or much of anything.

Slepy? Gets scratched 40 games, benched several others, 56mins all season with Drasaitl after rocking the joint with him in the playoffs. Any sentient use of the player would have gone back to that configuration. its easy to question the use of Slepy this past season and it led to us no longer even having the player. I saw more game and compete from Slepy than I've seen from Pulju thus far. I expect to see more from Jesse but he hasn't delivered yet, hopefully he will.

He turned 20 after the season so yes, he was a teenager his first 2 seasons in the league just to put in perspective how young he still is.
Yes, you have shown no patience with this kid when you say stuff like he "still" hasn't figured out how to play at this level, a 19 year old kid coming into a new culture, yes that's lack of patience.

Yak was playing with skilled players the majority of his rookie season with #1 PP time. Not to mention that he was well adapted to the North American game so of course he was going to be more comfortable than Puljujarvi right off the bat. I bet that Pulju would have had around 17 goals had he played on the top PP unit all season.
With Yak, you still had a lot of time for him even after years of him chasing bees and accomplishing nothing.

Speak of never accomplishing anything. What has Slepy ever done at any level? He's never been a high scorer at any level, any international tournament so why all the faith in him but nothing for Puljujarvi who had a high pedigree?
Also interesting that you say that Slepy" rocked" in the playoffs with his 3 goals yet dislike Cagguila who also had 3 goals in that playoff run (all huge goals btw).
It just seems like inconsistent arguing to me where you latch on to certain players from the beginning and choose from the beginning that you don't like others. RNH vs. Gagner is another example of this.

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be some concerns about Pulju but he's still so young and hasn't been given a real opportunity to spread his offensive wings here so we really don't know what we have in him yet.
I wouldn't be concerned about his lack of compete, the entire team lacked compete especially as the games became more and more meaningless so it's hard for a kid to play balls out and drag the rest of the team with him, it was a toxic atmosphere last season and he got absorbed in it unfortunately.
I'm interested to see the influence the new coaches have on Mclellan and if he allows a little more leniency for young players or should I clarify, young Euro players.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I don’t think anyone was down on Yak after his rookie year.

You'd be wrong. People here were siding with Eakins scratching Yakupov 2/4 of the first games of the ensuing season. Then defending the player being benched. For some reason there was no shortage of Yak dislike here and some even in his rookie season.

Unlike Finnish or Swedish players we rarely get any contingent of Russians coming here to offer their specific and ongoing support of a national.

For the Finnish posters here the support of Pulju is unconditional. Which I can understand I guess given nationality but its worth noting that when there are claims in the thread of bias, that nationality is probably one.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

maybe because scratched and benched much of the season and only ever got 56mins with Drasaitl this season. could be something to do with that.

Maybe it had to do with the fact he just wasn’t very good when he played

 

[McFlyingV]

Theres nothing like a reply that goes on an entirely unrelated tangential spin while positing "irrational" instead of accepting that it was ridiculous for you to be specifically citing Pulju's "deft passing through traffic" as one of the two talent attributes you could see in his game.

Hey, from time to time we all make silly arguments. Citing Pulju's passing ability? seriously?

Ok answer me this then. Why is it Puljujarvi doesn't get the benefit of the doubt from you when all you did was defend Yak and blame the coaches when he was here? Yak never deserved a second of top 6 time. Not only did he show he couldn't create anything on his own but he also showed he was one of the biggest defensive liabilities in the league (something Puljujarvi is not).

The playmaking skills are there whether you want to refute them or not. I'll concede that Jesse needs to adapt to the NHL game further so that he gets his passes off quicker and handles pucks better, but he showed multiple times that he has great vision and playmaking, a skill that he also showed in spades against lower competition. The skill is there he just needs maturity and opportunity and playing him as a net front presence on the PP is not something that allows him to utilize his playmaking.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Except no one was ****ting on 18 year old Yak?

nobody except his headcoach benching, scratching him and putting him in the doghouse I guess.

Yak had hell here under Eakins. With no support, as a teenager in a team with zero coaching direction in which the head coach was clearly incompetent.

