Player Discussion Jesse Puljujärvi 4th Overall 2016 Draft. Part V: Called Up 11/10/17

[Mcnotloilersfan]

Hey Mods, there's something weird going on with HF. This RNH thread has a title about Puljujarvi...

 

[nabob]

Five years is in no way a meaningful sample size. Years 1-3 of that sample size saw RNH getting every single possible offensive opportunity playing with the teams best offensive players.

Last 2 years where he's been relegated to 2nd line duty is much more indicative of the type of player he is today, and the type of production we can expect out of him. Those two years among centers he's 66th in assists and 72nd in points. Limit it to just this year and he's 61st in assists and 63rd in points. That is 3rd line production coming from a player getting 2nd line offensive minutes combined with getting buried defensively. Even acknowledging that there are probably a handful of players on the NHL stats page listed as a C who played some (or all) at wing, he's still at best one of the worst 2nd line centers in the league.

Black hole? In a vacuum compared to the entire league. No. But considering his position and usage. Absolutely.

That's cute and totally wrong. Considering his position and usuage he produced up to par, even in a poor season for him. Your obvious hate for the player is getting ridiculous.

 

[Spawn]

That's cute and totally wrong. Considering his position and usuage he produced up to par, even in a poor season for him. Your obvious hate for the player is getting ridiculous.

3rd line production from a center playing 2nd line at ES and on the PP while being one of the top 30 most expensive centers in the league and a former 1st overall pick. While being a complete drain defensively.

Yep. Up to par.

 

[Aceboogie]

Hey Mods, there's something weird going on with HF. This RNH thread has a title about Puljujarvi...

every thread is an RNH thread now. Draisaitl contract, Trade rumor thread both are. Amazing how much can be posted about a pretty similar subject. I get its summer and things are boring but instead of discuss success of Klefbom/talbot/Larsson its RNH non stop

 

[MessierII]

every thread is an RNH thread now. Draisaitl contract, Trade rumor thread both are. Amazing how much can be posted about a pretty similar subject. I get its summer and things are boring but instead of discuss success of Klefbom/talbot/Larsson its RNH non stop

He's the last of the polarizing 6 million dollar kids. Some people still defend his poor play, others want him gone. He's the only player a large number of posters completely disagree on.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

He's the last of the polarizing 6 million dollar kids. Some people still defend his poor play, others want him gone. He's the only player a large number of posters completely disagree on.

Really? Not Lucic, Maroon, Draisaitl (is he a product of Hall and McDavid). Then there's Nurse, Russell, etc. He's just the one that's been here the longest and has the 1st overall label attached to him.

 

[Spawn]

Really? Not Lucic, Maroon, Draisaitl (is he a product of Hall and McDavid). Then there's Nurse, Russell, etc. He's just the one that's been here the longest and has the 1st overall label attached to him.

We haven't had long enough to develop such strong opinions on those guys yet I think. We've all spent a lot of time with Nuge here. It's crazy to look at the turnover on this team, but with Eberle now gone Nuge has more than twice as many games as an Oiler than anyone else on the roster. Our opinions are strong and for the most part steadfast/stubborn regarding him. Don't think many of us are at that point with the other players you've mentioned.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

We haven't had long enough to develop such strong opinions on those guys yet I think. We've all spent a lot of time with Nuge here. It's crazy to look at the turnover on this team, but with Eberle now gone Nuge has more than twice as many games as an Oiler than anyone else on the roster. Our opinions are strong and for the most part steadfast/stubborn regarding him. Don't think many of us are at that point with the other players you've mentioned.

If Nuge is dealt then there will surely be a new whipping boy. I just hope that he finally takes that next step this season. That way whether we keep or deal him he will be better than what he has been these last 2 seasons so his value to the team as well as to other teams goes up.

 

[tiger_80]

I honestly think this is his last year as the Oiler. Once McDavid extension kicks in, RNH will be gone and replaced by a veteran center free agent on a budget contract. He better put together a solid season, so the Oilers can actually get something of value for him.

 

[nexttothemoon]

Jokinen and/or Strome are already cheaper replacements for RNH. They can both contribute some offense and play as well (or as poorly) defensively as RNH for less than half the price of Nuge.

I actually hope they do play RNH on the wing to see if that can stimulate some offense in him and try to get that Gretzky-lite vision and intelligence going again. It's almost as if Eakin's influence is still rolling around in his head and he's out of step with what made him such a promising player when he broke into the league.

 

[ijuka]

OT:

I noticed that there really wasn't a whole lot of discussion about a 18th of August Finnish interview of Puljujärvi by Yle here: https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-9783295

Some key things I loosely translated:

- Good summer, trained healthy, good condition.

- Feeling better, wants to gain a spot in NHL team, now knows what to expect.