Anything Pulju experienced here pales compared to what Yak was subjected to by the worst coach in the history of this franchise.

 

[Drivesaitl]

He turned 20 after the season so yes, he was a teenager his first 2 seasons in the league just to put in perspective how young he still is.
Yes, you have shown no patience with this kid when you say stuff like he "still" hasn't figured out how to play at this level, a 19 year old kid coming into a new culture, yes that's lack of patience.

Yak was playing with skilled players the majority of his rookie season with #1 PP time. Not to mention that he was well adapted to the North American game so of course he was going to be more comfortable than Puljujarvi right off the bat. I bet that Pulju would have had around 17 goals had he played on the top PP unit all season.
With Yak, you still had a lot of time for him even after years of him chasing bees and accomplishing nothing.

Speak of never accomplishing anything. What has Slepy ever done at any level? He's never been a high scorer at any level, any international tournament so why all the faith in him but nothing for Puljujarvi who had a high pedigree?
Also interesting that you say that Slepy" rocked" in the playoffs with his 3 goals yet dislike Cagguila who also had 3 goals in that playoff run (all huge goals btw).
It just seems like inconsistent arguing to me where you latch on to certain players from the beginning and choose from the beginning that you don't like others. RNH vs. Gagner is another example of this.

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be some concerns about Pulju but he's still so young and hasn't been given a real opportunity to spread his offensive wings here so we really don't know what we have in him yet.
I wouldn't be concerned about his lack of compete, the entire team lacked compete especially as the games became more and more meaningless so it's hard for a kid to play balls out and drag the rest of the team with him, it was a toxic atmosphere last season and he got absorbed in it unfortunately.
I'm interested to see the influence the new coaches have on Mclellan and if he allows a little more leniency for young players or should I clarify, young Euro players.

I like players on the basis of what they are able to show early. If you look back if I have one specific bias its towards forwards that are able to demonstrate some production early. For forwards I see that as carving out a niche.

Of course I have less patience for forwards that were projected to be able to hit the ground running, and that were drafted on the basis of production potential, and that fell flat.

It could be this is just a fairly reasonable position to take.

The fact that Pulju had a higher pedigree, and required the Oilers to use their high (4) top pick is one thing that creates expectation. It did for yak in a weak draft year, it does for Pulju in a stronger draft year. Expectation exists, it isn't unnatural. Indeed its entirely disappointing what we are getting from this player during his ELC.

 

[MessierII]

You'd be wrong. People here were siding with Eakins scratching Yakupov 2/4 of the first games of the ensuing season. Then defending the player being benched. For some reason there was no shortage of Yak dislike here and some even in his rookie season.

Unlike Finnish or Swedish players we rarely get any contingent of Russians coming here to offer their specific and ongoing support of a national.

For the Finnish posters here the support of Pulju is unconditional. Which I can understand I guess given nationality but its worth noting that when there are claims in the thread of bias, that nationality is probably one.

I’m not going to defend anything Eakins did but there was very few people doubting Yak going into that season. Yes after camp people started asking questions but that summer no one was really down on Yak. He led rookies in goals and points.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I’m not going to defend anything Eakins did but there was very few people doubting Yak going into that season. Yes after camp people started asking questions but that summer no one was really down on Yak. He led rookies in goals and points.

His headcoach highly doubted him. You think that wasn't significant?

The bolded SHOULD be remarkable to you. The kid was a teenager, and because of Eakins, and his unwarranted benchings of Yakupov questions were being asked, people here were already doubting the player. The player that led the club in scoring in the previous season, as a rookie.

Ask yourself how off the charts that was. Yes, the fan response to Yakupov was much more critical. There were fans here blasting how he celebrated his goals in rookie season instead of considering the obvious benefit, that he was scoring goals at a .370G/G clip.

Similarly lots of fans here despised Gagner. Some are milking that trough in this thread, even calling out my former like of that player, who had 49pts in rookie season, while questioning why I'm not sold on a player that hasn't produced much of anything here.

 

[CupofOil]

I like players on the basis of what they are able to show early. If you look back if I have one specific bias its towards forwards that are able to demonstrate some production early. For forwards I see that as carving out a niche.

Of course I have less patience for forwards that were projected to be able to hit the ground running, and that were drafted on the basis of production potential, and that fell flat.

It could be this is just a fairly reasonable position to take.

The fact that Pulju had a higher pedigree, and required the Oilers to use their high (4) top pick is one thing that creates expectation. It did for yak in a weak draft year, it does for Pulju in a stronger draft year. Expectation exists, it isn't unnatural. Indeed its entirely disappointing what we are getting from this player during his ELC.

Expectations are fine as long as they are measured.
Personally, I didn't expect a ton from Puljujarvi in his first few seasons. It's a very difficult transition for Euro forwards coming from overseas. A lot of skilled Euro forwards don't translate their skills to North America right away. Laine is an extreme exception to the rule so my expectations have always been measured when it comes to Pulju. I admit to being a bit disappointed with him at times but it's natural to feel that way in the heat of the moment. Now that I've had time to reflect, I realize that he hasn't even budded yet and that patience is required.

What I've seen is an 18 year old who was all wide eyed being shuffled all throughout the lineup then rode pine for a while and sent to the AHL with zero skill to play with down there.
Then I saw a 19 year old who had a decent start to the season, showed some promise around Christmas or so then looked lost again as the entire team crumbled around him, no support from anybody. Some of that is on the player of course but last season was a disaster for just about everybody outside of a few so I would almost call last season a mulligan for a lot of players Pulju included. Start fresh this season with less expectations and hopefully more opportunity and hope to see what we really have in the player.

I do think we need to see at least some incremental improvement from him this season even though he's still very young and I think he'll get the opportunity to show what he's got. It's imperative that the Oilers get the most of their draftees spearheaded by Pulju. The talent is there, now it's time to harness it.

 

[Studz]

So much talent and potential in this player. You have to be blind not to see it.

A lot of posters will be looking foolish very soon.

 

[Drivesaitl]

^^Every season that Yak played for this org was a disaster. Where was that unconditional excuse for him, just saying. Its relevant as well that the last Oilers top pick here that did not work out.

The comments are merely based on what Pulju has done here. Which is very little.

Its fair commentary that I may not properly understand that Euro forwards may take longer here. I'm not really aware of any stat or metric clearly delineating significant developmental differential in this. If there is one would wonder why Euro players are so consistently high picks if what you stated is a concern. In top ten picks teams typically want players that can hit the ground running or in the case of D being solid prospects with huge potential.

Do you have any statistical information that Euro forwards take longer here to become productive players or is this an anecdotal view? I really don't know.

In anycase we see different things. Some here are saying that Pulju had a poor season because of the coaching. My take is that Pulju, through lack of consistency, focus, and dedication lacked how he could be ideally deployed. To the degree that I often thought the Coaching staff were trying to insulate him a bit knowing full well that he wasn't ready for more topsix or more PP (all of which he got)

 

[MessierII]

His headcoach highly doubted him. You think that wasn't significant?

You originally referenced his rookie year. In his rookie year his coach used him well. Gave him tons of PP time and ice time in key situations. This is what I originally responded to. Fans were pretty much universally excited about the player. You’ve now moved the goalposts and only want to discuss Yaks sophomore year under Dallas Eakins. Rightfully so people started questioning him at that time as it’s reasonable to question Pulijaarvi at this time. It’s unreasonable to completely right off any player when they are teenagers.

 

[Drivesaitl]

So much talent and potential in this player. You have to be blind not to see it.

A lot of posters will be looking foolish very soon.

Yet in 15yrs of posting here there hasn't been one player I wasn't sold on that turned out to be great or to make me eat crow.

I do lol at the constant posts that one would "have to be blind" not to see the immense talent (sarcasm) that Pulju has demonstrated in the NHL in his 28NHL pts across 2 seasons and 93GP.

Again if one had known nothing about this players pre draft pedigree you'd wonder how he was even a first rounder.