- Issues last season: Not enough power, lacking back checking, skating, shot not as one would like.

- Power, speed have been gained, skills have been practiced. Confident in the overall package he's managed to work on this summer. Says he needs to be faster.

- Needs to learn the language better. Helps in many ways.

- Front office patient, happy with last season, good if he takes one step forward this season.

- Wants to be in top 9

- Happy about Jussi but also reminds that he doesn't want to just defer to him and also needs to try to manage with his own English abilities.

/OT

Now let's get back to the RNH discussion.

 

[MessierII]

OT:

I noticed that there really wasn't a whole lot of discussion about a 18th of August Finnish interview of Puljujärvi by Yle here: https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-9783295

Some key things I loosely translated:

- Good summer, trained healthy, good condition.

- Feeling better, wants to gain a spot in NHL team, now knows what to expect.

- Issues last season: Not enough power, lacking back checking, skating, shot not as one would like.

- Power, speed have been gained, skills have been practiced. Confident in the overall package he's managed to work on this summer. Says he needs to be faster.

- Needs to learn the language better. Helps in many ways.

- Front office patient, happy with last season, good if he takes one step forward this season.

- Wants to be in top 9

- Happy about Jussi but also reminds that he doesn't want to just defer to him and also needs to try to manage with his own English abilities.

/OT

Now let's get back to the RNH discussion.

Good to hear. I think the kid has the work ethic to get where he needs to go. He's by far the most interesting player to watch for in camp.

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

OT:

I noticed that there really wasn't a whole lot of discussion about a 18th of August Finnish interview of Puljujärvi by Yle here: https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-9783295

Some key things I loosely translated:

- Good summer, trained healthy, good condition.

- Feeling better, wants to gain a spot in NHL team, now knows what to expect.

- Issues last season: Not enough power, lacking back checking, skating, shot not as one would like.

- Power, speed have been gained, skills have been practiced. Confident in the overall package he's managed to work on this summer. Says he needs to be faster.

- Needs to learn the language better. Helps in many ways.

- Front office patient, happy with last season, good if he takes one step forward this season.

- Wants to be in top 9

- Happy about Jussi but also reminds that he doesn't want to just defer to him and also needs to try to manage with his own English abilities.

/OT

Now let's get back to the RNH discussion.

Thanks for this. I still think there is a star player in the making here. I have a feeling he and Yamamoto will be big contributors in the 2018-19 season. If we don't win the cup this year, we have it next year.

 

[Wewillrise]

OT:

I noticed that there really wasn't a whole lot of discussion about a 18th of August Finnish interview of Puljujärvi by Yle here: https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-9783295

Some key things I loosely translated:

- Good summer, trained healthy, good condition.

- Feeling better, wants to gain a spot in NHL team, now knows what to expect.

- Issues last season: Not enough power, lacking back checking, skating, shot not as one would like.

- Power, speed have been gained, skills have been practiced. Confident in the overall package he's managed to work on this summer. Says he needs to be faster.

- Needs to learn the language better. Helps in many ways.

- Front office patient, happy with last season, good if he takes one step forward this season.

- Wants to be in top 9

- Happy about Jussi but also reminds that he doesn't want to just defer to him and also needs to try to manage with his own English abilities.

/OT

Now let's get back to the RNH discussion.

Very optimistic about him this season. If he can take a step in puck protection, skating and shot he will have a successful year.

 

[McShogun99]

He should have had the 9 games last year, got sent to the AHL. Then get called up to be in the room for the playoff run. It's rare to have a high end prospect that can be sent to the AHL. We should have taken advantage of that.

 

[shoop]

If Nuge is dealt then there will surely be a new whipping boy. I just hope that he finally takes that next step this season. That way whether we keep or deal him he will be better than what he has been these last 2 seasons so his value to the team as well as to other teams goes up.

Enough with the whipping boy line. Put up an honest comment. There are a lot of people on here whose only response when people criticize someone they like has created a 'whipping boy'.

Nuge has been in the league for six years. There really shouldn't be a next step to take. Blame horrible management if you will, but eventually its got to be on the player. I suspect Nuge is still on the team because he puts in an honest effort almost all the time. Unlike Hall, Eberle, Schultz.

We all want to see a maximum return on player contracts. Doesn't mean that calling out a player who isn't providing a fair return on his contract is a target of unfair criticism.

 

[Aceboogie]

He's the last of the polarizing 6 million dollar kids. Some people still defend his poor play, others want him gone. He's the only player a large number of posters completely disagree on.