 

[Drivesaitl]

You originally referenced his rookie year. In his rookie year his coach used him well. Gave him tons of PP time and ice time in key situations. This is what I originally responded to. Fans were pretty much universally excited about the player. You’ve now moved the goalposts and only want to discuss Yaks sophomore year under Dallas Eakins. Rightfully so people started questioning him at that time as it’s reasonable to question Pulijaarvi at this time. It’s unreasonable to completely right off any player when they are teenagers.

You stated that people were already questioning Yakupov in camp. That doesn't strike you as extremely curious after he led the team in goal scoring the season before as a rookie? You aren't wrong either. That errant criticism did occur. But you should note how strange it was that the criticism was occurring contiguous to him having an outstanding rookie campaign.

I'm not writing off the player. Show one post where I did that.

 

[CupofOil]

^^Every season that Yak played for this org was a disaster. Where was that unconditional excuse for him, just saying. Its relevant as well that the last Oilers top pick here that did not work out.

The comments are merely based on what Pulju has done here. Which is very little.

Its fair commentary that I may not properly understand that Euro forwards may take longer here. I'm not really aware of any stat or metric clearly delineating significant developmental differential in this. If there is one would wonder why Euro players are so consistently high picks if what you stated is a concern. In top ten picks teams typically want players that can hit the ground running or in the case of D being solid prospects with huge potential.

Do you have any statistical information that Euro forwards take longer here to become productive players or is this an anecdotal view? I really don't know.

In anycase we see different things. Some here are saying that Pulju had a poor season because of the coaching. My take is that Pulju, through lack of consistency, focus, and dedication lacked how he could be ideally deployed. To the degree that I often thought the Coaching staff were trying to insulate him a bit knowing full well that he wasn't ready for more topsix or more PP (all of which he got)

Off the top of my head, the Sedins and Filip Forsberg took a while to figure it out. Tarasenko and Kuznetsov marinated overseas for several years before making the NHL jump and I'm sure there are others that I can't think of right now (maybe somebody else can help me out?).

I do know that the list of Euro forwards who made the jump from overseas to the NHL right after they were drafted and succeeded right away is very small and is basically reserved for Hall of Famers. It's just common sense to understand what a difficult transition it is for a teenager from a different culture and different style of game and rink size to North America so I think Pulju should get some benefit of the doubt here.

 

[MessierII]

You stated that people were already questioning Yakupov in camp. That doesn't strike you as extremely curious after he led the team in goal scoring the season before as a rookie?

No not really. Being a #1 pick puts you in a whole new world of expectations.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Off the top of my head, the Sedins and Filip Forsberg took a while to figure it out. Tarasenko and Kuznetsov marinated overseas for several years before making the NHL jump and I'm sure there are others that I can't think of right now (maybe somebody else can help me out?).

I do know that the list of Euro forwards who made the jump from overseas to the NHL right after they were drafted and succeeded right away is very small and is basically reserved for Hall of Famers. It's just common sense to understand what a difficult transition it is for a teenager from a different culture and different style of game and rink size to North America so I think Pulju should get some benefit of the doubt here.

In fairness, as I suspected, your comments are anecdotal. You do not have knowledge of, or substantiation of your position that Euro forwards innately take much longer to develop here.

Finally, and due to your claim (unsubstantiated) I consider if poor form for you to then state "just common sense" in regards to something that isn't even a substantiated known.

You stated a position which is not corroborated by evidence, and then you infer its just commonsense to see it your way.

 

[Drivesaitl]

No not really. Being a #1 pick puts you in a whole new world of expectations.

So that none of my comments here about a #4 pick in a hot draft should be considered unreasonable. Its been commonly stated that the Yak draft year was a weak draft, and the only reason he was ever #1. Perhaps its unfortunate he was the top pick. Possibly better for him if he had not been.

 

[CornKicker]

^^Every season that Yak played for this org was a disaster. Where was that unconditional excuse for him, just saying. Its relevant as well that the last Oilers top pick here that did not work out.

The comments are merely based on what Pulju has done here. Which is very little.