Everything thats been said on RNH has already been said, Ive yet to see anything new argument from either side in the last 3 years. The RNH thread should be 1 post and just a long summary of all the arguments. Basically like a FAQ section but for Frequently Used Arguments. Its like every thread without fail someone will mention RNH in whatever context and then it starts the snowball of the same arguments over again that people were just having in another thread

I got no problem discussing RNH in the context of Puljujarvi because I actually do feel if LD was dropped to 2c and RNH to 3c, we could essentially create a stacked 3rd line with JJ-RNH-JP that faces easier comp (with LD soaking up tougher minutes). Gives JP to playmaking and vets to lean on

Sidenote: I wish people still looked at RNH like people look at Landeskog friggen 35 point player with bricks for brains and people still are in love with him for some reason, ditto for Mackinnon

 

[nabob]

Enough with the whipping boy line. Put up an honest comment. There are a lot of people on here whose only response when people criticize someone they like has created a 'whipping boy'.

Nuge has been in the league for six years. There really shouldn't be a next step to take. Blame horrible management if you will, but eventually its got to be on the player. I suspect Nuge is still on the team because he puts in an honest effort almost all the time. Unlike Hall, Eberle, Schultz.

We all want to see a maximum return on player contracts. Doesn't mean that calling out a player who isn't providing a fair return on his contract is a target of unfair criticism.

People have unrealistic expectations for players with the roles they have been put in, if players dont meet those expectations then posters harp about it incessantly. Nuge is a prime example of this. He is one of the last players in the last 6 years that anyone should whip, he puts in a honest effort and plays to his abilities, sure he has his physical limitations and a large contract, but the amount of **** that has been piled on him by posters like Spawn is ridiculous. They disappear when he has an awesome stretch of games but are the first ones to call out a single turn over or key lost faceoff and carry on about it for a week. Players like Schultz, Gagner and others over the years have written their own tickets out of town with obvious lack of effort and unwillingness to buy in. Nuge isnt one of them.

I really hope fans dont turn on Puljujarvi, he seems like a genuinely great young man with a passion for the game and a crazy amount of raw talent.

 

[nabob]

Everything thats been said on RNH has already been said, Ive yet to see anything new argument from either side in the last 3 years. The RNH thread should be 1 post and just a long summary of all the arguments. Basically like a FAQ section but for Frequently Used Arguments. Its like every thread without fail someone will mention RNH in whatever context and then it starts the snowball of the same arguments over again that people were just having in another thread

I got no problem discussing RNH in the context of Puljujarvi because I actually do feel if LD was dropped to 2c and RNH to 3c, we could essentially create a stacked 3rd line with JJ-RNH-JP that faces easier comp (with LD soaking up tougher minutes). Gives JP to playmaking and vets to lean on

Sidenote: I wish people still looked at RNH like people look at Landeskog friggen 35 point player with bricks for brains and people still are in love with him for some reason, ditto for Mackinnon

It would be nice if Drai could play more tough minutes and become a better player in his own zone. He often got caught out of position or looking confused. Hopefully something that comes with experience, it doe for some players like Cogliano, but doesnt for others like Gagner. I think this is one area than JP is strong in.

 

[CupofOil]

People have unrealistic expectations for players with the roles they have been put in, if players dont meet those expectations then posters harp about it incessantly. Nuge is a prime example of this. He is one of the last players in the last 6 years that anyone should whip, he puts in a honest effort and plays to his abilities, sure he has his physical limitations and a large contract, but the amount of **** that has been piled on him by posters like Spawn is ridiculous. They disappear when he has an awesome stretch of games but are the first ones to call out a single turn over or key lost faceoff and carry on about it for a week. Players like Schultz, Gagner and others over the years have written their own tickets out of town with obvious lack of effort and unwillingness to buy in. Nuge isnt one of them.

I really hope fans dont turn on Puljujarvi, he seems like a genuinely great young man with a passion for the game and a crazy amount of raw talent.

Gagner? I don't buy that for a minute. He was all effort and did exactly as the coaches wanted him to do but much like Nuge, the offensive creativity got sapped out of his game and was overwhelmed at times against tougher matchups because the coaches put him in positions that he was ill equipped to handle, too much too soon. Some of that is on the coach and some of that is on the player.

Some posters do go overboard with their criticism and there are some posters who ignore the positives in a particular players' game once they get an idea in their head that the player sucks no matter what he does but Nuge does deserve criticism for his performance the last 2 seasons, there's no doubt about it.
People can manipulate the numbers all they want but 43 points for what is supposed to be an offensive 2nd line center is just not good enough and the eye test bore that out as well. He did show some positive signs towards the end of the season and in the playoffs. We need to see more of that this season or he will be sold for pennies on the dollar in the offseason and a waste of what should be a good asset.

To get this back on track to Puljujarvi, I'm glad he acknowledged doesn't want to defer to exclusively speaking Finnish to Jokinen. That was a minor worry of mine with them bringing in Jokinen, that Pulju would get too comfortable speaking his native language with his countryman.