Its fair commentary that I may not properly understand that Euro forwards may take longer here. I'm not really aware of any stat or metric clearly delineating significant developmental differential in this. If there is one would wonder why Euro players are so consistently high picks if what you stated is a concern. In top ten picks teams typically want players that can hit the ground running or in the case of D being solid prospects with huge potential.

Do you have any statistical information that Euro forwards take longer here to become productive players or is this an anecdotal view? I really don't know.

In anycase we see different things. Some here are saying that Pulju had a poor season because of the coaching. My take is that Pulju, through lack of consistency, focus, and dedication lacked how he could be ideally deployed. To the degree that I often thought the Coaching staff were trying to insulate him a bit knowing full well that he wasn't ready for more topsix or more PP (all of which he got)

I think Mikko Rantanen is a very comparable player, although id argue JP has higher upside.

MR played 9 games and got sent to the AHL, (which could have happened with JP just later)
Then he put up 38pts in 75 games which is respectable but he did get to play most of the season.
after that he put up 80+ pts in his true 2nd season, which this season will be for JP.

 

[MessierII]

So that none of my comments here about a #4 pick in a hot draft should be considered unreasonable. Its been commonly stated that the Yak draft year was a weak draft, and the only reason he was ever #1. Perhaps its unfortunate he was the top pick. Possibly better for him if he had not been.

For sure it would have. There’s busts at 2-3-4 anywhere in the draft. Flat out busts at #1 like Yakupov are extremely rare. He’s the only outright bust in the 2000’s and is arguably the biggest bust of all time. Least NHL games by any #1 pick ever. Unless he returns again in 5 years and puts together a string of good seasons he’ll go down in the history books for all the wrong reasons.

 

[MoneyGuy]

I think Pulju will prove Draisaitl et al wrong. I just hope he’s wearing an Oiler uniform when it happens.

 

[CupofOil]

In fairness, as I suspected, your comments are anecdotal. You do not have knowledge of, or substantiation of your position that Euro forwards innately take much longer to develop here.

Finally, and due to your claim (unsubstantiated) I consider if poor form for you to then state "just common sense" in regards to something that isn't even a substantiated known.

You stated a position which is not corroborated by evidence, and then you infer its just commonsense to see it your way.

I gave you like 5 examples of highly drafted Euro forwards who didn't succeed in the NHL right after being drafted. Rantanen is another one as mentioned above.

Honestly, if you're too stubborn to move off your stance regardless of any evidence presented to you then we're wasting our time. Surely you can see that you're being difficult here, don't you?

I'll just close with this. Yes, it's common sense to know that it's tougher on Euros coming over to North America integrating into different culture and game style than it is for Euros who have been on this side of the pond prior to being drafted or North American players who have lived here their entire life. It's common sense and I'm sorry if you can't see it.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I gave you like 5 examples of highly drafted Euro forwards who didn't succeed in the NHL right after being drafted. Rantanen is another one as mentioned above.

Honestly, if you're too stubborn to move off your stance regardless of any evidence presented to you then we're wasting our time. Surely you can see that you're being difficult here, don't you?

I'll just close with this. Yes, it's common sense to know that it's tougher on Euros coming over to North America integrating into different culture and game style than it is for Euros who have been on this side of the pond prior to being drafted or North American players who have lived here their entire life. It's common sense and I'm sorry if you can't see it.

I shouldn't dignify this with a reply.

NHL scouting makes no such differentiation, neither should you. Again if it did we wouldn't see so many high Euro picks up top would we? In a tight cap league considerable contractual benefit of high picks is accrued during ECL. The gravy time. Nearly every contender seeks to get that and players that can hit the ground running in top picks.

Do you think it would really be difficult for me to find 5 examples of Euro players that hit the NHL much better than Pulju. No, it wouldn't at all. Which is why I stated anecdotal examples are essentially meaningless. ACTUAL stats on NHL impacting Euro forward production adversely would be interesting. No search on Google revealed that kind of data being collected. Maybe its out there, it would be substantiation, but that you think 5 hand picked examples proves your point is laughable.

If you can't differentiate between substantiated knowns and anecdotal information as it relates to proof you may not want to be referencing "common sense" so often in reply. If you do you'll get, and deserve, this nature of response.