 

[nabob]

Gagner? I don't buy that for a minute. He was all effort and did exactly as the coaches wanted him to do but much like Nuge, the offensive creativity got sapped out of his game and was overwhelmed at times against tougher matchups because the coaches put him in positions that he was ill equipped to handle, too much too soon. Some of that is on the coach and some of that is on the player.

Some posters do go overboard with their criticism and there are some posters who ignore the positives in a particular players' game once they get an idea in their head that the player sucks no matter what he does but Nuge does deserve criticism for his performance the last 2 seasons, there's no doubt about it.
People can manipulate the numbers all they want but 43 points for what is supposed to be an offensive 2nd line center is just not good enough and the eye test bore that out as well. He did show some positive signs towards the end of the season and in the playoffs. We need to see more of that this season or he will be sold for pennies on the dollar in the offseason and a waste of what should be a good asset.

To get this back on track to Puljujarvi, I'm glad he acknowledged doesn't want to defer to exclusively speaking Finnish to Jokinen. That was a minor worry of mine with them bringing in Jokinen, that Pulju would get too comfortable speaking his native language with his countryman.

Gagner's effort level dove off a cliff in his last season here. He found his mojo a bit in Columbus last year and earned himself another nice payday. There were so many instances of him avoiding contact and refusing to engage on his own side of the ice. There is a reason why he was dealt as a cap space dump multiple times. To say the same about Nuge would be wrong.

 

[nexttothemoon]

Someone mentioned Yamamoto and Puljujarvi... I think those 2 will make the RW side one of the deepest areas on the team... and likely allow more flexibility to move Draisaitl to C permanently as well.

It won't happen overnight obviously but depth is slowly building on the team and hopefully the salary cap rises to help keep that depth in the org.

Maroon-McDavid-Yamamoto
Lucic-Draisaitl-Puljujarvi
Jokinen-Strome-Caggiula
Kassian-Letestu-Slepyshev

I could see the lineup looking something like that in 1-2 years time.

Maroon could be gone soon and I could see another LW brought in to replace him who's similar... physical but with some decent hands... although Lucic could yet slide up and play that role on the 1st line again as well.

Jokinen could even re-sign if he plays well and he likes it here (or a similar cheapish 3rd line replacement brought in). Same goes for Strome when it's time to re-sign him.

Bottom line is likely one of the best in the NHL with all 3 players being able to move into the top 9 depending on injuries and when someone else in the top 9 is slumping.

 

[McNuge]

Someone mentioned Yamamoto and Puljujarvi... I think those 2 will make the RW side one of the deepest areas on the team... and likely allow more flexibility to move Draisaitl to C permanently as well.

It won't happen overnight obviously but depth is slowly building on the team and hopefully the salary cap rises to help keep that depth in the org.

Maroon-McDavid-Yamamoto
Lucic-Draisaitl-Puljujarvi
Jokinen-Strome-Caggiula
Kassian-Letestu-Slepyshev

I could see the lineup looking something like that in 1-2 years time.

Maroon could be gone soon and I could see another LW brought in to replace him who's similar... physical but with some decent hands... although Lucic could yet slide up and play that role on the 1st line again as well.

Jokinen could even re-sign if he plays well and he likes it here (or a similar cheapish 3rd line replacement brought in). Same goes for Strome when it's time to re-sign him.

Bottom line is likely one of the best in the NHL with all 3 players being able to move into the top 9 depending on injuries and when someone else in the top 9 is slumping.

Agreeing with all of this. Although I think in the long run we see Puljujarvi with McDavid and Yamamoto with Drai and Lucic. I don't see Puljujarvi as much of a cycle player where as Yamamoto is so damn shifty and can just dart around in all the space Drai and Lucic make for him.

But either way I am more than happy with both of these players. I really think Puljujarvi is going to establish himself either this year or next. And Yamamoto is a guy who oozes skill and has a motor that is on go go go all the time. If he can over come his size in the NHL this guy will be able to play with one hell of a center man.

 

[shoop]

Agreeing with all of this. Although I think in the long run we see Puljujarvi with McDavid and Yamamoto with Drai and Lucic. I don't see Puljujarvi as much of a cycle player where as Yamamoto is so damn shifty and can just dart around in all the space Drai and Lucic make for him.

I like your thinking on that. Time will tell on Puljujarvi's development. If he uses his size and can play the defender role for McDavid to the extent Tikkanen did with Gretzky then the Oilers can play a speed guy on the left side with McDavid - Puljujarvi.

Lucic-Draisaitl-Yamamoto could be a very solid line. Time will tell if Yamamoto can adapt to the NHL game. He's got to put on some weight for sure. He's 30-some pounds lighter than Theo Fleury was. Nevermind his height, but 148 pounds is way too light to be a regular in the NHL.

 

[Panda Bear]

I think most people here who criticize players don't genuinely understand what it's like to play sports at a high level.